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Invisibleshroomzey
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Making The Case For Open Borders
    #10319010 - 05/10/09 08:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

http://reason.tv/video/show/769.html

"Riley walks through the history of German, Irish, and Mexican migrants in rich and compelling detail, deflating nativist hype while also complicating easy narratives about the United States as a mythic destination for all the wretched of the world."



I just got done watching this video.. and feel quite blown away.  I've never really focused on immigration as a political issue of concern... but after stumbling upon this... I definitely feel enlightened.  It is interesting to me that I never related the connection between goods and labor as the same.  And now that I do, the free market just makes that much more sense.


--------------------

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OfflineCoolMojo
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10320483 - 05/11/09 01:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Open borders are a great idea...just not a good idea for the US the way things are run now.

We have far to many social programs to afford to take in a unlimited number of immigrants. Free health care, food, shelter, education. Open borders works wonderfully when there is no safety net, you want to come here and work hard, improver the life of yourself and your family? Let me be the first to welcome you...but those that don't want to work hard and just want a free ride are getting it. When there was an influx of of imigrants in the past, those that where lazy free loaders soon starved to death, those that worked hard prospered. A very important difference between open borders of today and of yesterday.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CoolMojo]
    #10320831 - 05/11/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

> but those that don't want to work hard and just want a free ride are getting it.

Even worse, those that just want to make money to send back home, removing money from the economy, rather than actually immigrating and adopting a new home.


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Invisibleshroomzey
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Seuss]
    #10322329 - 05/11/09 12:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes I agree, the welfare system in general isn't helping at all with this issue.  But I find it interesting how the current day American mostly ignores the immigration issues of the past, I admittedly as well.  When history is in context... the answer is cut and dry.

Edited by shroomzey (05/11/09 01:06 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10322845 - 05/11/09 02:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If the borders were so wide open in the thirties how come FDR sent a bunch a Jews on a boat to drift at sea rather than let them in?  Anybody who thinks there was a wide open border policy in the past is ignorant indeed.  They had quotas.  And wetbacks.


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OfflineCowFarmer
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10323371 - 05/11/09 05:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shroomzey said:
Yes I agree, the welfare system in general isn't helping at all with this issue.  But I find it interesting how the current day American mostly ignores the immigration issues of the past, I admittedly as well.  When history is in context... the answer is cut and dry.



I will assume you are reffering to a typical border debate _i_llusion that in the past "America, the colonies, any past incarnation of N. America was somehow more open to immigration?


If you're not then sorry, but if you are:

This is a funny argument from open border advocates that we are the "meltingpot" for those seeking "streets paved with gold"

What those people often neglect to mention is the fact that America has infact been empirically anti-immigration, yes good sir BELIEVE IT.

Lets start off with those of reddish color skin, Indians, natives, what ever float your boat. Guess what those people weren't to keen on having white devils come. Some were set agaisnt it from the beggining,others 'matured' to that feeling after some abuse.


After the Indians, Europeans. French, Denmark, British, Spain all fought agaisnt each other. Each one of them trying to close "their border" against the other.


N.America becomes 13 colonies: The protestants were _definvitely_ dead set agaisnt those damn Catholics coming.

You get an idea right? Let's fast forward a bit and think about the Federalists and later Whig parties. Decidedly the Whigs were against Irish-immigrants,infact they campaigned on it " keep America for Americans."


Etc.. Etc... Etc...

I won't bore you any more, just wanted to make a point that there is NO empirical evidence for a high level of acceptance for immigrants, infact I would say just the opposite for the reasons stated above.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CoolMojo]
    #10323487 - 05/11/09 05:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CoolMojo said:
Open borders are a great idea...





I suppose the reintroduction of Leprosy, Small Pox, Yellow Fever
and shit is a great idea too because those and a host of other
diseases are introduced each year when illegals enter the
country without going through the normal checks...

Quote:

Open borders works wonderfully when there is no safety net, you want to come here and work hard, improver the life of yourself and your family?




but shouldnt it be a 2 way street because I'd love to go to
mexico and work hard at building a drug empire, killing
thousands of people each year along the borders but the laws of
mexico prohibit me from starting a business or owning land, cant
grow 9000 acres of marijuana if I cant own the land

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10323502 - 05/11/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shroomzey said:
Yes I agree, the welfare system in general isn't helping at all with this issue.  But I find it interesting how the current day American mostly ignores the immigration issues of the past, I admittedly as well.  When history is in context... the answer is cut and dry.





to the contrary, I'm more than willing to school you about the
past immigration issues, seems the open borders policy that the
first nations had led to more than 6 million murdered through
acts of war, terrorism and biological warfare, we should have
burned those damned boats with all the men, women and children
before they hit plymouth rock


open borders have never worked

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OfflineCowFarmer
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10323547 - 05/11/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

CoolMojo said:
Open borders are a great idea...





I suppose the reintroduction of Leprosy, Small Pox, Yellow Fever
and shit is a great idea too because those and a host of other
diseases are introduced each year when illegals enter the
country without going through the normal checks...

Quote:

Open borders works wonderfully when there is no safety net, you want to come here and work hard, improver the life of yourself and your family?




but shouldnt it be a 2 way street because I'd love to go to
mexico and work hard at building a drug empire, killing
thousands of people each year along the borders but the laws of
mexico prohibit me from starting a business or owning land, cant
grow 9000 acres of marijuana if I cant own the land





Last time I checked small pox is thought to be irradiated except for 2 or 3 vials kept by the US and Russia. Are you advocating that we check each potential immigrant with a clothe-hanger under the eyes like in the old days on liberty island? And yellow fever is transferred through mosquitoes.

That said I understand your argument. Don't bring more sick people into the US. Think about this though, if a US citizen has one of those diseases you mention should they be allowed into the US again?

Also in Mexico I am pretty sure that it is in fact already illegal to build a drug empire _and/or_ kill thousands of people. As it is in the US.

Show me somewhere where it is legal to do one or both of those things and then your 2 way street argument will be golden.

Believe it or not but having foreigners buy thousand's of acres of land in your country is not good policy. It's a great way to have your territory annexed. I highly doubt that the US allows Russians and Chinese from buying large chunks of US land continuously. I get frowned alot because of this fact, but I understand it too. Just as we love our country so do those that reside in their own. It's a bitch but you can't win them all.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CowFarmer]
    #10323751 - 05/11/09 06:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CowFarmer said:
Last time I checked small pox is thought to be irradiated except for 2 or 3 vials kept by the US and Russia. Are you advocating that we check each potential immigrant with a clothe-hanger under the eyes like in the old days on liberty island? And yellow fever is transferred through mosquitoes.






well the WHO agrees but apparently they could be wrong, the US
has stockpiled enough of the vaccine to inoculate every man
woman and child in this country, if there want a fear of the
disease why would they need so much of this serum and yes, I
advocate a battery of test on anyone entering the country
whether a citizen or not, you can see with this new hog flu just
how efficiently a disease can spread around the world, illegals
have been bringing in their share including TB, virtually
eradicated in the US until around 2002 when there was a serious
spike, we now have Chagas, with leprosy there have been only 900
reported cases in the US in 50 years, now over 7000 cases in the
last 4 years...


so while we believe that smallpox was eradicated 30 years ago it
may still be in existance in laces other than the CDC, you know,
the place that sent Saddam his biological weapons and sends
other diseases to anyone with the right papers

test everyone entering this country, those that enter illegally
should be assumed as a biological threat and destroyed by fire


Quote:

the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[10] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been completely eradicated.[11]

In March 2004 smallpox scabs were found tucked inside an envelope in a book on Civil War medicine in Santa Fe, New Mexico.[55] The envelope was labeled as containing the scabs and listed the names of the patients they came from.







Quote:

if a US citizen has one of those diseases you mention should they be allowed into the US again?




if a US citizen has one of those diseases he wouldnt be admitted
to the country he was flying to so he'd be stuck here getting
treatment or simply dying in quarantine

Quote:

Also in Mexico I am pretty sure that it is in fact already illegal to build a drug empire _and/or_ kill thousands of people. As it is in the US.





nothing is truely illegal in latin america, if it were dont you
think the mxican police would have nipped it in the bud before
it became the border war that it has

Quote:

Show me somewhere where it is legal to do one or both of those things and then your 2 way street argument will be golden.




Article 27 states,
article 27, Constitution of the United Mexican States

"Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have
the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their
appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines
or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners,
provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to
consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind
themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in
matters relating thereunto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance
with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the
Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership
of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the
frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the
country."

if you really read the constitution, you'll see just how you'll
never be a mexican regardless of what you do so you'll never own
the land, they'll always take it back

Quote:

]Believe it or not but having foreigners buy thousand's of acres of land in your country is not good policy. It's a great way to have your territory annexed. I highly doubt that the US allows Russians and Chinese from buying large chunks of US land continuously.





really? because the US has no laws preventing citizens of other
countries from buying land, in fact many of the defaulted
'mortgage crisis' loans were given to illegals, there were signs
in front of banks advertising that they give loans if the person
could provide a TIN number from the IRS

http://www.alipac.us/article1676.html


simply buying up 1 millions acres wont allow china to annex it to be a part of china, that's an absurd notion

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OfflineCowFarmer
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10323996 - 05/11/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

CowFarmer said:
Last time I checked small pox is thought to be irradiated except for 2 or 3 vials kept by the US and Russia. Are you advocating that we check each potential immigrant with a clothe-hanger under the eyes like in the old days on liberty island? And yellow fever is transferred through mosquitoes.






well the WHO agrees but apparently they could be wrong, the US
has stockpiled enough of the vaccine to inoculate every man
woman and child in this country, if there want a fear of the
disease why would they need so much of this serum


 
Why? Because the USSR had it too! Come on man, I figure your old enough to remember the cold war? I only read about it but from what I understand it was a pretty damn stressful time. If your arch-enemy has a super-powered biological weapon and you have the cure wouldn't you make damn sure to be prepared, the boysout way?

Quote:

and yes, I
advocate a battery of test on anyone entering the country
whether a citizen or not,


 
I doubt this a fully planned thought for one reason. A battery of tests? Regarding what and based on what criteria? I travel alot and believe me if they started to "battery test" people not only would it A) increase the waiting time IMMENSELY but be a severe violation of my rights. Fuck me being battery tested, if I want to go back to my country I have a _right_.

Quote:

you can see with this new hog flu just
how efficiently a disease can spread around the world,



 
This has always been status quo. Disease has ALWAYS spread easily, DOES spread easily and furthermore WILL spread easily. As they say "It's the nature of the disease."

Quote:

illegals have been bringing in their share including TB, virtually
eradicated in the US until around 2002 when there was a serious
spike,


 
Unsure about this but am willing to bet it is not soley cause by illegals. Have you ever been tested by the way? It takes a few days (and is a simple test). Imagine blocking everyone till they test negative?
Quote:

we now have Chagas,


 
Chances are we have always had it and even if we didn't we would get it
"Chagas disease is caused by the parasite Trypanosoma cruzi, which is transmitted to animals and humans by reduviid bugs, a particular type of insect found only in the Americas. "source

Quote:

with leprosy there have been only 900
reported cases in the US in 50 years, now over 7000 cases in the
last 4 years...



Ok?

Quote:


so while we believe that smallpox was eradicated 30 years ago it
may still be in existance in laces other than the CDC, you know,
the place that sent Saddam his biological weapons and sends
other diseases to anyone with the right papers



Yea, well I agree. There is such a thing as bad people and bad countries. That's why we must maintain ourselves as the hegemonic global leader and more over be the right ones to be that leader.
Quote:


test everyone entering this country, those that enter illegally
should be assumed as a biological threat and destroyed by fire



Oh come on now... Destroyed by fire? What kind of statement is that? Sorry but I believe each human life is precious (And no I am not some hippy peace loving liberal activist.). A witch hunt will NOT help us. Guess what we already have multiple witch hunts. War on Drugs/Terrorism/Poverty/Racism/Sexism. Guess what? All total failures.
Quote:

the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[10] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been completely eradicated.[11]

In March 2004 smallpox scabs were found tucked inside an envelope in a book on Civil War medicine in Santa Fe, New Mexico.[55] The envelope was labeled as containing the scabs and listed the names of the patients they came from.





Fair enough quote I suppose... Fine back then in the Civil War they had small pox. I agree.
I also agree that a MEDICAL Civil War book would be a prime good case to have small pox scabs in it. Makes sense if you analyze it, doesn't it?

Quote:

if a US citizen has one of those diseases you mention should they be allowed into the US again?




if a US citizen has one of those diseases he wouldnt be admitted
to the country he was flying to so he'd be stuck here getting
treatment or simply dying in quarantine



Huh? False and wrong on many levels. This is fiating (pre-supposing) that the US citizen is being tested before he enters said country (which has never, ever ever, happend to me. As I said I am a frequent traveller.)Not only that but I have a _right_ to enter my country EVEN IF I have AIDS/HIV/TB. And guess what? Current reality and history agree with me. US citizens with herpes are not barred from leaving or entering this country. Niether are people with AIDS/HIV/Flu/Swine Flu/Bird Flu/Cancer.

Quote:

Also in Mexico I am pretty sure that it is in fact already illegal to build a drug empire _and/or_ kill thousands of people. As it is in the US.




Quote:


nothing is truely illegal in latin america, if it were dont you
think the mxican police would have nipped it in the bud before
it became the border war that it has




Sorry bud, but I can speak from 1st hand expierince. ALOT of things are illegal in L.America. I won't get pulled over for my passenger drinking beer in my car but I will get pulled over for talking on a cell or no seat belt. That alone disproves your statement but let's explore it further.

I get your argument. In L.Amer. things are more lax, rules are strethched if your the right person or if you know them. Yea, I know. I've seen it happen personally. But there are rules. And for the majority there are infact rules. And guess what those rules are enforced despotically. This is a short anwser to a short question but a question that opens many can of worms. If you want more I can provide.

But for now let's look beyond that... Why hasn't Mex nipped it in the bud before? Well why do you think 1) Corrupt gov 2)They _are_ a 3rd world country 3)Local acceptance... 4) Proliferation: I mean that those who ARE the problem became powerful enough to buy/work/lie thier way into a position of policy making.

That's why. Oh and let's not forget to mention that the drug war is wrong. I believe it is. Just because the US government pumps billions into tyrannic/depostic/wrong governments who are easily influenced or controlled doesn't mean that the polocy is correct. Infact the US has a LONG history of supporting WRONG governments that are easily controllable. I will concede the fact that I believe what ever is best for my country is correct but that doesn't mean I believe that the history smells like roses, nor does it now. (Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Argentina, Afghanistan, Iraq, Taliban, Nationalist Chinese are just some few examples and sources I can remember off the top of my head)


Quote:

Show me somewhere where it is legal to do one or both of those things and then your 2 way street argument will be golden.




Article 27 states,
article 27, Constitution of the United Mexican States

"Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have
the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their
appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines
or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners,
provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to
consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind
themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in
matters relating thereunto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance
with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the
Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership
of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the
frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the
country."

if you really read the constitution, you'll see just how you'll
never be a mexican regardless of what you do so you'll never own
the land, they'll always take it back




Doesn't anwser my point that allowing foriengers to buy massive land or disregard 'your'/local law is okay.
Fine, some countries have tougher immigration policies, others don't. So what?

Quote:

]Believe it or not but having foreigners buy thousand's of acres of land in your country is not good policy. It's a great way to have your territory annexed. I highly doubt that the US allows Russians and Chinese from buying large chunks of US land continuously.




Quote:


really? because the US has no laws preventing citizens of other
countries from buying land, in fact many of the defaulted
'mortgage crisis' loans were given to illegals, there were signs
in front of banks advertising that they give loans if the person
could provide a TIN number from the IRS




http://www.alipac.us/article1676.html

I wasn't talking about small incongrous buys. I am talking about large buys made by various organizations and people. I seem to remember that there was a big, BIG, scare during/before WWII about Japs buying too much land in Hawaii... Also there are infact regulation on purchases in the US by foriegners. Apparently you have to give a 20-25% down payment...

Quote:


simply buying up 1 millions acres wont allow china to annex it to be a part of china, that's an absurd notion




No, it is NOT absurd at all! Historacally buying up land has been a large part of nationalizing land. Look, even the US has done it. It is easy to annex: Texas, New Mexico, Cali anyone (not to mention a few US territories around the world)?  Buying land to nationalize? Alaska and "Louisiana" [read: basically our whole south].

Let's say that X-amount of government supported Russians decided to make large purchases of land in Rhode Island. Buy the whole damn thing. Are you saying it's an absurd notion to believe they could instigate legislation to annex it? Look at my past points.

It would cause civil war,if allowed (and I can only imagine it would be "nipped in the bud" before it got to a real esacalting point). Have we not had civil war before? Yep, we sure have... And guess how that turned out? All our other wars combined +, on the disaster scale. Want another one? Keep thinking it isn't possible.


Also regarding land purchases in Mexico:

Quote:

Most people have heard that people from the U.S. can’t buy property in Mexico. This isn’t entirely true. In fact the only real regulations are on the near the border and coast. These areas are known as the “restricted zone”. The “restricted zone” is the area within 100 kilometers of any Mexican border and within 50 miles of any Mexican coastline.
Other than the “restricted zone” foreigners can own land subject to Mexican law. Just because you are a U.S. citizen doesn’t mean the land becomes U.S. property. It is treated just like a Mexican citizen owned it. -http://www.mexico501.com/buying-land-in-mexico-as-a-foreigner/52/



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OfflineCowFarmer
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CowFarmer]
    #10324008 - 05/11/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

By the way let me add that I am infact agaisnt illegal immigration. I just don't support illogical reasons agaisnt it.

An illogical policy is THE WORST policy.

:smile:

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Invisibleshroomzey
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Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 904
Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10324764 - 05/11/09 10:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

shroomzey said:
Yes I agree, the welfare system in general isn't helping at all with this issue.  But I find it interesting how the current day American mostly ignores the immigration issues of the past, I admittedly as well.  When history is in context... the answer is cut and dry.





to the contrary, I'm more than willing to school you about the
past immigration issues, seems the open borders policy that the
first nations had led to more than 6 million murdered through
acts of war, terrorism and biological warfare, we should have
burned those damned boats with all the men, women and children
before they hit plymouth rock


open borders have never worked




Please do.  If you're willing to educate, I'd be a fool to deny information.  :smile:


--------------------

200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them.  I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CowFarmer]
    #10328615 - 05/12/09 06:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CowFarmer said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

CowFarmer said:
Last time I checked small pox is thought to be irradiated except for 2 or 3 vials kept by the US and Russia. Are you advocating that we check each potential immigrant with a clothe-hanger under the eyes like in the old days on liberty island? And yellow fever is transferred through mosquitoes.






well the WHO agrees but apparently they could be wrong, the US
has stockpiled enough of the vaccine to inoculate every man
woman and child in this country, if there want a fear of the
disease why would they need so much of this serum


 
Why? Because the USSR had it too!





I gues you're not to up on this reading thing, my response is above and it covered a little something regarding the point I
was making... you do get points dont you...

Quote:

Quote:

and yes, I
advocate a battery of test on anyone entering the country
whether a citizen or not,


 
I doubt this a fully planned thought for one reason. A battery of tests? Regarding what and based on what criteria? I travel alot and believe me if they started to "battery test" people not only would it A) increase the waiting time IMMENSELY but be a severe violation of my rights. Fuck me being battery tested, if I want to go back to my country I have a _right_.


 

what rights are violated


Quote:

you can see with this new hog flu just
how efficiently a disease can spread around the world,



 
This has always been status quo. Disease has ALWAYS spread easily, DOES spread easily and furthermore WILL spread easily. As they say "It's the nature of the disease."

Quote:

illegals have been bringing in their share including TB, virtually
eradicated in the US until around 2002 when there was a serious
spike,


 
Unsure about this but am willing to bet it is not soley cause by illegals. Have you ever been tested by the way? It takes a few days (and is a simple test). Imagine blocking everyone till they test negative?
Quote:

Quote:

we now have Chagas,


 
Chances are we have always had it and even if we didn't we would get it
"Chagas disease is caused by the parasite Trypanosoma cruzi, which is transmitted to animals and humans by reduviid bugs, a particular type of insect found only in the Americas. "source




found only in the americas...


Quote:


Chagas disease

Alternative Names   
American trypanosomiasis

Definition   

Chagas disease is an illness spread by insects. It is common in South and Central America.

Causes   

Chagas disease is caused by Trypanosoma cruzi, a parasite related to the African trypanosome that causes sleeping sickness. It is spread by reduvid bugs and is one of the major health problems in South America. Due to immigration, the disease also affects people in the United States.

Risk factors for Chagas disease include:

    * Living in a hut where reduvid bugs live in the walls
    * Living in Central or South America
    * Poverty
    * Receiving a blood transfusion from a person who carries the parasite but does not have active Chagas disease

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001372.htm







Quote:

Yea, well I agree. There is such a thing as bad people and bad countries.





what's a bad country, I mean it's just land with people and government, sure I'm sure some bad people live in those countries but I'd like to believe there are more good people than bad in every country, do only bad people come across the border illegally, of course not, there are some very good people that really do want to make a home here the problem is that they did so through a less than proper method, they broke some of our laws entering illegally, it wouldnt be called illegal immigration if they didnt

now that they're here and already having comitted a few crimes,
what's next, they have to find work, well there's a couple
methods work under the table and break some laws like tax
evasion, failure to report income, failure to file, etc...
and if they opt for another route, it's obtain a social security
number through illegal means in which case they've not committed
identity theft which is in fact another crime in addition to
fucking some poor innocent person regarding their taxes possibly
forcing them to pay shitloads more in back taxes that they knew nothing about... it has happened and the penalties for employers
is so small that's it's considered a business expense

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199861,00.html
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_snd-identity_theft.html


so what about those that dont find work, what means do they have for support, surely some generous person has decided to adopt them and pay their way so they dont have to suffer homelessness or starvation, and that person is probably uncle sam, if he doesnt, then what... they add to the crime rate that we already have, how many people would be alive today if proper background checks had been run at a border station of those entering the country, how many people wouldnt have been raped or robbed, would it surprise you to know that in some cities their contribution to criminal activity is over 60%

at what point does a good person become a bad one?


Quote:


test everyone entering this country, those that enter illegally
should be assumed as a biological threat and destroyed by fire



Oh come on now... Destroyed by fire? What kind of statement is that? Sorry but I believe each human life is precious




as do I, I also believe my life is more precious than yours, the
lives of my children are more precious than anyone elses, I
would like them to live to an old age but I cant see that
happening if the laws we already have in place are not enforced,
the big movement for 'taking back' america by hispanics have
declared this as a war, we should also treat it as such


Quote:

A witch hunt will NOT help us. Guess what we already have multiple witch hunts. War on Drugs/Terrorism/Poverty/Racism/Sexism. Guess what? All total failures.




you're right, most are failures, they dont do anything to actively search out illegals and deport or destroy them, they cant even ask what the residency/citizenship status is because it's racial profiling even though we have 20,000,000 illegals from more than 31 different nations, some are even european. We cant fight a war on racism because it's impossible to look into a mans head and see what he believes as it stands it seems that one side or the other has the benefit, currently it's stacked against the white man with affirmative action and all the other bullshit



Quote:


Huh? False and wrong on many levels. This is fiating (pre-supposing) that the US citizen is being tested before he enters said country (which has never, ever ever, happend to me. As I said I am a frequent traveller.)Not only that but I have a _right_ to enter my country EVEN IF I have AIDS/HIV/TB.





I have been tested and immunized every time I've traveled abroad, maybe it's based on location or occupation but I'll guarantee that if you show signs of TB or other communicable diseases you're not getting on a plane

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5737a1.htm

Quote:

Also regarding land purchases in Mexico:

Quote:

Most people have heard that people from the U.S. can�t buy property in Mexico. This isn�t entirely true. In fact the only real regulations are on the near the border and coast. These areas are known as the �restricted zone�. The �restricted zone� is the area within 100 kilometers of any Mexican border and within 50 miles of any Mexican coastline.
Other than the �restricted zone� foreigners can own land subject to Mexican law. Just because you are a U.S. citizen doesn�t mean the land becomes U.S. property. It is treated just like a Mexican citizen owned it. -http://www.mexico501.com/buying-land-in-mexico-as-a-foreigner/52/







it's kindof amazing, my quotes came straight from the mexican
constitution, it sort of over rides what mexico501 says and if
you read through your post, you'll see the ever ambiguous
statement "subject to Mexican law", so you can denounce your
citizenship and the protections of the US and buy land but are
you an american anymore or a mexican citizen

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10328661 - 05/12/09 06:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shroomzey said:
If you're willing to educate, I'd be a fool to deny information.  :smile:




this is what open borders and lax immigration policies/enforcement did for the first nations








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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: shroomzey]
    #10328772 - 05/12/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

here's an interesting read on why we dont need open borders


http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10328800 - 05/12/09 06:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i say slam these borders shut lickity split.


--------------------

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OfflineCowFarmer
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10333267 - 05/13/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

  Quote:
________________________________________

CowFarmer said:
Quote:
________________________________________

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
________________________________________

CowFarmer said:
Last time I checked small pox is thought to be irradiated except for 2 or 3 vials kept by the US and Russia. Are you advocating that we check each potential immigrant with a clothe-hanger under the eyes like in the old days on liberty island? And yellow fever is transferred through mosquitoes.
________________________________________




well the WHO agrees but apparently they could be wrong, the US
has stockpiled enough of the vaccine to inoculate every man
woman and child in this country, if there want a fear of the
disease why would they need so much of this serum
________________________________________
 
Why? Because the USSR had it too!
________________________________________




  I love your childish argument, do I understand a point and am I up to reading? Pro argument, hope your 4yr old didn’t have to think of it for you. I could do with out the childish bellitting if that is _okay_ with you sir.  I am searching for you argument andpoint, can’t find anything I DIDN’T anwer.

Where to start? You ask why have vaccine if it is destroyed? I anwsered RUSSIA HAD IT DURING THE COLD WAR. Now ask your little girl exactly in which way I negelected to read or anwser? It’s the classical question response mechanism. Why? Because Russia. Hope that is simple enough for you.




I gues you're not to up on this reading thing, my response is above and it covered a little something regarding the point I
was making... you do get points dont you...
Quote:
________________________________________

Quote:
________________________________________

and yes, I
advocate a battery of test on anyone entering the country
whether a citizen or not,
________________________________________
 
I doubt this a fully planned thought for one reason. A battery of tests? Regarding what and based on what criteria? I travel alot and believe me if they started to "battery test" people not only would it A) increase the waiting time IMMENSELY but be a severe violation of my rights. Fuck me being battery tested, if I want to go back to my country I have a _right_.
________________________________________
 

what rights are violated



  Pray do tell sir how the US government would have a reason to declare me a persona non grata? If I have my passport, am a legal US citizen and am trying to enter my country I can only see it as a right to have access to my country. After all it’s a little hard to pursue life, liberty happiness/property if I can’t even get inside my country. Oh want a source? How about the Bill of Rights?
“Admenment 13- Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. “http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Gee, sure hope you can believe that old piece of junk mildly credible?

Furthermore I see you completely forgot to anwser some of my points. Upon which cause shallI be submitted to a “battery of tests” furthermore what of the economic impacts. Delays are already 3 hours in the internaional flights, that is without any testing what so ever besides 1 drug machine for every 10 metal detectors. The drug sniffing machine taking from what I know about 10 seconds more. Now you want to submit us to an extremely invasive “battery of tests” No thank you. You can submit yourself.
I gues you're not to up on this reading thing, my points are above and it covered a little something regarding the point I was making... you do get points dont you... Furthermore you do understand making a quote of my paragraph and responding with a rhetorical 4 lettered question is not considered an anwser. Not here, not there, not anywhere.



Quote:
________________________________________

you can see with this new hog flu just
how efficiently a disease can spread around the world,

________________________________________
 
This has always been status quo. Disease has ALWAYS spread easily, DOES spread easily and furthermore WILL spread easily. As they say "It's the nature of the disease."
Quote:
________________________________________

illegals have been bringing in their share including TB, virtually
eradicated in the US until around 2002 when there was a serious
spike,
________________________________________
 
Unsure about this but am willing to bet it is not soley cause by illegals. Have you ever been tested by the way? It takes a few days (and is a simple test). Imagine blocking everyone till they test negative?
Quote:
________________________________________

Quote:
________________________________________

we now have Chagas,
________________________________________
 
Chances are we have always had it and even if we didn't we would get it
"Chagas disease is caused by the parasite Trypanosoma cruzi, which is transmitted to animals and humans by reduviid bugs, a particular type of insect found only in the Americas. "source
________________________________________


found only in the americas...


  Yes found “predominantly” in the Americas, what disease isn’t global in today’s jet age? I agree thanks for restating my sources last five words. (P.s North America is in the Americas...)


________________________________________


Chagas disease

Alternative Names   
American trypanosomiasis

Definition   

Chagas disease is an illness spread by insects. It is common in South and Central America.

Causes   

Chagas disease is caused by Trypanosoma cruzi, a parasite related to the African trypanosome that causes sleeping sickness. It is spread by reduvid bugs and is one of the major health problems in South America. Due to immigration, the disease also affects people in the United States.

Risk factors for Chagas disease include:

    * Living in a hut where reduvid bugs live in the walls
    * Living in Central or South America
    * Poverty
    * Receiving a blood transfusion from a person who carries the parasite but does not have active Chagas disease

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001372.htm


________________________________________




  Due to immigration, the disease also affects people in the United States.
Cool great, what ever. Closing the borders now won’t solve it. As my source said it, it is found in the Americas. Guess what that includes us. Do you honestly think that it was only caused by immigration? And furthermore and more importantly, do you think it was caused _solely_  by illegal immigration?

Guess what tourists go abroad, get sick and bring it back to their country. Or get in an accident and get a bad blood transfussion. It is very, very, very common.
So what is your point?

From what I get it’s this:
Chagas was brought into the US by those immigrants, therefore immigration bad. We should stop all immigration, burn illegals and therefore solve our chagas problem. 
 




Quote:

Quote:
________________________________________

Yea, well I agree. There is such a thing as bad people and bad countries.
________________________________________



what's a bad country,    Subjevtively? China, Russia, Iran, Germany (in the past), Many countries in the Americas.I mean it's just land with people and government  Yea and chagas is just a biological cell that tries to live the only way it knows how  , sure I'm sure some bad people live in those countries but I'd like to believe there are more good people than bad in every country, do only bad people come across the border illegally, of course not, there are some very good people that really do want to make a home here the problem is that they did so through a less than proper method, they broke some of our laws entering illegally, it wouldnt be called illegal immigration if they didnt
    Fine what ever, I told you I’m agaisnt illegal immigration and agaisnt them being in my country. Point?  When I said there is such a thing as bad people/countries I was reffering to you statement about “The company that sends bio weps to people with the right papers”
now that they're here and already having comitted a few crimes,
what's next, they have to find work, well there's a couple
methods work under the table and break some laws like tax
evasion, failure to report income, failure to file, etc...
and if they opt for another route, it's obtain a social security
number through illegal means in which case they've not committed
identity theft which is in fact another crime in addition to
fucking some poor innocent person regarding their taxes possibly
forcing them to pay shitloads more in back taxes that they knew nothing about... it has happened and the penalties for employers
is so small that's it's considered a business expense

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199861,00.html
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_snd-identity_theft.html


so what about those that dont find work, what means do they have for support, surely some generous person has decided to adopt them and pay their way so they dont have to suffer homelessness or starvation, and that person is probably uncle sam, if he doesnt, then what... they add to the crime rate that we already have, how many people would be alive today if proper background checks had been run at a border station of those entering the country, how many people wouldnt have been raped or robbed, would it surprise you to know that in some cities their contribution to criminal activity is over 60%
    No it wouldn’t surprise me. I stated before this post and before you post I was agaisnt illegal immigration. Does that surprise you? Or do you just make anwsers to posts without reading them? I am also agaisnt rape and robbery.
at what point does a good person become a bad one?
    Point of this questioning? Confused.
Quote:
________________________________________


test everyone entering this country, those that enter illegally
should be assumed as a biological threat and destroyed by fire
________________________________________

Oh come on now... Destroyed by fire? What kind of statement is that? Sorry but I believe each human life is precious
________________________________________


as do I, I also believe my life is more precious than yours, the
lives of my children are more precious than anyone elses, I
would like them to live to an old age but I cant see that
happening if the laws we already have in place are not enforced,
the big movement for 'taking back' america by hispanics have
declared this as a war, we should also treat it as such
    Yup, I believe this too. I am more precious than you and your daughter. Look it’s all common self-intrests. It’s a good thing. Are you saying that hispanics are going to cause an American Holocaust there by killing your children? Don’t be so paranoid, paranoia isn’t rationality and rationality is neccassary when dealing with bullshit in politics.
Look let me put your mind at ease, illegals won’t rape and rob your child- most likely. Chances are your child will not get raped by a US legal either- hopefully. But yea, let’s enforce some laws here, sure. I agree.
But let’s enforce these laws with a _clear_ and _level_ head. Bad laws make for a bad country. Stupid laws ruin people.
I have no idea where the fuck you figure that hispanics and caucasians are at war right now… But tell me where to find out more and I’ll make sure to be more careful. Just so happens I’m surronded everyday by 90% hispanics and I have been okay, thus far. Maybe that is because they are just waiting for the moment to pump chagas into my blood stream and sequester me you’re your farm to spread the disease? Let’s hope not.

Quote:
________________________________________

A witch hunt will NOT help us. Guess what we already have multiple witch hunts. War on Drugs/Terrorism/Poverty/Racism/Sexism. Guess what? All total failures.
________________________________________


you're right, most are failures  Which ones are succesful?  ,
they dont do anything to actively search out illegals and deport or destroy them    what doesn’t? War on drugs/terror/poverty/racism/sexism? No, that’s not their purpose. Except for the war on terrorism, I would disagree with you, that definetly has help ‘fortify’ our border, decrease visas and build a 30 billion dollar fence. , they cant even ask what the residency/citizenship status is because it's racial profiling even though we have 20,000,000 illegals from more than 31 different nations, some are even european. We cant fight a war on racism because it's impossible to look into a mans head and see what he believes as it stands it seems that one side or the other has the benefit, currently it's stacked against the white man with affirmative action and all the other bullshit    Get used to it or leave. White devil. :wink:


Quote:
________________________________________


Huh? False and wrong on many levels. This is fiating (pre-supposing) that the US citizen is being tested before he enters said country (which has never, ever ever, happend to me. As I said I am a frequent traveller.)Not only that but I have a _right_ to enter my country EVEN IF I have AIDS/HIV/TB.
________________________________________



I have been tested and immunized every time I've traveled abroad, maybe it's based on location or occupation but I'll guarantee that if you show signs of TB or other communicable diseases you're not getting on a plane  Every time? Huh? Immpossible. Absolutely immpossible. Where were you going? And more over how often do you travel? I used to spend more time in airplanes than in school. Not tested once. And by the way, I’ve sat by plently of people with the flu or some other sickness, ON THE PLANE and IN THE AIR. Oh and guess how the swine flu got into the US, not illegal immigration, it got into the US through the airports.
Won’t lie to you, I have also gone on an air plane sick as well, plent of times. Not a wary eye from anyone. Oh and a lot of diseases like HIV/AIDs, it’s hard to tell.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5737a1.htm
Quote:
________________________________________

Also regarding land purchases in Mexico:
Quote:
________________________________________

Most people have heard that people from the U.S. can�t buy property in Mexico. This isn�t entirely true. In fact the only real regulations are on the near the border and coast. These areas are known as the �restricted zone�. The �restricted zone� is the area within 100 kilometers of any Mexican border and within 50 miles of any Mexican coastline.
Other than the �restricted zone� foreigners can own land subject to Mexican law. Just because you are a U.S. citizen doesn�t mean the land becomes U.S. property. It is treated just like a Mexican citizen owned it. -http://www.mexico501.com/buying-land-in-mexico-as-a-foreigner/52/
________________________________________

________________________________________


it's kindof amazing, my quotes came straight from the mexican
constitution, it sort of over rides what mexico501 says and if
you read through your post, you'll see the ever ambiguous
statement "subject to Mexican law", so you can denounce your
citizenship and the protections of the US and buy land but are
you an american anymore or a mexican citizen
    I’ll take the advice of someone who lives and works in Mexico. Latin countrie’s constitutions don’t hold the same amount of water as the US one nor do they have even a fraction of the shelf life.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: CowFarmer]
    #10334841 - 05/13/09 09:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CowFarmer said:
Where to start? You ask why have vaccine if it is destroyed? I anwsered RUSSIA HAD IT DURING THE COLD WAR. Now ask your little girl exactly in which way I negelected to read or anwser? It�s the classical question response mechanism. Why? Because Russia. Hope that is simple enough for you.




the little girl responds "cold war has been over for  2 decades, why would they still be stockpiling the treatment if no one is using it as a biological agent and we no longer have the big bad enemy known as the Soviet Union to worry about"



Quote:
________________________________________

Quote:


  Pray do tell sir how the US government would have a reason to declare me a persona non grata? If I have my passport, am a legal US citizen and am trying to enter my country I can only see it as a right to have access to my country.




really, once again WHAT RIGHT TO REENTRY INTO THE US DO YOU HAVE?

http://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=63


Quote:

want a source? How about the Bill of Rights?
�Admenment 13- Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. �http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html





nothing there about foreign travel, think life, liberty and
pursuit of happiness when you consider the drug laws, where'd
you say you left your rights?


Quote:

Furthermore I see you completely forgot to anwser some of my points. Upon which cause shallI be submitted to a �battery of tests� furthermore what of the economic impacts. Delays are already 3 hours in the internaional flightsNow you want to submit us to an extremely invasive �battery of tests� No thank you.




yup... if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to
fear, surely you were immunized prior to your departure, isnt
that enough to ensure your speedy reentry into the country, if
you were immunized then you wont have what ever deadly pathogen
everyone in Uzbekistan is carrying, those that cant show the
immunization records should expect delays




Quote:

Furthermore you do understand making a quote of my paragraph and responding with a rhetorical 4 lettered question is not considered an anwser. Not here, not there, not anywhere.




it could also mean I'm seeking clarification bacause your
statement/question was a little too obscure, vague or just plain
retarded, take your pick

 
Quote:

Unsure about this but am willing to bet it is not soley cause by illegals.




the CDC and the National Institute of Health seem to disagree
with the conclusion you've drawn, since they're doctors and
scientists who's occupation is to study diseases, they're means
of travel and their origins, I think I may be inclined to
believe them more so than someone that's 'unsure'



Quote:

Have you ever been tested by the way? It takes a few days (and is a simple test). Imagine blocking everyone till they test negative?




yup... no syphilis


Quote:
________________________________________

Quote:

Quote:
Chagas disease is an illness spread by insects. It is common in South and Central America.
* Living in Central or South America

  Due to immigration, the disease also affects people in the United States.
____________________________________________________
Cool great, what ever. Closing the borders now won�t solve it. As my source said it, it is found in the Americas. Guess what that includes us. Do you honestly think that it was only caused by immigration?





no, I dont think the disease was caused bu immigration,  I
believe the disease is caused by a parasite, not by it's bite
but by contact with it's feces, at least that's what modern
science tells me in addition to the NIH and the CDC, you know,
the ones that study diseases, their causes, it just so happens
that the disease is carried by illegals, a disease that we didnt
have before the mass influx of illegals...


and no, closing the borders wont solve a disease, nor will it
cure a disease, we can prevent infections of this one and others
by closing the borders, deporting every illegal, executing those
that attempt illegal entry and destroying them with fire, or we
can use method #2, launch them back over the border via cannon

try to remember, THE AMERICAS is not THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
it covers north, central and south america which is comprised of dozens of countries, many of which lack the resources we have regarding health


Quote:

And furthermore and more importantly, do you think it was caused _solely_  by illegal immigration?





again, caused by a parasite

Quote:

Guess what tourists go abroad, get sick and bring it back to their country. Or get in an accident and get a bad blood transfussion. It is very, very, very common.
So what is your point?





Hmmmmm, bad blood transfusions are common? I'm pretty sure
there's a lot of testing on blood to ensure people arent
infected with disease, in fact, if you're traveled abroad
in the last 5 years, you cant donate blood, sure that's on the
honor system but are people so eager to give blood that they'd
lie and potentially risk infecting others, even though they know
the blood gets tested, hell if you've recently recieved a
vaccine you cant donate, they'll reject your blood

Quote:

From what I get it�s this:
Chagas was brought into the US by those immigrants, therefore immigration bad. We should stop all immigration, burn illegals and therefore solve our chagas problem. 




those poor little conclusions, this is about open borders and
illegal immigration, immigrants get health tested before they
can enter the country, it's not like the olden days where people
came to ellis island, went through health checks, signed papers
and all that shit... oh wait, it is, unless they're doing it
illegally in which case we cant even find out if they're wanted
for criminal activities in their own country


Quote:
what's a bad country,    Subjevtively? China, Russia, Iran, Germany (in the past), Many countries in the Americas.

and chagas is just a biological cell that tries to live the only way it knows how 






wow... so it's not the government that you view as bad, it's the
country, I assume that means it's inhabitants as well as the
land, animals and political figures, having just eaten chinese
food for lunch and starting my visit with "Ni Hao Ma" and ending
it with a resounding "XiaXia" and never getting sick, I can
emphatically say china is not that damned bad, at least the
people and the food are usually pretty decent


wow, so the people in these bad countries are a disease



Quote:

    Fine what ever, I told you I�m agaisnt illegal immigration and agaisnt them being in my country. Point?  When I said there is such a thing as bad people/countries I was reffering to you statement about �The company that sends bio weps to people with the right papers�





yet you argue for open borders and the spread of disease, the increase in crime, loss of viable jobs, etc...

the 'company' I referred to is the CDC, a government agency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Disease_Control_and_Prevention

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9393.php



Quote:

Are you saying that hispanics are going to cause an American Holocaust there by killing your children? Don�t be so paranoid, paranoia isn�t rationality and rationality is neccassary when dealing with bullshit in politics.
Look let me put your mind at ease, illegals won�t rape and rob your child- most likely.





most likely? not good enough considering the thousands that
happen every year, what makes it interesting is that they seldom
stand trial and the few that do get deported and come back under
a new name, 'most likely' doesnt put my mind at ease especially
with thugs like La Raza and MS-13, 18th street, Norteños, etc...
it certainly doesnt put my mind at ease when I open the local
small town paper and discover that some hispanic illegal has
butchered a rival with a machete only 20 miles from where I live

La Raza has delcared war on the US because we wont bow down and
allow for open borders, we wont issue blanket amnesties for all
the illegals coming into the country, we wont return the
southwest to them and claim we stole it and they're entitled to it


Quote:

I have no idea where the fuck you figure that hispanics and caucasians are at war right now� But tell me where to find out more and I�ll make sure to be more careful. Just so happens I�m surronded everyday by 90% hispanics and I have been okay, thus far. Maybe that is because they are just waiting for the moment to pump chagas into my blood stream and sequester me you�re your farm to spread the disease? Let�s hope not.

Quote:
________________________________________

A witch hunt will NOT help us. Guess what we already have multiple witch hunts. War on Drugs/Terrorism/Poverty/Racism/Sexism. Guess what? All total failures.
________________________________________

  Get used to it or leave. White devil. :wink:

I'm an injun


Quote:

  I�ll take the advice of someone who lives and works in Mexico. Latin countrie�s constitutions don�t hold the same amount of water as the US one nor do they have even a fraction of the shelf life.




and yet you rely on a website that gets it information from
something that's so flexible that makes the claim that americans
can buy land and keep it, like the US, the constitution is the
highest law, like the US, it's toilet paper, like the US there's
corruption at every level of government from the president down
to the parking meter reader... what's the difference between the
US and most other countries, most other countries enforce their
immigration laws and actively pursue and deport the offenders

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10334894 - 05/13/09 09:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

jesus.    too much reading.

:cruelworld:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10335206 - 05/13/09 10:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

summary: illegal aliens=disease carrying vermin, destroy with fire

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
Re: Making The Case For Open Borders [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10335268 - 05/13/09 10:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:


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