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Offlinenivek33
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: FleaAccela]
    #10485784 - 06/10/09 11:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

it's apparent Subconscious doesn't understand what an MPC does or what it's capable of. It is not just a preset loop machine (though it can do that too). you can create entire songs from scratch with it with what ever 'instruments' you choose.

I will attest that being a musician doesn't always equate to knowing an instrument or music theory. while i can play most band instruments (guitar, bass, drums) at an intermediate level without any lessons,  i don't know how to read or write music in the traditional sense. I barely know my basic scales by reference and i barely know most chords outside the major/minor/7th range by heart.

what i do know is what i hear in my head. i can hear music in my head all day... and have a pretty good sense of recreating it. This is a special talent/gift i have that I believe a lot of people have. I can play by 'ear.' Does that not make me a musician? well maybe not by Subconsciousness's standards, but i can make better and more complex music than a lot of formally trained 'musicians,' without 'composing' it.

Yes it is trial and error, especially in electronic music when you are going for a timbre a lot of the times rather than a melody because there are limitless possibilities. But I can hear perfect melodies in my head without knowing what key or scale or mode it's in... and i can reproduce it on a keyboard with a little time because i can go by my inner ear to find the notes on the board.

Edited by nivek33 (06/10/09 11:54 PM)

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Offlinestefan
work in progress


Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: nivek33]
    #10493484 - 06/12/09 10:05 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


The differance is most of the time a beat machine is like 95% just fucking around



maybe that's when you use a beat machine:smirk:

now seriously, anyone who keeps flaming in this thread will get a temp ban!

Keep it civilized, even in the heat of it




PS I just bought a Korg ESX (still have to recieve it in the mail though). Does that count as an MPC? I bought it so I can do some live music making (not for a crowd, just in my room for now..)

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OfflineSubconscious
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Registered: 09/19/08
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Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: nivek33]
    #10494781 - 06/12/09 03:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nivek33 said:
what i do know is what i hear in my head. i can hear music in my head all day... and have a pretty good sense of recreating it. This is a special talent/gift i have that I believe a lot of people have. I can play by 'ear.' Does that not make me a musician? well maybe not by Subconsciousness's standards, but i can make better and more complex music than a lot of formally trained 'musicians,' without 'composing' it.





:rolleyes:

Alright, I can play by ear as well... but I usually jam within specific keys and know which keys work well with one another for transitioning.

I'll also add that in my first years of playing guitar I had the same attitude "I don't need to know any theory", I wrote 2 songs in that year... and while they kick ass, it was an insane amount of experimentation and figuring things out by accident. Although I wrote the songs by ear, I later discovered that both were actually written in E harmonic minor.

I can almost guarantee that when you write by ear, you're really just playing within a specific scale/key without realizing it. Now, thats fine... but actually getting some knowledge of what you're doing will make you progress as a musician SO much faster than just doing everything by ear it's rediculous.


Theory is a tool to use, not a substitute for creativity. But it is an extremely useful tool nonetheless, you can be a musician without it... there are those who can still write decent riffs without knowing shit... i'm not denying that. But to totally disregard it you're really limiting yourself, you probably can't even fathome how much. I recommened you try learning something, find out for yourself just how much it improves your playing and then come back and tell me how "gifted" you are.

Like I said, I played for a year or so straight by ear and thought I was doing awesome. Then I actually learned some shit and progressed a hell of a lot more that first month than the whole last year...

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Offlinenivek33
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: Subconscious]
    #10495926 - 06/12/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:

Theory is a tool to use, not a substitute for creativity. But it is an extremely useful tool nonetheless, you can be a musician without it... there are those who can still write decent riffs without knowing shit... i'm not denying that. But to totally disregard it you're really limiting yourself, you probably can't even fathome how much. I recommened you try learning something, find out for yourself just how much it improves your playing and then come back and tell me how "gifted" you are.

Like I said, I played for a year or so straight by ear and thought I was doing awesome. Then I actually learned some shit and progressed a hell of a lot more that first month than the whole last year...




where did i disregard music theory? i think music theory is amazing. All i said is you don't need to know it to be a good musician. Yes it helps definitely, but there are some amazing self taught musicians out there that don't know scales by names or notes or modes or what have you.

good music is a feeling, an emotion conveyed with audio. You can listen to an Nsync song and their producers know music theory to a T, but does that make them good artists? no not really, they just know what chords progressions and scales 'work' and slap some cheesy vocals on top, and they have a hit because it sounds good. It doesn't mean it has a soul. That's what music theory can't teach you is how to draw an emotion from audio...that's all self taught in my opinion.

also another point... good instrumentalists can't necessarily write good songs. Ynigwe Malsteem knows every scale known to man, and what he does on guitar is impressive as fuck, but his songs suck. He couldn't write a good song without there being 64th note licks through the entire thing. And again there is absolutely no soul behind what he does...he's just a very well trained guitarist. Nirvana in context wrote better 'songs' with 4 chords.

of course its all subjective, but people like Ynigwe for his guitar playing, not his songwriting. There is a difference in talents. While it helps to know music theory in both areas, it is not required to excel in either area.

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OfflineSubconscious
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Registered: 09/19/08
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Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: nivek33]
    #10496038 - 06/12/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

nivek33 said:
of course its all subjective, but people like Ynigwe for his guitar playing, not his songwriting. There is a difference in talents. While it helps to know music theory in both areas, it is not required to excel in either area.




I totally agree. I'm not even sure how this whole thread went off on such a tangent anyways.

I was not trying to shit on anyone else's musical preferances in this thread, even if it came across that way. Sorry

And I hate Malsteem... that's exactly what I meant by the line "theory isn't a substitute for creativity"... guy just sweeps arpeggios all day and night, sounds annoying ass hell.

Edited by Subconscious (06/12/09 08:03 PM)

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Offlinenivek33
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 45
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: Subconscious]
    #10496249 - 06/12/09 09:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:
Quote:

nivek33 said:
of course its all subjective, but people like Ynigwe for his guitar playing, not his songwriting. There is a difference in talents. While it helps to know music theory in both areas, it is not required to excel in either area.




I totally agree. I'm not even sure how this whole thread went off on such a tangent anyways.

I was not trying to shit on anyone else's musical preferances in this thread, even if it came across that way. Sorry

And I hate Malsteem... that's exactly what I meant by the line "theory isn't a substitute for creativity"... guy just sweeps arpeggios all day and night, sounds annoying ass hell.




you didn't offend anyone. The only point I'm trying to make is that an MPC is more than just groovebox that makes music for you. It is a full fledged music writing tool, just like music theory is a tool. It's only as good as the person using it.

and yes Ynigwe is devoid of all creativity. I like how he's still squeezing into his leather pants and rocking the long hair!! More power to him.

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OfflineFleaAccela
Hip-HopEncyclopedia


Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 562
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Purchasing an MPC Beat Machine [Re: Subconscious]
    #10503265 - 06/14/09 04:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:

And I hate Malsteem... that's exactly what I meant by the line "theory isn't a substitute for creativity"... guy just sweeps arpeggios all day and night, sounds annoying ass hell.




of course, with that said - all is forgiven. anyone who hates malmsteem is a friend of mine :thumbup:


--------------------
:royalrainbow:I love rolling... my Katamari!!!:royalrainbow:

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