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OfflineDroz
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Registered: 10/16/00
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A little bit of technology.
    #1029092 - 11/06/02 07:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Cars that run on hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas does not combust when the tank is ruptured. The payoff... a fuel cell gives off water as it's only by-product while yielding a high energy efficiency of 65% on electricity alone and up to 90% when cogenerating heat as well as electricity. In addition resupply is just as quick as a gas fill up, the hydrogen tank can be refilled in a matter of minutes.

(Percentages taking from http://www.lausd.k12.ca.us/NH_Zoo_Magnet/power_trip/alternative_fuel_systems.html)
I would like to know more about this stuff. Anyone into any interesting latest technologies? Post it.

These are just a few good points about the fuel cell car. Sad thing is it will take a while for these type of vehicles to be seen frequently on the road. I would surely like to own one, and hope to see them in my lifetime. Just hope i can afford one. =)

What do you guys think? This might be the next step after hybrid cars.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Peace,
Droz
 


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Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: A little bit of technology. [Re: Droz]
    #1030634 - 11/07/02 01:17 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, I studied up on this technology a few years ago. It seems that leaky fuel cells are still a major setback. The other major setbacks are the oil competition and a distribution network (gas pumps at home would be nice though).


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: A little bit of technology. [Re: Droz]
    #1030781 - 11/07/02 02:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

In reply to:

Cars that run on hydrogen gas.... The payoff... a fuel cell gives off water as it's only by-product while yielding a high energy efficiency of 65% on electricity alone and up to 90% when cogenerating heat as well as electricity.



Where does the energy come from to produce the hydrogen? I know that you can use water but you have to run an electric current through it. How will the electricity be generated? Fossil fuels, hydroelectric, nuclear? It amuses me that out here in California I see some 'enlightened' individuals driving around in their little subsidized electric cars thinking that they aren't polluting... meanwhile back at the fuel oil fired electrical generation plant they're increasing their consumption of hydrocarbons to meet the increased demand for electricity. Every time you convert from one form of energy to another, chemical (fossil fuels) -> heat (used to make steam) -> kinetic (steam turbine) -> electrical -> chemical (hydrogen) -> electric -> kinetic (car motor), there is a loss of energy, so overall you may actually be using more energy to do a given amount of work than if you went from chemical (fossil fuels) -> heat -> kinetic (car motor).

Mostly what were doing at this point is merely moving the point of pollution from individual cars to big power plants. I think the big electric generating companies really like this technology ($$) I also think that the oil companies aren't bothered by it at all because they can supply the power plants with fuel and yet the political pressure is then taken off of them because the source of the pollution is less apparent. Additionally, refining fuel oil from crude is much cheaper than refining gasoline from crude.

Just my view from being a former Chevron U.S.A. Products Company employee.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: A little bit of technology. [Re: Evolving]
    #1030863 - 11/07/02 02:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There's a lot of money going into researching catalysts that could allow photolysis of water. ie. add some chemicals, expose that water to light, collect hydrogen and oxygen. I'm not sure that it wil ever happen though.


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
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Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: A little bit of technology. [Re: zeta]
    #1031182 - 11/07/02 04:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

ethanol based automobiles. basically could be on of the most abundant fuel sources ever and the pollutant output is really low.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
Re: A little bit of technology. [Re: Evolving]
    #1031379 - 11/07/02 05:51 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

"Where does the energy come from to produce the hydrogen? "

Fuel cells can promote energy diversity and a transition to renewable energy sources. Hydrogen -- the most abundant element on Earth -- can be used directly. Fuel cells can also utilize fuel containing hydrogen, including methanol, ethanol, natural gas, and even gasoline or diesel fuel. Fuels containing hydrogen generally require a "fuel reformer" that extracts the hydrogen. Energy also could be supplied by biomass, wind, solar power or other renewable sources. Fuel cells today are running on many different fuels, even gas from landfills and wastewater treatment plants.

When using a fuel other than pure hydrogen, a reformer or fuel processor is required. A reformer a device that produces hydrogen from fuels such as gasoline, methanol, ethanol or naphtha. Three basic reformer designs are being evaluated for fuel cells for use in vehicles: steam reforming, partial oxidation and auto-thermal reforming. Steam reformers combine fuel with steam and heat to produce hydrogen. The heat required to operate the system is obtained by burning fuel or excess hydrogen from the outlet of the fuel cell stack. Partial oxidation reformers combine fuel with oxygen to produce hydrogen and carbon monoxide. The carbon monoxide then reacts with steam to produce more hydrogen. Partial oxidation releases heat, which is captured and used elsewhere in the system. Auto-thermal reformers combine the fuel with both steam and oxygen so that the reaction is in heat balance. Auto-thermal reforming, while not as fully developed as the others, offers the most flexibility in heat management. In general, both methanol and gasoline can be used in any of the three reformer designs. Differences in the chemical nature of the fuels, however, can favor one design over another.

link where i got this: http://www.fuelcells.org/fcfaqs.htm#from


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Always Smi2le


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