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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms.
#1028405 - 11/06/02 02:11 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been doing a lot of reading here and searching on the net to find ways to spike the mixture to make it more potent. I have found a link that have experimented with these things to increase the psilocybin and psilocyn content in the mushrooms. Tryptamine HCl has been added to cakes and increased the psilocybin and psilocyn content dramatically. I have read numerous times tryptophan, an amino acid, does nothing because the mycelium never absorbs it, so it is a waste of money.
http://www.fanaticus.com/gartz.htm This was done 5 years ago. Has anyone done it recently?
Edited by daussaulit (11/07/02 01:23 PM)
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I_Stain_Blue
abominableshroomman

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 395
Loc: police state
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1028535 - 11/06/02 02:41 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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but where can you get tryptamine hcl?
-------------------- Be Here Now
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: I_Stain_Blue]
#1028541 - 11/06/02 02:43 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I found a place that sell it along with other tryptamine derivatives for chemical research. So anyone have any information? I can't post up the link, but if you want it PM me.
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browho4d
The Brody Who?What?


Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 299
Loc: Incoherent
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1028619 - 11/06/02 03:01 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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This shits high 25 grams $330. Kinda high but, I don;t know how much is needed each time. It's been discontinued at health stores but some stores still have a stockpile of it.
-------------------- THIS PROCEDURE HAS NOT BEEN VALIDATED FOR STERILITY HOWEVER THOUGH IT HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH DUSTER.
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whiterasta
Day careobserver

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1028690 - 11/06/02 03:16 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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A man of great power and wisdom once told me "USE THE SEARCH" but i'll just say yes it works with tryptamine HCl and probably with a number of other interesting relatives(the 5-MeO derivitive?) .Not NEARLY enough research has been done in this area.I can forsee a future of "tailored" fungi with a multitude of psychadelic profiles such as Peele's Lepiota grown on a woodrose or morning glory substrate .But until restrictions on research are likely to remain for some time we may never know if these peices of information have not already been developed. WR
-------------------- To old for this place
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: browho4d]
#1028699 - 11/06/02 03:19 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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well if you clicked on the link and read the article, it says you need at the maximum of .1 grams per jar. So technically that's enough for 250 jars, and that comes to about $1.32 per jar to add the tryptamine HCL.
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browho4d
The Brody Who?What?


Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 299
Loc: Incoherent
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1028745 - 11/06/02 03:34 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well first of all I'm to busy to click on your link sorry. Thats good news then 1.32 is a good price for up to three times the potency.
-------------------- THIS PROCEDURE HAS NOT BEEN VALIDATED FOR STERILITY HOWEVER THOUGH IT HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH DUSTER.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: whiterasta]
#1028774 - 11/06/02 03:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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so im guessing your saying taking the properties from the plants used in decomposition to take on those properties... but what about like the mush left over after cooking san pedro or peyote. could that be used as an enhancemnt in your grow? or is there properties of the cactus that would kill the shrooms or provide it with no nutrients or is it to hard to break down? nutrients useless?
-------------------- What?
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: Zero7a1]
#1029697 - 11/06/02 07:18 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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there are no nutrients, and there are no other plants that would be added to the substrate, just a tryptamine salt, nothing more than a chemical. It's a precursor to psilocybin and psilocin.
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rhizo
herb eater
Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: whiterasta]
#1030244 - 11/06/02 09:47 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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"A man of great power and wisdom once told me "USE THE SEARCH" but i'll just say yes it works with tryptamine HCl and probably with a number of other interesting relatives(the 5-MeO derivitive?)"
The 5meo derivitive is 5-methoxy-tryptamine(aka melatonin)? So if you have 3 mg pills of melatonin one could add 25-30 pills to a cake for a small scale test. I wonder if the filler would be a problem.
-------------------- An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: rhizo]
#1030368 - 11/06/02 10:18 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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thank you for restating the obvious. If you followed that link it you will have read using tryptamine will increase the potency and that it has been done successfuly. But anyone do it it more recently? because if it'll increase the psilocybin content by more than 5x, and the psilocin content even higher, why isn't everyone doing it?
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1032017 - 11/07/02 10:06 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know of a canadian supplier of very potent (8 gms an ayahuasca dose) Mimosa Hostilis rootbark. The cost is 60$ canadian for a hundred grams. I brewed up some DMT tea the other day and used it in place of water in my Tapalpa Cubensis substrate. The spores germinated yesterday, I'll post and let you all know how it works out.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1037889 - 11/08/02 11:05 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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what if you extracted the prime alkaloids from mescaline? would this be just like lacing the chemical? i guessi would have to know a lot about chemistry and to understand that you cant cross alkaloids when the chemicals in one substance dont respond to those in another like mescaline and trytophan. if i knew the chemicals in mescaline right now i would have posted them but i understood why you would the main stem ingredient on the cakes or whatever but i was just wondering if there would be anyway to fuse properties of psychadelics. i dont know if you have ever seen dune or not but i think it would be cool if there was something like the spice. but whose to say thats not shrooms... i dont know but thinking about that movie and what they did is pretty interesting.
-------------------- What?
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bowling-name
sleuth

Registered: 09/24/02
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: daussaulit]
#1038072 - 11/09/02 12:54 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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" because if it'll increase the psilocybin content by more than 5x, and the psilocin content even higher, why isn't everyone doing it?"
While I don't claim to speak for the Shroomery as a whole. I can think of a number of reasons:
1) Many people who cultivate mushrooms do so because they want to have a "natural" form of psychedelic. Arguably adding a research chemical (even one that is benign) would breach this philosophy as it would be an "unnatural" adulterant to what is to many people a sacred sacrament.
2) While the per-unit cost is not bad, the initial investment is prohibitive, especially for the beginner. That, and in the U.S. (like MOST chemicals these days), tryptamine is a watched chemical. So a forged identity and mail drop are acquisition prerequisites for security reasons. Rolling your own requires an investment of time to understand the chemistry in excess of the amount of time it takes to understand the entire cultivation process.
3) Potency is only one of MANY appreciable aspects of cultivation. Even the more advanced growers often like to preserve and perfect the individual qualities of each strain, even comparing the type of trip each strain results in. These distinctions might be overly-subjective (I've always suspected the "heady" vs. "stoning" trip differentiations from satvia vs. indica mj plants were disengenous since the only known active alkaloid, THC might exist in similar quantities despite strain), but mushroom cultivators like to fuss over their babies just as much as mj growers. Not everyone will be happy to put their hard-won fungus on "steroids." Old habits die hard, especially as newer growers often only learn the methods but not the UNDERLYING PRINCIPLES of mycology from their established mentors. This results in what PF terms "pop mycology," of which precursors in your substrate are not a part.
4) From a commercial standpoint, those who sell their mushrooms would not be able to charge much more than what is a standard price, no matter how much more potent their cubes are. Connisseurs might be willing to shell out a little more for a particular strain, but skeptical buyers might suspect they are getting the DEA's description of 'magic mushrooms:' a dried edible variety sprinkled with LSD. 
So, despite the potential benefits, I would venture to say that most newbies are not aware of this possibility, and most old timers don't see a need for it.
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Remy
Bitches Brew


Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: daussaulit]
#1038720 - 11/09/02 11:25 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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L-Tryptophan, the natural precursor to psilocybian and psilocin is a cheap and easy to get supplement.
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: Remy]
#1038726 - 11/09/02 11:30 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah, it's really easy to get, but what's the point? I've read about two different experiments that used tryptophan and nothing happened, it didn't get absorbed my the myeclium, just as stated in the 1st post.
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vaporbrains
Cub Scout

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 539
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: daussaulit]
#1039038 - 11/09/02 02:32 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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you have to convert the tryptophan to tryptamine. where can i get the tryptophan, remy?
-------------------- All refrences to and statements concerning mushrooms, mushroom cultivation, and mushroom related paraphrenalia refer specifically to the cultivation of legal species.
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daussaulit
Forgetful

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,894
Loc: Earth
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: vaporbrains]
#1039078 - 11/09/02 03:01 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I read over the process of the conversion process, but due to my lack of chemistry skills, I am stumped. I did find a vendor online that sells tryptamine HCL.
Where can you get tryptophan? www.google.com
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: bowling-name]
#1041629 - 11/10/02 06:44 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't see what is "unnatural" about adding plant matter or an isolated alkaloid to the mushroom substrate. The mycelium absorbs the tryptamines and produces its own. Seems like a pretty natural process. I can think of a lot of good reasons to do this: It's cheap, it's natural, one would only need to grow a few cakes to get a personal year's stash, and it impresses friends. Sounds good to me.
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hsalf
bad O lover
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 147
Loc: not from around here
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: daussaulit]
#1041695 - 11/10/02 07:30 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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them_26 wrote this. Also floating out there is a thread under the same user name that lists the DEA's type 1 & 2 chemical watch lists. And please PLEASE do not use Advance Scientific EVER for your chems. There is strong evidence that they are a DEA front.
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GhostPanther
herbsman

Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: daussaulit]
#1041878 - 11/10/02 09:21 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok, this has been brought up too many times to count here... whats the point of adding a relatively expensive chem to your mushroom substrate just to create more psilocybin? I dont know what you are growing, but here is a inexpensive way to create more psilocybin in your shrooms: grow different species man! Cubes arent the only ones out there, try the panaleous species or start a bed of azures outdoors, there are so many other far easier & less expensive ways to do it. the psilocybin & psilocin content of these is much greater than of cubensis. your goal of creating some type of "super shroom" is possible, but why bother?
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine


Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: daussaulit]
#1044993 - 11/11/02 10:02 PM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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be very very skeptical of anyone chemical distributor that will sell any watched compounds to _any_ individuals without proper DEA documentation. Especially with this 9/11 bullshit going on. They have added even more compounds to the watched list. Everything from acetone to sassafrass oil is watched now. Please do some serious homework before deciding to buy research chemicals. This is no laughing matter.
Seeing as how mushrooms are relatively easy to cultivate and extractions of the active alkaloids *ha ha* are not too difficult either, it seems to be an inordinate amount of work for the gains you might get. If you are doing this to impress people, then you are going down the wrong path already, but in time hubris might turn out to be a mean bedfellow. (not talking to you dassaulit )
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: GhostPanther]
#1045482 - 11/12/02 02:21 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree - cubies are weak whether precursors are added or not - try better psilocybes
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Anonymous
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Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms. [Re: vaporbrains]
#1057841 - 11/16/02 09:25 AM (22 years, 3 months ago) |
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In response to Poster: vaporbrains Subject: Re: Tryptamine HCl and making more potent shrooms.
you have to convert the tryptophan to tryptamine. where can i get the tryptophan, remy? although a ban still exists in the US due to deaths tied to one batch that used geneticly modified bacteria to synthesize tryptophan
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-tryp1.html
the fda did allow the use of 5-hydroxytrptophan as an over the counter replacement. i don't know enough about chemistry to know if this could be converted to tryptamine... i would love to have our board experts look at this...
another alternative i'm considering is taking advantage of legislation passed early this year allowing doctors to prescribe l-tryptophan... any knowlegable physician who understands nutrition and accepts supplementation would easilly write a prescription. this is an essential amino acid found abundantly in milk, turkey and other foods... here is a link
http://depressionvitamins.com/tryptophan/
my personal experience with tryptophan in the past was amazing... i used it to reach amazingly healthy levels of sleep... my dreaming seemed more lucid and extremely vivid. i also found it very easy to recall my dreams... it bummed me out when they pulled it... in retrospect i'm more interested in it now...
vaporbrains... your doctor would be prescibing a pharmaceutical grade amino acid to u. is tryptophan easilly converted?
this link will make u question the motives behind the ban to some degree:
http://www.ceri.com/trypto.htm
i hope the links help u.... please let me know ur thoughts... peace
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bright21
Stranger
Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 1
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: Anonymous]
#5116507 - 12/28/05 07:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am from china, I can sell some tryptamine derivatives, such as :N,N-dipropyltryptamine 61-52-9 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(n)-propylthiophenethylamine 207740-26-9 4-hydroxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine 132328-45-1 5-Hydroxytryptamine 153-98-0 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine 1019-45-0 5-methoxy-alpha-methyltryptamine 1137-04-8 6-methoxyharmalan 3589-73-9
YOu can contact with us at : kemsales@hotmail.com. Minium order will be 10gram of each of them.
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neoboom
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/05
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: bright21]
#5118662 - 12/29/05 11:39 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Guys in America...
use your head.. with the spying going on...
the last thing you want to do is purchase a DEA watch list precursor from another country.
Look at my tek.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5113718/an/0/page/0
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WormholeSurfer
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 180
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Re: Tryptamine HCL and Tryptophan [Re: neoboom]
#5119316 - 12/29/05 03:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I remember reading somewhere that bananas contain a lot of tryptamines
Has anyone grown shrooms on bananas before?
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FungiFood
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/06
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Lets say SWIM has experience in a field that would help you guys out. If SWIM made an account to gauge the number of people who would want a certain "fungal food" SWIM would want to know how many people would be interested before getting serious. It would probably be alot cheaper than the price you would pay from a RC site, and several times cheaper than the price you would pay from a real chem distributor. Do I see any hands?
SWIM would be willing to do a few small test orders ~50mg, so that you know this is legit. SWIM is fully aware that 50mg makes only 10mL of 25mM solution, hardly enough for any large scale or multiple applications. The test orders would be solely to establish the trust and hopefully give someone who has access to some qualitative analysis (other than SWIM) a change to give a word or two about quality. The test orders would probably be limited to the first few orders. I would assume that others would vouch for me after that.
Mods. Let me know if this "gauging interest" post is inappropriate.
Edited by FungiFood (01/04/06 04:59 PM)
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