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OfflineDroneLore
what is knowing?

Registered: 01/04/09
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Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ?
    #10339199 - 05/14/09 05:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Is anyone aware of a chemical / biological reason for LSD's extreme potency? I find it odd that two drugs with such similar molecular structures, mechanism of action, and subjective experiences have such a large gap in the required dosage.

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InvisibleZippy
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Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 472
Loc: Santa Cruz
Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: DroneLore]
    #10339230 - 05/14/09 05:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DroneLore said:
I find it odd that two drugs with such similar molecular structures, mechanism of action, and subjective experiences have such a large gap in the required dosage.




Because they AREN'T similar in molecular structure, mechanism of action, and experience :shrug:


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Even a fish could stay out of trouble if it would just learn to keep its mouth shut.

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OfflineJustice_Fish
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: Zippy]
    #10339235 - 05/14/09 05:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:werd:

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Invisiblerchtyp
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Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 363
Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: DroneLore]
    #10339271 - 05/14/09 05:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

LSD:


Psilocybin:


Psilocin:


THC:



I don't see how they're similar.. but to take a shot in the dark, maybe through evolution we've adapted to slight cube use where LSD wasn't even a chemical until 1938. But I could be, and probably am, completely wrong.

- rch


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Offlinepiracetam
bioanalytical chemist
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: Justice_Fish]
    #10339273 - 05/14/09 05:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

affinity for certain receptors, namely 5HT2A.
as a ligand, the molecule binds with higher affinity to the various receptor subtypes.

rchtyp, thc doesn't belong with those molecules...it lacks the indole group


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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Invisiblerchtyp
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: piracetam]
    #10339303 - 05/14/09 06:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

piracetam said:
rchtyp, thc doesn't belong with those molecules...it lacks the indole group




I was just showing the difference between the molecules because he said they were similar. My knowledge of chemistry is nonexistent.


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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: rchtyp]
    #10339319 - 05/14/09 06:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

n.p.

as zippy aluded, structure has everything to do with it: structure determines function. it's the central theme of biochemistry


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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OfflineDroneLore
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Registered: 01/04/09
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: piracetam]
    #10339501 - 05/14/09 06:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

LSD and the mushroom alkaloids bind to 5-HT receptors, how are they not similar in mechanism of action?

The bottom third of the LSD molecule is similar to the bottom of the psilocybin molecule which partially accounts for receptor affinity.

piracetam at least made an attempt to answer my question instead of telling my i was wrong and making no effort to eradicate my ignorance, but still only begged the question: why does LSD bind with greater affinity?

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Invisiblechampinhom
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Registered: 03/06/09
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: DroneLore]
    #10339883 - 05/14/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Who says LSD is more potent? This is a very open question.


--------------------
My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said.

Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking.
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“People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing

Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P.  Silocybin

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OfflineDroneLore
what is knowing?

Registered: 01/04/09
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Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: champinhom]
    #10339944 - 05/14/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I mean potent in the dryest sense of the word. A quarter of a milligram would be a strong acid trip. A quarter of a milligram of psilocin probably wouldn't do anything.

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Offlinepiracetam
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Re: Why is LSD so much more potent than psilocybin / psilocin ? [Re: champinhom]
    #10339984 - 05/14/09 08:11 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

it is.
potency doesn't necessarily mean intensity, it just refers to the amount of a substance required to be physiologically active.

and the difference of the LSD molecule, besides structurally, is in its electrostatics...and try to think in terms of 3D, not planar like those molecular diagrams. LSD is a stereo-compound, as it has a chiral carbon.
in simple terms, think of a lock-and-key model of binding.


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"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is just poetry, imagination." ~Max Planck

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