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OfflineAarondx
FUBAR
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Just East of Uranus
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Casing - What's the Problem here?
    #1026690 - 11/06/02 03:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

This is my first time casing, though I have gone through the cake phase.

My casing procedure is I followed the 50/50+ mix. I covered the pans (aluminum baking pan) with foil and let them grow for about 2 weeks. Uncovered, fanned 3 times daily, lowered the temperature, and allowed light. All this to initiate pinning. Also did a light misting probably one time a day.

Lots of mushrooms grew, but they were very SMALL. On cakes most of my mature mushrooms were several times bigger than the mushrooms I got from this casing.

What could be the problem? What could cause the small mushrooms? Any help or insight would be appreciated!


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I was so poor growing up ... if I wasn't a boy ...I'd have nothing to play with.
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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1026821 - 11/06/02 04:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

did u check the weight of a flush off a cake and a flush off the casing? How many cakes in the casing. Thinner casing layer sometimes produces smaller fruits


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OfflineDrummer
CelestialMechanic
Male

Registered: 08/16/00
Posts: 703
Loc: SE Michigan
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Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1027084 - 11/06/02 06:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I would guess a lack of nutrients. Here when my squirrel did 50/50's with millet, or rye the results were very unfavorable.


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People don't want other people to get high, because if you get high, you might see the falsity of the fabric of the society we live in.

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Edited by Drummer (11/06/02 06:20 AM)


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OfflineTheta
TranscendentalExplorer

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 352
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1027199 - 11/06/02 08:21 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

Lots of mushrooms grew, but they were very SMALL. On cakes most of my mature mushrooms were several times bigger than the mushrooms I got from this casing.



I just began sifting through one of Stamets's books. Regarding size of mushrooms, he says that substrate particulate size may play a factor here. Chunkier substrate may lead to bigger mushrooms. Perhaps your substrate and/or casing layer is to compressed.

How small were the ones that grew? Were they well developed or poorly developed?


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1027317 - 11/06/02 09:44 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

a theory: if your casing starts with a lot of pins and they all grow up together sharing the same nutrient source, they can't all be big unless your nutrient source is unusually strong (i.e., poo instead of BRF and verm). chances are you end up with the same or more weight than from a cake, but since many more mushrooms grow at the same time on a casing they will tend to be smaller than a few growing on a cake.


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OfflineTheta
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Registered: 10/29/02
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Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Bilge]
    #1027573 - 11/06/02 11:34 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

a theory:...



Interesting.

Let me ask a question to those of you with experience. Do you find that your shrooms grow bigger on a PF cake than the do in a casing such as 50/50 made with PF cakes?


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Theta]
    #1027591 - 11/06/02 11:42 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

my friend recently allowed a cake to fruit for a flush and then cased it in 50/50+. all shrooms since have been smaller (but much more plentiful) than from just the cake. no pictures of the cake flush, but...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Pictures&Number=1018228&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1

the cake fruits were thicker but there weren't nearly as many.


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OfflineTheta
TranscendentalExplorer

Registered: 10/29/02
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Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Bilge]
    #1027652 - 11/06/02 12:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

my friend recently allowed a cake to fruit for a flush and then cased it in 50/50+. all shrooms since have been smaller (but much more plentiful) than from just the cake.



Any idea how much was produced by weight per cake as compared to per cased cake?


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Theta]
    #1027658 - 11/06/02 12:15 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

no, he hasn't done such experiments. given the results with his first casings, he is not inclined to do cakes again. but what i've read is the weight tends to be similar but the flushes on casings are more dramatic.


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OfflineTheta
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Registered: 10/29/02
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Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Bilge]
    #1027674 - 11/06/02 12:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

no, he hasn't done such experiments. given the results with his first casings, he is not inclined to do cakes again. but what i've read is the weight tends to be similar but the flushes on casings are more dramatic.



So you're saying that you've come to believe that a 3 cake casing will not yield a greater mass of shrooms than 3 stand alone cakes?


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Theta]
    #1027679 - 11/06/02 12:24 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

that is my understanding based soley on posts in these forums. the question has been asked many times "which is better, cakes or casings?" and it seems most folks prefers casings for the larger flushes in shorter times. but i don't recall anyone saying casings will give you more mass in the end.


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OfflineTheta
TranscendentalExplorer

Registered: 10/29/02
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Bilge]
    #1027686 - 11/06/02 12:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

that is my understanding based soley on posts in these forums. the question has been asked many times "which is better, cakes or casings?" and it seems most folks prefers casings for the larger flushes in shorter times. but i don't recall anyone saying casings will give you more mass in the end.



Interesting. I think this will be a worthy point of experimentation.


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Bilge]
    #1027687 - 11/06/02 12:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

on the other hand, the faq says

"Casings can be better than straight cakes because:
1.) They produce larger flushes, both in terms of the size, weight, and gross/net harvest.
2.) They give the hobbyist a better understanding of the mushroom life cycle. Not only for psilocybes, but learning the basic life cycle can introduce the new hobbyist into the world of gourmet and medicinal mushrooms.
3.) Casings are often a "stepping -stone" into further, more discreet and sophisticated methods of mushroom production."

http://shroomery.org/faq/faq.php?display=faq&nr=49&catnr=4&prog=1&lang=en


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Theta]
    #1027691 - 11/06/02 12:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

  Interesting. I think this will be a worthy point of experimentation.





absolutely!  :smile:


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1028204 - 11/06/02 03:31 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Commercial producers of edible mushrooms use grain spawn, mixed into very large beds of substrate.

What's that tell you?

It tells me that, this is the method to use, if you wish to obtain optimal yeilds.

If optimal yeilds came from "cakes", or anything like cakes, that is what they would use.

They don't.

What does that tell you?

6T



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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: SixTango]
    #1028243 - 11/06/02 03:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

the issue is whether cakes or cased cakes produce more. so we're dealing with cakes from the get-go here. as you stated, large producers don't use cakes at all so the comparison isn't really accurate.


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OfflineAarondx
FUBAR
Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Just East of Uranus
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1029693 - 11/06/02 09:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the input. I probably used 4 cakes... 2 sliced into 1 inch thick pieces, and the other two crumbled over them.

I have about 10 cakes ready to be worked with, so I'll probably try a thicker casing layer. I just know, from all the pictures of flushes, mine was pittiful due to size.

I'd say, after casing 8 cakes (two per baking pan) the first flush yielded 11 grams dried.


--------------------
I was so poor growing up ... if I wasn't a boy ...I'd have nothing to play with.
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OfflineTheta
TranscendentalExplorer

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 352
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Casing - What's the Problem here? [Re: Aarondx]
    #1029720 - 11/06/02 09:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

I have about 10 cakes ready to be worked with, so I'll probably try a thicker casing layer.



Seeing as how you're having relative success with your cultivation, why not take 6T's advise and try some bulk subs?


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