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 dansta
stanley
Registered: 10/15/02
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 Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's 
#1031461 - 11/07/02 04:49 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hope you can help.
This is my mates first grow and he's done two cakes of PR's and birthed them before they started pinning and cold dunked them. They are in the terrarium now at about 60F and get misted and fanned 3 times a day. Small cottony lumps have appeared on the surface but no pins after 6 days. I read the FAQ and understand that this could to be to do with too much humidity and more likley too much heat but as I said it's only 60F and he has cut down on the amount he was spraying.
Casing
He's also cased two cakes in straight verm as per the Hongus tek and after two days when the mycelium started to poke through he also put it in the terrarium. Where the mycelium is now poking through there are little groups of tiny spikey strands of mycelium. Are these pins???? I should say its been in the terrarium for 4 days.
I'd be grateful if any of you could reasure my or put forward any suggestions.
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 zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: dansta]
#1031464 - 11/07/02 04:51 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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60F is way too cold, you want mid 70's
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dansta
stanley
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 102
Loc: Anywhere
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: zeta]
#1031478 - 11/07/02 05:05 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I realise this but in the PF tek it says that lower temps. are not a problem. Its getting towards winter here in the U.K. and it's a little hard to keep the temp up.
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"Sir, I think you are drunk"
"Yes my dear and tomorrow I will be sober but you will still be ugly"
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Theta
TranscendentalExplorer
Registered: 10/29/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: dansta]
#1031613 - 11/07/02 06:35 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's my understanding that while 60F may not kill it, growth will be retarded. Bump the temp by 10 degrees.
Get a hydrometer - find out what's going on with your humidity. Because they are not pinning, and you think they should be, cut back on the misting and increase gas exchange. How are you set for lighting?
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dansta
stanley
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 102
Loc: Anywhere
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: Theta]
#1031644 - 11/07/02 06:52 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks Theta.
I'm going to try to bump up the temp as you suggest.
My jars were actully incubated at the same temp and I understood that you're supposed to drop the temp to iinitiate pinning. If I now increase tempt will I be causing more problems? As for the lighting, my aquarium is situated in front of a huge window so gets whatever daylight there is.
Do you think that spikey strands of mycelium on the casing could be Pins?
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"Sir, I think you are drunk"
"Yes my dear and tomorrow I will be sober but you will still be ugly"
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InMyVersion
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: dansta]
#1031651 - 11/07/02 06:55 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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The other folks are 100% correct, 60F is way too cold for these guys. Colonization should take place around 80 - 85F, and pinning/fruiting should take place at 75F. 75F is the best possible temp to fruit PR's at.
Also, casing in straight verm is a bad idea for PR's. They do not do well in straight verm. Use straight wet perlite (not soggy, not dry). Also, cover it up tight with foil or plastic wrap. Don't mist at all, and fan only when fruits are about to open. This will ensure good sporulation. PR's actually do not respond well to misting or fanning.
Use about 1 inch wet perlite, crumble your cakes on top, put about 1/8 inch wet perlite on top covered evenly, pat it down just a bit, covered it up. In wet perlite, covered tightly, no misting or fanning, 75F, you should have pins in 7 to 10 days. You will be cropping in about 14 days. If you do not want spores do not fan at all, and potency will be increased. If you do want spores fan twice a day just before the veil breaks.
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XiC_clone
Calls Shots 'Round Here
Registered: 08/27/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1031667 - 11/07/02 07:06 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where did this guy come from??
-XiC
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Bilge
longtimenoC
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: XiC_clone]
#1031713 - 11/07/02 07:37 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes, what's up with a straight perlite casing? anyone else ever heard of this good or bad?
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InMyVersion
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
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Loc: NE USA
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: Bilge]
#1031914 - 11/07/02 09:25 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Straight perlite casings work well for strains like PR. I use a 28qt sterlite container, put about 1 inch wet perlite on the bottom, crumble 4 pint size colonized PR cakes over top evenly, pat it down lightly, put about 1/8 inch wet perlite over that evenly, cover it up tight with foil or plastic wrap, put it in the light, 75F, no misting or fanning, 3 to 4 days you'll see the mycelia fuzzing up a bit over the 1/8" layer of perlite, 7 to 10 days - give or take a few, you'll have pins, 14 days give or take you will have a nice flush... I usually pull close to 1 oz. dried per flush from this method... If you don't believe me, colonize 4 pint jars with PR strain (mine are originally from SW) and give it a shot... I think you will be pleasently surprised. I have found that this same method using vermiculite gives much lower yields.
Oh yeah, and if you want spores, 2 or 3 days after your pins start you should start fanning. The first 5 or 6 generations you will get spores regardless... After that your prints will go from dark to medium to light to none in another 3 or 4 generations... That's if you never fan. Not fanning however really increases the potency in PR's, especially in aborts and fatties. I usually do half fanned/half not per batch.
Oh, and sorry to jump right into the conversation. I know I'm a newbie on this forum, but I'm not a newbie to cultivation. I have a good bit of experience and have been a member of other forums for a long time.
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socratesmind
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1031920 - 11/07/02 09:27 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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also per TMC they say casing layer should never be < 1" :/ unless your substr8 level is very very small i guess u could use smaller casing layer. but perlite?
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Bilge
longtimenoC
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1031925 - 11/07/02 09:30 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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very interesting. have you tried 50/50+ or any other such casing material? i'm wondering how straight perlite would compare to 50/50+.
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Theta
TranscendentalExplorer
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1031950 - 11/07/02 09:40 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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In reply to:
crumble 4 pint size colonized PR cakes over top evenly
You are talking about standard PF type cakes here right?
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InMyVersion
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: Bilge]
#1032006 - 11/07/02 10:00 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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50/50 works nicely too, but I'm too lazy. Besides even though you may get about 1/10 more out of 50/50, you save 10 times as much prep time and money doing straight perlite, meaning you can do 10 times as much in the same amount of time at the same cost. Go pick up a $2 bag of perlite from W*Mart and give it a shot.
And yes I am referring to standard pf tek style jars, just with pints instead of halves. You can use halves though it's whatever you prefer. For me it just seems easier to cook and innoculate 32 pints in my 941 rather than 64 halves.
I should mention too that I use store-bought pre-packaged rye flour, not brown rice flour. I do 2:1 vermiculite:rye-flour and 200ml water per cup of flour.
Although today I am switching to a batch of 40 pint jars of straight rye seed, no vermiculite. I bought an over abundance of rye seed to do my mex-a's and I figured the rye seed would offer more nutrients for the cubes anyway. I suspect slightly longer colonization times but increased yields and overall health using the straight perlite casing method.
Lastly, someone posted to give your casing layer at least 1". That's too much for straight perlite. I wouldn't do more than 1/4" with the straight perlite method.
Anyway, give it a shot, it's worth the few $1's, and it's really a cheap, easy, no hassle method that gives excellent results.
Edited by InMyVersion (11/07/02 10:02 AM)
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canid
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: Bilge]
#1032026 - 11/07/02 10:10 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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i have used straight perlite in a medium sized casing before.
The idea was, since a perlite layer in the bottom of my terarium produced too high of an RH, and a descent sized separate perlite dish inside the terarium would take up valuable realestate leaving me without enought room for my small casings (King's Teriaki bowls are the shitz), i decided to try it.
it did keep the humidity up appreciably and the smaller casings fruited alright (50, 70 grams wet each), but i neglected to mist the large casing and it dried out. uppon trying to revive it i got it too wet and once it dried back to a normal level it came down with a case of the green.
think the moral was that it would have worked had i misted enough to keep the casing moist (or been a litter smarter at the time).
--------------------
 Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
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Edited by concretefeet (11/07/02 10:11 AM)
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dog
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Registered: 06/20/02
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1032031 - 11/07/02 10:12 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds interesting. In an eariler post you stated that perlite casings work well on strains like PR's. What other strains have you tried this with? What were your results?
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InMyVersion
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
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Loc: NE USA
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: dog]
#1032081 - 11/07/02 10:35 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quite a few, most notably - Mazatapec's produce very similar results, B+ does good, Eq's, Treasure Coast isn't too bad either except you get larger but fewer fruits, and TC's tend to have much lighter spore deposits. From what I've experienced most cubensis strains do quite well with this method.
You do have to be careful about the amount of water... If it is drying out you do not have it covered tightly or you are fanning too much. Perlite tends to hold a very specific amount of water, and the rest will fall to the bottom. It's actually OK to put a little too much water in because it will just sit on the bottom. Just make sure there are no puddles on top where you are crumbling your cakes. I usually put my perlite into an 8 quart bag (I buy 20 pound bags of perlite), then dump some water in and shake it up real good, then I dump it out into a big rubbermaid/sterlite container, and slowly add more water while mixing. Scrape your perlite from side to side. If you see puddles forming where the perlite was scraped from on the bottom, add just enough more perlite to barely soak it up, mix it all up evenly, and then spread it out flat. You want it so that if you scoop up a handful, no more than 1 drop of water falls from your hand every few seconds. I guess I could figure out the formula. Next casing I do I'll try to remember to measure how much I use and let you guys know. It's not too hard to figure out though if you try it once or twice.
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canid
irregular meat sprocket
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1032090 - 11/07/02 10:39 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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holly sh!t, 20 lb of perlite is a lot more than it sounds like.
--------------------
Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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InMyVersion
Stranger
Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 306
Loc: NE USA
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1032099 - 11/07/02 10:44 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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One more thing... I've noticed that perlite really tends to resist contams more than vermiculite. Like I said with my casings I'm pretty lazy, and sloppy too. I sit on my couch with my big scary into-everything dog sniffing in the casing the whole time while I mix the perlite and crumble the cakes and put it all in the container, I don't wash my hands, nothing at that point is sterile, I cover it up with aluminum foil very tightly, and I toss it in a room and keep it at 75. Even when green shows up on the perlite, it's usually contained in a small area and doesn't spread easily, and the whole thing fruits anyway. Any that do fruit in any contam'd areas I just wash off with water after harvest and then dry with a drying agent quickly. Also, the foil covering, is put on in 2 layers. Since the roll of foil is not wide enough to cover the whole thing. I cover 3/4 lengthwise and wrap the foil hanging over the edges up under the lip in a big bulky clump tightly. Then I take an equally sized piece of foil and do the same thing on the other side, so that it is overlapping the first piece. Basically the foil overlaps 50% of the top of the container in the middle. I don't tape this closed or anything, just pull it tight and get the edges tightly closed. If you do it right you would be able to slide a ruler in between the two peices of foil and see it from inside the container. This seems to allow for the perfect amount of gas exchange without fanning and keeping high humidity as well.
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InMyVersion
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: canid]
#1032111 - 11/07/02 10:48 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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concrete: yeah 20 pounds is a lot, but buying that size bulk is really cheap. I get a 20 pound bag for $15. I only get an 8 quart bag from W*Mart for like $2.xx. It would take like 25 - 50 bags of the 8 quarts to equal 1 of the 20 pound bags. I buy vermiculite the same way, for about the same price - which that too is a hell of a lot at 20 pounds. I usually go through about four 20 pound bags of each per month. Cheap, easy, and effective is my style 
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Zero7a1
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Re: Cakes & Casings Help Please - no Pinning PR's [Re: InMyVersion]
#1032619 - 11/07/02 01:20 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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where did you get a big bag of rye?
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