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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341067 - 05/14/09 11:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kada said: I was talking about the fact that you have to argue with everyone until they see your point of view and accept it, but when they don't you just label them as ignorant.
I used the term "pathetic" to describe a defeatist attitude in which even good news is met with paranoia. That's because it's a shitty way to live your life. I stand by that judgment.
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I look at everything with logic, and logically i saw that getting in a long discussion about this with you was gong to go nowhere. I was just trying to say i didn't want to waste my time any more than i have on this subject in this specific thread. You have your way of thinking, and i have mine. I respect yours, where you seem to not respect mine.
I'm sorry if I have a hard time seeing the knee-jerk paranoid reactions against government as "logical."
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Prisoner#1 said: rational thinkers know the government would never abuse power, they know government wouldnt fins some way to side step the constitution, never in a million years would a president sign into law a bill that would violate your rights, they know better because they're more afraid of us than we are of them
/sarcasm
Rational thinkers have an eye for subtlety and nuance, and that statements like "Government is good" or "Government is bad" are too simplistic to describe reality.
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Kada
Asha'man
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341109 - 05/14/09 11:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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>I used the term "pathetic" to describe a defeatist attitude in which even good news is met with paranoia. That's because it's a shitty way to live your life. I stand by that judgment.
So because i would rather wait and see change to believe it, rather than hear talk about it and believe it i am wrong and stupid? Then when i don't want to argue with someone who is very very irrational, i am now pathetic? Also the way i live my life is a shitty one? Without calling you a giant fucking asshole, I'm just going to back away slowly because someone talking this retarded doesn't deserve a response other than one filled with insults right back at them. I'm not in that type of mood, so I'm just going to move on.
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341114 - 05/14/09 11:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Silversoul said:
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Prisoner#1 said: there's several states that do no prohibit the mentally ill from voting including idaho and illinois, the rest of the states do and as of yet, drug courts were still inder the judicial branch of government
As they will continue to be. The attorney general for my state is expanding the drug court program as well, but that doesn't mean it won't be under the judicial branch.
so the funding for the 'drug court' currently comes from SAMHSA
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what's the change you're seeing? none?
Closing Guantamo
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/2009_05_06_Closing_Guantanamo_-_or_not/
and if he actually manages to close it...
it's just because he's spent $400mil to build a new facility or he's taken over a new one
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/30/AR2009043004068.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/23/montana-town-wants-jail-new-guantanamo-bay/
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setting new standards of government transparency
got off to a great start didnt he http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/hawaiian-officials-admit http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics/2008-12/msg01990.html
and so far he's managed to show us this pile of nothing http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39381prs20090415.html http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/13/obama-photo-release-would-endanger-troops/
all about some transparency in government aint he
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moving towards a more sensible drug policy.
still very open to debate
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While you're at it, I'd like to see evidence that the raids are still continuing.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/news/first-medical-marijuana-raid-by-dea-under-obama-administration
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/25/BA5B16N9LR.DTL
I'm aware of the ones that happened before and shortly after Holder's announcement. I was looking for something more recent. Perhaps within the last month? Anyway, let me know if you hear about any more.
oh, so the one just 2 months ago, a couple months AFTER holders announcement isnt suitable, it's not like Bush raided 20 per day, he closed 40 in 8 years.... this is the point I've been making about you, the facts are slapping yo in the face but you still deny it, you still believe him to be the chosen one
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Kada]
#10341121 - 05/14/09 11:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Kada said: So because i would rather wait and see change to believe it, rather than hear talk about it and believe it i am wrong and stupid?
I'm fine with waiting and seeing. I'm not buying into it wholesale either. But that's a hell of a lot different than indulging in paranoid fantasies about what you think is going to happen. I'm not calling you stupid. I'm saying your worldview is a little too simplistic.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341149 - 05/15/09 12:01 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Silversoul said:
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Kada said: I was talking about the fact that you have to argue with everyone until they see your point of view and accept it, but when they don't you just label them as ignorant.
I used the term "pathetic" to describe a defeatist attitude in which even good news is met with paranoia. That's because it's a shitty way to live your life. I stand by that judgment.
I hate to break it to you but to say 'government has erred in the past but theres a new guy that says he'll change everything, I believe him so I'll stand by that no matter what evidence to the contrary is presented is in fact a defeatist attitude, it says you've given up on questioning goverment and it's motive even though the only change made so far is the players of the inner circle... congress hasnt changed, nor has their gam yet you stopped looking deeper
or could it be that you're doing exactly what you accused seuss of doing except for the part about giving the benefit of the doubt or praise to the one in office that you disliked
> You're pathetic because you complain about the Obama >administration even when it does something right. > Even with Bush, I was willing to give him credit on those rare >occasions when he was.
since you cant prove any of your claims in this thread, show us the posts where you;ve praised bush for a job well done
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FuzedBox
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,724
Loc: FL
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341164 - 05/15/09 12:04 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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FuzedBox said: But who will balance the power if one of the more radical democrats decides to completely undermine what's set in stone and switch things up? Less radical democrats? Phff, democrats almost always back themselves up, just for the sake of the radical in question being in the same party. I don't know what can happen, and I'm not making assumptions; But I do see a single branch government becoming a possibility.
it's not democrats vs republicans, I wish it were so easy, it's lawmakers vs. the people because the agenda is ultimately the same, increase power for them selves, prevent their removal from office by any means neccsary
Oh, I know party differences and conflicts aren't much of the picture. All I did was point out what I consider a bad democratic trait, which left unchecked, can cause all sorts of mayhem in how how government functions. They don't have the power now to change up our whole Constitution or our system of balances and checks, but if they grow motivated enough by the wrong reasons, I can see a big snowball start to roll.
-------------------- “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong” -Voltaire
Edited by FuzedBox (05/15/09 12:07 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341170 - 05/15/09 12:05 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Silversoul said:
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Prisoner#1 said: there's several states that do no prohibit the mentally ill from voting including idaho and illinois, the rest of the states do and as of yet, drug courts were still inder the judicial branch of government
As they will continue to be. The attorney general for my state is expanding the drug court program as well, but that doesn't mean it won't be under the judicial branch.
so the funding for the 'drug court' currently comes from SAMHSA
Since the Judicial system does not collect taxes, it's only logical that its funding would come from another branch of government.
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what's the change you're seeing? none?
Closing Guantamo
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/opinion/editorials/view/2009_05_06_Closing_Guantanamo_-_or_not/
and if he actually manages to close it...
it's just because he's spent $400mil to build a new facility or he's taken over a new one
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/30/AR2009043004068.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/23/montana-town-wants-jail-new-guantanamo-bay/
The issue with Guantanamo is not that it's a prison. It's that human rights violations were going on there. If they're building a prison within the United States that accords with the Geneva convention, that's a big step up.
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setting new standards of government transparency
got off to a great start didnt he http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/hawaiian-officials-admit http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics/2008-12/msg01990.html
You gotta be fucking kidding me. Come back when you have a reputable news source. Your fucking tabloids mean nothing.
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and so far he's managed to show us this pile of nothing http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39381prs20090415.html http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/13/obama-photo-release-would-endanger-troops/
I agree he hasn't gone far enough, just as I agree that increasing the use of drug courts isn't far enough. But I don't believe in making the perfect the enemy of the good. The fact that the torture memos did get released is a big step in itself.
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all about some transparency in government aint he
Incomparably more so than the last administration.
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While you're at it, I'd like to see evidence that the raids are still continuing.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/news/first-medical-marijuana-raid-by-dea-under-obama-administration
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/25/BA5B16N9LR.DTL
I'm aware of the ones that happened before and shortly after Holder's announcement. I was looking for something more recent. Perhaps within the last month? Anyway, let me know if you hear about any more.
oh, so the one just 2 months ago, a couple months AFTER holders announcement isnt suitable, it's not like Bush raided 20 per day, he closed 40 in 8 years.... this is the point I've been making about you, the facts are slapping yo in the face but you still deny it, you still believe him to be the chosen one
The latter one was about an incident that happened one week after Holder's announcement, not a couple months. That's still not good, but there don't appear to have been any since then.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: FuzedBox]
#10341179 - 05/15/09 12:07 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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too many democrats, the country goes to shit too many republicans, the country goes to shit too many politicians, the country goes to shit too many lawyers in office, the country goes to shit too much government, no change in the results
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341182 - 05/15/09 12:08 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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If by paranoid fantasies you are talking about my very first post, i was just speaking while looking at it in a extreme way. I was saying that it wouldn't surprise me if they tried something like what i said. They hide things all the time from us, and sneak things in where they can. I was just bringing up the fact that they could do something like this if given the chance, therefore showing people that maybe they should wait to see before they get all excited. They could turn this around to be actually worse for us than the labeled "War on drugs".
-------------------- ~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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FuzedBox
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,724
Loc: FL
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341188 - 05/15/09 12:10 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I dunno about the too much government part, I think that we could be a whole lot worse off than now. It doesn't help that the government already feels that we're all helpless, stupid drones. Their nanny-state motives could turn into something much worse. Probably won't happen, but can.
-------------------- “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong” -Voltaire
Edited by FuzedBox (05/15/09 12:11 AM)
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tpihkal
Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 2,809
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341199 - 05/15/09 12:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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exciting news, but we're no further now than before
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341201 - 05/15/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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They can stand up there all day and make announcements ,but untill it gets written down somewhere it`s just hot air......unless I missed something and now we dont have to pass or repeal laws ,they jusy do what they want ?
Sounds like exspanding government and making more laws to me. Sounds like we will have even more courts /judges and laws....I see no good there.........
It does not mean shit untill it`s in writing,which it will probably never be ,but that will stop the millions in funding,then they will tax me more to fund some crack heads rehab or makin him pay for 10,000 dollars worth of rehab to support all these new employees......
-------------------- I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341216 - 05/15/09 12:16 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: I hate to break it to you but to say 'government has erred in the past but theres a new guy that says he'll change everything, I believe him so I'll stand by that no matter what evidence to the contrary is presented is in fact a defeatist attitude, it says you've given up on questioning goverment and it's motive even though the only change made so far is the players of the inner circle... congress hasnt changed, nor has their gam yet you stopped looking deeper
I'm not expecting miracles from Obama. I expect him to clean up much of the mess he's inherited, and in that area, I'd give him a B+ so far.
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or could it be that you're doing exactly what you accused seuss of doing except for the part about giving the benefit of the doubt or praise to the one in office that you disliked
> You're pathetic because you complain about the Obama >administration even when it does something right. > Even with Bush, I was willing to give him credit on those rare >occasions when he was.
since you cant prove any of your claims in this thread, show us the posts where you;ve praised bush for a job well done
Link
From a dark time in my life when almost considered supporting him. My political views have changed since then, but my willingness to give people a fair shake has not.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341248 - 05/15/09 12:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Silversoul said:
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Silversoul said:
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Prisoner#1 said: there's several states that do no prohibit the mentally ill from voting including idaho and illinois, the rest of the states do and as of yet, drug courts were still inder the judicial branch of government
As they will continue to be. The attorney general for my state is expanding the drug court program as well, but that doesn't mean it won't be under the judicial branch.
so the funding for the 'drug court' currently comes from SAMHSA
Since the Judicial system does not collect taxes, it's only logical that its funding would come from another branch of government.
so SAMHSA collects taxes? doesnt the court system collect fines? arent those like taxes on stupidity and criminal behavior?
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The issue with Guantanamo is not that it's a prison. It's that human rights violations were going on there. If they're building a prison within the United States that accords with the Geneva convention, that's a big step up.
guess what, they go on in regular prisons too, county jails, government administrative offices, the work place, etc...
where's our change?
that's right, $400 million to build a new detention center
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You gotta be fucking kidding me. Come back when you have a reputable news source. Your fucking tabloids mean nothing.
you've yet to back up a single claim in any possible way and you're trash talking a news source just because it doesnt support the views of the obama administration, it didnt catapult the man to the white house like the major media outlets
back up your claims
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I agree he hasn't gone far enough, just as I agree that increasing the use of drug courts isn't far enough.
so you support the lose of basic human rights and the loss of the rights of citizenship, you believe he should push harder to make this a nation of felons
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all about some transparency in government aint he
Incomparably more so than the last administration.
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The latter one was about an incident that happened one week after Holder's announcement, not a couple months. That's still not good, but there don't appear to have been any since then.
still, that's proof that obama is a big fat liar, you still cant face the facts
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Entropymancer
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341262 - 05/15/09 12:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think Pris and Seuss really said everything that needed to be said within the first 40-some posts.
@ the 'change we can believe in' zealots.
All the change I see here is for the worse.
Hooray for managing to dupe the average drug user into supporting yet another turn for the worse in the national drug policy!
Rose-colored glasses make the world all purty
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 4,401
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Entropymancer]
#10341281 - 05/15/09 12:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats all it has become now ....keep the masses satiated and do what they want with no repricussions.
A few glorious speaches and press report has managed to once again sway the foolish masses.
No law passed ,no law repealed and a bunch of money to spend on new government employees........ Is that not what they called the brainwashing in 1984....rehabilitation
-------------------- I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!
Edited by unretarded (05/15/09 12:28 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10341299 - 05/15/09 12:30 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: so SAMHSA collects taxes? doesnt the court system collect fines? arent those like taxes on stupidity and criminal behavior?
As far as I know, fines go back to the government budget office, which is under the legislative branch, as is SAMHSA.
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guess what, they go on in regular prisons too, county jails, government administrative offices, the work place, etc...
where's our change?
that's right, $400 million to build a new detention center
The point of the articles was that there might be issues with trying to get them into regular prisons. They're why they're considering(but haven't decided upon) building that new prison.
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you've yet to back up a single claim in any possible way and you're trash talking a news source just because it doesnt support the views of the obama administration, it didnt catapult the man to the white house like the major media outlets
back up your claims
Which claims would you like me to back up?
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I agree he hasn't gone far enough, just as I agree that increasing the use of drug courts isn't far enough.
so you support the lose of basic human rights and the loss of the rights of citizenship, you believe he should push harder to make this a nation of felons
You're impossible to argue with because you misinterpret every goddamn thing. By saying the drug courts don't go far enough, I meant that I'd like to see drug policy become even more progressive than that.
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The latter one was about an incident that happened one week after Holder's announcement, not a couple months. That's still not good, but there don't appear to have been any since then.
still, that's proof that obama is a big fat liar, you still cant face the facts
It's proof that what Holder ordered didn't get done right away. I don't know how that screw-up happened and neither do you. If it continues to happen, then I'll consider it something more than a bureaucratic breakdown of communication.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341348 - 05/15/09 12:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Anyway, I just want to say I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh to anyone earlier in this thread. It just pushes my buttons when I see knee-jerk reactions for or against someone, and over-simplistic worldviews with no room for subtlety. I suppose if something pushes my buttons more than anything, it's excessive pessimism, particularly of the paranoid, conspiratorial variety. I wasted a lot of years of my life thinking that way, and seeing it all over this forum set me off.
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Knifey Mcstab
Sir Prancelot Brainfire
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 4,846
Loc: PNW
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Silversoul]
#10341368 - 05/15/09 12:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well I agree with you to a point, there's no use being constantly pessimistic about things without trying to do anything about it. At the same time, politicians seem to follow a fairly predictable pattern and there's not much your average American can do to change that.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Druz Czar Says "END WAR ON DRUGS! [Re: Knifey Mcstab]
#10341386 - 05/15/09 12:47 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mandrake said: At the same time, politicians seem to follow a fairly predictable pattern and there's not much your average American can do to change that.
Well, the pattern is called bureaucracy, and it's easy to be cynical when you don't have an appreciation for it. I try to judge politicians within realistic standards, and not by the standard of what my ideal utopia would look like.
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