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Mycorial
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Pinning Ratios (Pics)
#10280660 - 05/03/09 09:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Currently I'm working on a rye seed substrate (3 inches deep) with a 50/50 peat verm casing layer (1/2 inch deep).
I seem to be noticing an interesting trend. My pinning is perfect, no aborts from what I can tell, just pins every god damned where.
The issue is that about 95% of them remain dormant while I get about 5-15 average fruits a flush.
I'm using a PMP setup and humidity/temp/light/fae is perfect. Is this attributed to the lack of moisture available to the substrate?
Here's what I'm looking at:
Any help appreciated,
Thanks in advance,
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280679 - 05/03/09 09:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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What I want to accomplish is having all pins develop at the same time, or at least have a lot more come up during each flush.
I've noticed better performance in my trays when I dunk them after the first flush, but even then growth of all available pins is still a 20% ratio at best.
I'm on flush 4, and I'm getting some decent sized fruits still, I was just always hoping to have the majority of my set develop like I've seen in a good many time lapse videos.
My guess is that the videos I'm watching have much deeper substrate depths, but from what I hear its counter productive to do so, so probably not? heh
sigh
I love this hobby... Always keeping me on my toes.
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MrSpike
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280712 - 05/03/09 09:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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How high is the humidity? Looks like it might be a little off by the Myc at the base of your fruits and the white on the caps of the failed pins.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: MrSpike]
#10280731 - 05/03/09 09:19 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Gorgeous pinset you have there.
I'd say your main problem is lack of resources, particularly water. If you could use bigger, deeper tubs while maintaining the rest of what you're doing right- you'd be golden.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Doc_T]
#10280753 - 05/03/09 09:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Humidity is perfect, my hygrometer is calibrated and pegged. From what I understand seeing some fuzzy growth around the base of the stalks is a good sign as its pulling more moisture out of the air?
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280766 - 05/03/09 09:25 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure I've seen some good pin sets from a substrate depth around 3-5 inches, that's about what I'm running, so hopefully it isn't that.
I'll be messing around with spawning to bulk in the next few months, but for now I'm trying to get these trays done before I start leasing out more real estate in my chamber.
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potatonet
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280776 - 05/03/09 09:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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multispore or isolate?
-------------------- In the Quechua language of Peru there are over 1000 words for "potato"
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: potatonet]
#10280786 - 05/03/09 09:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Burma, multi, three of my casings are from the same method, all have had very nice pin sets. I've always made sure my substrate/casing is even on the surface. So far it's worked like a charm.
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MastaKa0s
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: potatonet]
#10280794 - 05/03/09 09:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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my guess would be more water. good luck man!
-------------------- What? No. We can't stop here. This is bat country...
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280798 - 05/03/09 09:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm assuming by your question it may be that since I haven't isolated a strain with favorable growth characteristics I can't assume my pinsets will all share the same properties?
I was assuming that once a substrate unifies under one "umbrella" that really its just one strain characteristic and not varied per mushroom?
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280809 - 05/03/09 09:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Masta, that's what I'm thinking too, but it will be a week or so until I find out for sure.
Since I want to keep the casing layer intact I've injected some H2O into the substrate with a syringe. 2CCs 6 locations spread out evenly, as I've seen suggested.
I might hold to the syringe method in the future if it works, I really hate drowning the casing surface, and if I can give the substrate a little hydration without the mess I'm all for it.
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potatonet
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280817 - 05/03/09 09:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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multispores will consistently have uneven pinsets...
thats all I have experienced with them anywho
-------------------- In the Quechua language of Peru there are over 1000 words for "potato"
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: potatonet]
#10280856 - 05/03/09 09:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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So each mushroom has its own growth characteristics dependent upon what part of the substrate its associated with and which "parent" it had at the beginning of the colonization?
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280866 - 05/03/09 09:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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It looks like my Agar/Isolate studies will be required soon if this is the case.
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280949 - 05/03/09 09:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've been digging around the search engine and still nothing. There's an overwhelming amount of information about getting even pin sets, but I can't seem to find anything on this particular issue.
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potatonet
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10280964 - 05/03/09 10:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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isolating will also determine pin growth speed and fruiting point. not just the ability for the sub to form even pin sets...
-------------------- In the Quechua language of Peru there are over 1000 words for "potato"
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Doc_T
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: potatonet]
#10280994 - 05/03/09 10:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Haven't tried it with bulk, but I've but verm reservoirs into cakes. Too late for that tub, but with the next, try making four or six holes with a sharpie or your finger, and filling with verm The mycelium will grow into it, and you can add water easily.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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potatonet
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Doc_T]
#10281253 - 05/03/09 11:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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there is a very good example of this on this forum...
someone has a PESH isolate on a cake and they were all the same size, they all pinned at the same time, and they all finished fruiting at about the same time.
it was one of those epic cakes, I cant remember whos it was though... its in their sig...
-------------------- In the Quechua language of Peru there are over 1000 words for "potato"
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282477 - 05/04/09 07:02 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks guys, I've learned something new. And reaffirmed why isolates are so important to the next step in this hobby.
Exciting new territory
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282497 - 05/04/09 07:09 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also, I love your idea Doc, the Verm will retain the moisture and the substrate will tap it as it needs it I'm guessing? Rather than just throwing 2ccs at it and saying here, "all or nothing!".
Interesting.
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Mycorial
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282521 - 05/04/09 07:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also I guess next time I see some monstrous fruit off of the first flush that I should probably get a clone sample from it and use it to knock up another grain jar.
Question: Taking a multispore print from a promising fruit is different from taking a piece out of it in what way? The flesh of the fruit uses a different growing point than spores do?
I've always been fascinated with how virtually any part of the organism can be used to propagate it further, I'm just having a hard time grasping the differences between the different sources.
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kingjames488
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282550 - 05/04/09 07:40 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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nice lookin pinset.
I heard somewhere that pins sometimes for for a few flushes at one time, but more should come in then 5-15 >.>
try spraying the casing pretty good then fanning really well a couple times.
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Doc_T
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282772 - 05/04/09 08:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycorial said: Question: Taking a multispore print from a promising fruit is different from taking a piece out of it in what way?
Cloning from a piece of flesh usually gives you one set of genetic information. With a spore print, you've got some random variation.
When you select a culture for cloning, look at potency as well as size or quick pinning. Take several samples from several different fruits, grow them out, and see which does best overall.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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whereismymind
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10282783 - 05/04/09 08:54 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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i think that you get so small shrooms because you get many , if you had few you would have much bigger fruits , in the end your overall yield will be more ore less the same , depending on your environment substrate conditions etc..
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Mycorial
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Thanks Doc,
The only thing I'm still pondering about is the genetic inheritance during the various stages of the mushroom's life cycle. It sounds like the closest thing to a sector extraction is the fruit body itself. It would be like going in and cutting out a sector from the substrate itself in a way right? At least where characteristics are concerned?
Looks like I'll be doing more research tonight lol.
Thanks again for your time everyone, the responses are greatly appreciated
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Breakfast Crew
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Re: Pinning Ratios (Pics) [Re: Mycorial]
#10283072 - 05/04/09 10:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ive always thought dormant pins are caused by picking fruits. Wouldn't picking fruits disturb the mycelium into repairing itself?
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