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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
Peyote Farmer
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Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 16,545
Loc: Uk / Philippines
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: carpetmunch]
    #10299081 - 05/06/09 07:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TheManWithTheHat said:
Just curious, but are you wanting this to extend over plants that grow in abundance?
(The first example that comes to mind would be something like dandelion or chives)

This may be my personal opinion and all, I definitely agree that when someone's taking an entire relatively uncommon plant away from its natural locale its bad:thumbdown:, but it does seem like there are instances that there's really zero impact from small specimens.

It just kind of feels like that zero-tolerance policy that the guv'ment always promotes. It seems better to demonstrate responsible specimen collecting than just banning it [Such as uploading a picture of a large volume of them, indicating what size specimen they want to take, and then have the community pass judgment on the matter]. To me that is.


What are your thoughts, good Dr?



i think you need your head looking at if you are taking dandelions from the wild lol
most plants (or seeds of the species a person desires) are available to buy from garden centres or online sources, so i see no need for anyone to be taking plants from the wild or other peoples property at all.
if someone wants to grow a certain species there is always an ethical source, just some people are too tight to put their hand in their pocket and shell out to get started it seems.

there are other alternatives than taking plants, seed collecting for example is perfectly acceptable.
zero tolerance will only apply to people who steal plants from others and take rare specimens from the wild i guess.
as always there is some discretion with the rule.
for example: we are not going to start banning people for taking the odd opuntia pad, you may get a telling off though.

another reason for this rule introduction is that when someone is suspected of stealing or poaching a plant it always causes quite a stir and hopefully this will help to avoid some of that drama.


Quote:

carpetmunch said:
Making it illegal to do this or that, or leaving some topics forbidden should not be what
this site is about.  We know the result of making things illegal...it does not work.



we are not making it illegal, it is already illegal.
as stated above there is always some discretion required when enforcing rules.


--------------------
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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10300489 - 05/07/09 01:08 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. uarewotueat said:
i think you need your head looking at if you are taking dandelions from the wild lol
most plants (or seeds of the species a person desires) are available to buy from garden centres or online sources, so i see no need for anyone to be taking plants from the wild or other peoples property at all.
if someone wants to grow a certain species there is always an ethical source, just some people are too tight to put their hand in their pocket and shell out to get started it seems.

there are other alternatives than taking plants, seed collecting for example is perfectly acceptable.
zero tolerance will only apply to people who steal plants from others and take rare specimens from the wild i guess.
as always there is some discretion with the rule.
for example: we are not going to start banning people for taking the odd opuntia pad, you may get a telling off though.

another reason for this rule introduction is that when someone is suspected of stealing or poaching a plant it always causes quite a stir and hopefully this will help to avoid some of that drama.




Dandelion was the only thing I could come up with speedily :emocry:
But yeah, I s'pose that's a perfectly reasonable rule :thumbup:

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OfflinePilzeEssen


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #10301077 - 05/07/09 06:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. uarewotueat said:

Quote:

Poaching and theft of plants is illegal. Anyone who shows intent to do so or admits to taking plants from the wild, from a private property or public property without permission will be banned from the Ethnobotanical Garden Forum temporarily, if not permanently.







drug possession, preparation of cacti, extractions, etc, are all illegal also, but we openly discuss them and not get banned...

so just because "poaching" is illegal, we cant do it, and talk about it like that on here? im sorry but that is ridiculous. now the shroomery is imposing their morals on the people who frequent the boards... thats just fuckin crazy.


--------------------
"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."

If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... :frown:

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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: PilzeEssen]
    #10301818 - 05/07/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Your arguement has down syndrome.


Stealing is wrong, guy.  And if you dont think so, you've never been robbed.

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Offlinekadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10302034 - 05/07/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

PilzeEssen, in a way i agree, but i think we, here, are talking more of moral code rather than legal code.  we all know that various topics here are illegal, but not immoral.  but taking endangered species and stealing, like harvey says, is morally wrong by most people's standards and i think that is what uare is getting at with this rule.  i cant speak for him but i suspect that taking seeds/cuttings from abundant species in the wild or doing scientific research is not going to get a ban.  i frequently collect plant and animal samples for universities around the globe, although dont post that stuff here i doubt it would get me banned..(it wont right?)....

many people here know whats in need of protection and what is a weed.  steal someones weed plant, or go pick some peyote and we will likely all bitch at ya.  but if your collecting dandelion leaves for a salad for broom flowers for a brew i doubt anyone would give 2 shits in the sense of wrong doing (except for the fact dandelions taste like ass and your doing your taste buds a great injustice!)


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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InvisibleMankey
Male
Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 2,203
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: kadakuda]
    #10302295 - 05/07/09 12:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kadakuda said:
PilzeEssen, in a way i agree, but i think we, here, are talking more of moral code rather than legal code.  we all know that various topics here are illegal, but not immoral.  but taking endangered species and stealing, like harvey says, is morally wrong by most people's standards and i think that is what uare is getting at with this rule.  i cant speak for him but i suspect that taking seeds/cuttings from abundant species in the wild or doing scientific research is not going to get a ban.  i frequently collect plant and animal samples for universities around the globe, although dont post that stuff here i doubt it would get me banned..(it wont right?)....

many people here know whats in need of protection and what is a weed.  steal someones weed plant, or go pick some peyote and we will likely all bitch at ya.  but if your collecting dandelion leaves for a salad for broom flowers for a brew i doubt anyone would give 2 shits in the sense of wrong doing (except for the fact dandelions taste like ass and your doing your taste buds a great injustice!)




Dandelion wine is win.

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Invisiblejds


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 3,083
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Mankey]
    #10302296 - 05/07/09 12:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That new rule is a good idea


--------------------
“No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

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InvisibleMankey
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Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 2,203
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: jds]
    #10302338 - 05/07/09 12:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HellDragon said:
That new rule is a good idea




The people that poach plants in that manner (Is this a magic san pedro?!?!11?!?)are usually the ones who havn't read the rules anyway. Now, when they break a rule they havn't read, they'll get banned? Good! I think it'll keep a ton of jerk-offs out of the forum.

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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Mankey]
    #10302354 - 05/07/09 12:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Can be banned. Not will be banned.


I'm sure we'll someday witness a ban worthy poacher...  if we havent already.

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Invisiblejds


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 3,083
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10302359 - 05/07/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

If they're noobs and didn't read the rules maybe they should just get a one-time warning.

we all went through this and we probably all made mistakes before


--------------------
“No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten.”

― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

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OfflinePilzeEssen


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10302376 - 05/07/09 12:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HarveyWalbanger said:
Your arguement has down syndrome.


Stealing is wrong, guy.  And if you dont think so, you've never been robbed.




did i say anything about stealing? no. my argument makes perfect sense, your reading comprehension skills probably arent up to par.


--------------------
"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."

If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... :frown:

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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Registered: 06/24/02
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: PilzeEssen]
    #10302404 - 05/07/09 12:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Edit:  Alright, I see your point.  But we do alot of moral moderation here.  No dose discussion, no hookups, no flaming.  Why? because people need it...    Harm reduction in all aspects. Including environmental impact.

Edited by HarveyWalbanger (05/07/09 01:07 PM)

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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10302479 - 05/07/09 01:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Every forum has rules you tip toe around.

The vendor's forum is for vendors only
OTD, you'll be gang raped just because.
In the pub you have to be nice or they ban you :p

...In the garden you get bitched at for hurting plants.  :shrug:  It seems completely logical to me.

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OfflineProf. Astro
acirebma

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 4,084
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10302505 - 05/07/09 01:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Me too, it really is separate from the shroomery here. Not many of us I know of grow mushrooms, but if we did we would have OCD like rules around them; instead we have plants and have OCD rules about them. Steal a plant, lose a hand, it is really simple and a good rule.


--------------------
:hanky:

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InvisibleArtVandaley
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 626
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Prof. Astro]
    #10304582 - 05/07/09 08:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Has no one ever poached the sacred fungi from the wild here at the shroomery?
Did they get applauds for they're rare/not rare finds?
Has anyone here at the shroomery ever been banned for threads with pics of kilos of cubes, subs, amanita etc that was far more than they actually needed to take from the wild, were they frowned upon?
These shenanigans are confusing :ashamed: 

I totally agree with the no stealing from private gardens though:crankey:

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Offlineplainswalker
Plant Shepherd
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Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 765
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: ArtVandaley]
    #10304727 - 05/07/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ArtVandaley said:
Has no one ever poached the sacred fungi from the wild here at the shroomery?
Did they get applauds for they're rare/not rare finds?
Has anyone here at the shroomery ever been banned for threads with pics of kilos of cubes, subs, amanita etc that was far more than they actually needed to take from the wild, were they frowned upon?
These shenanigans are confusing :ashamed: 

I totally agree with the no stealing from private gardens though:crankey:




Were those amanitas they picked endangered?  Is there a good chance that it took over a decade for those cubes to grow out?  And will it take that amount of time for another to replace them?

This rule is made primarily to 1) stop theft of plants (especially cacti) from private property, and 2) to not support theft of plants from the wild (especially slow-growing rare cacti).

I don't know if you understand this.  With mushrooms, you're talking just weeks and months, with cacti you're talking years and can easily be talking decades.  There's no comparison.


--------------------
tradelist

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Offlineethnoguy
"Raper of Mother Nature"
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: plainswalker]
    #10304836 - 05/07/09 08:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

plainswalker said:
Quote:

ArtVandaley said:
Has no one ever poached the sacred fungi from the wild here at the shroomery?
Did they get applauds for they're rare/not rare finds?
Has anyone here at the shroomery ever been banned for threads with pics of kilos of cubes, subs, amanita etc that was far more than they actually needed to take from the wild, were they frowned upon?
These shenanigans are confusing :ashamed: 

I totally agree with the no stealing from private gardens though:crankey:




Were those amanitas they picked endangered?  Is there a good chance that it took over a decade for those cubes to grow out?  And will it take that amount of time for another to replace them?

This rule is made primarily to 1) stop theft of plants (especially cacti) from private property, and 2) to not support theft of plants from the wild (especially slow-growing rare cacti).

I don't know if you understand this.  With mushrooms, you're talking just weeks and months, with cacti you're talking years and can easily be talking decades.  There's no comparison.





I couldn't have said it better.

EG

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OfflineTheManWithTheHat
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: plainswalker]
    #10304867 - 05/07/09 08:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

plainswalker said:
This rule is made primarily to 1) stop theft of plants (especially cacti) from private property, and 2) to not support theft of plants from the wild (especially slow-growing rare cacti).



:sanpedro::boobs::sanpedro:        :cactuarrun:

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 13,259
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Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: ArtVandaley]
    #10305082 - 05/07/09 09:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ArtVandaley said:
Has no one ever poached the sacred fungi from the wild here at the shroomery?
Did they get applauds for they're rare/not rare finds?
Has anyone here at the shroomery ever been banned for threads with pics of kilos of cubes, subs, amanita etc that was far more than they actually needed to take from the wild, were they frowned upon?
These shenanigans are confusing :ashamed: 

I totally agree with the no stealing from private gardens though:crankey:




Your comparing a fruit to a Plant  :shake:


--------------------
:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

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OfflinePilzeEssen


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
Loc: USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: New Rule For The Garden - No Poaching Or Stealing Of Plants. [Re: Brainiac]
    #10305361 - 05/07/09 10:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

mushrooms are a fungus, not a fruit.


--------------------
"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."

If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... :frown:

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