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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27373372 - 07/03/21 10:56 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

greenladel said:
i always hated that quote because it convinces people to put all their trust into somebody else that they do not know and have full faith that they are being completely honest.



I very much disagree with this.The quote is suggesting observation of sociological themes and the actions of the masses over time. I cannot see at all how it is suggesting that one 'put all their trust into somebody else' - unless it were appended to say 'Those who don't learn history from _______ are doomed to repeat it' - because the quote is not suggesting anyone take the word of another.

It seems to me like you are projecting a lot in your deciphering of the quote - which we all do to an extent - but it looks like you're tacking on a strong feeling of mistrust which does not belong to a quote of such inherent wisdom.

It is truly a great point to remember, and I can't see how it could be viewed as anything but, regardless of subtly different wording.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27373554 - 07/04/21 04:08 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

greenladel said:
i always hated that quote because it convinces people to put all their trust into somebody else that they do not know and have full faith that they are being completely honest.



I very much disagree with this.The quote is suggesting observation of sociological themes and the actions of the masses over time. I cannot see at all how it is suggesting that one 'put all their trust into somebody else' - unless it were appended to say 'Those who don't learn history from _______ are doomed to repeat it' - because the quote is not suggesting anyone take the word of another.

It seems to me like you are projecting a lot in your deciphering of the quote - which we all do to an extent - but it looks like you're tacking on a strong feeling of mistrust which does not belong to a quote of such inherent wisdom.

It is truly a great point to remember, and I can't see how it could be viewed as anything but, regardless of subtly different wording.




to learn from history means to learn from books, documents, etc that are left behind. it is very easy to falsify those pieces of information, in fact we can already see that humans do this, even if it is not conscious, particularly where war (disagreements) is concerned, it is most certainly written by the victors, but the victors are not always honest. it is closed minded to just believe everything we read in the history books.
it may seem like i am projecting mistrust, but that is probably because i have seen how these things are manipulated in a way that you might not have considered. from my angle it seems to me like you are too easily convinced of an opinion based on perceived authority.

the key difference being that "learning from history" means to learn from recordings, but "remembering history" is to witness things for yourself (but this also comes with its own flaws).
as much as it sounds like my tin foil hat is on, it is just plain ignorant to assume the history books are accurate.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27373564 - 07/04/21 04:33 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Hey ho, agree to disagree I guess.

I would hate to live in a world where I was enveloped in such mistrust. Sounds bloody horrible. Just the fact that you are so quick to think I - of all people (if you knew anything about me you would know I am the last person to ever trust authority) - could be easily convinced, says just how unbalanced your position is. Projection, projection, projection.

Of course only a moron believes everything he reads, and of course much of history has been falsified, but it's not like it can be written so that up was down and black was white, so there clearly is some truth based on general consensus and the fact that humans hadn't torn down whatever was the literature of the time.

This aint Orwells 1984, and until we live in that world, the past cannot be falsified in the way you suggest.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27374666 - 07/05/21 04:17 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Hey ho, agree to disagree I guess.

I would hate to live in a world where I was enveloped in such mistrust. Sounds bloody horrible. Just the fact that you are so quick to think I - of all people (if you knew anything about me you would know I am the last person to ever trust authority) - could be easily convinced, says just how unbalanced your position is. Projection, projection, projection.

Of course only a moron believes everything he reads, and of course much of history has been falsified, but it's not like it can be written so that up was down and black was white, so there clearly is some truth based on general consensus and the fact that humans hadn't torn down whatever was the literature of the time.

This aint Orwells 1984, and until we live in that world, the past cannot be falsified in the way you suggest.




you said yourself these sources cannot be trusted, yet in the same post you say you trust them. i also did not suggest a particular way it has been falsified, that is your projection, not mine.
agree to disagree is the only outcome this can have.

whatever you decide to believe, it doesn't matter to me. i wish you the best of luck with all your decisions :heart:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27374667 - 07/05/21 04:20 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I trust people, not sources.

My world is rich with other humans, from all places and walks of life. They're all I need when it comes to knowing what history has gone before us. A book can lie to me. The look in a mans eyes cannot.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #27374706 - 07/05/21 06:17 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I trust people, not sources.

My world is rich with other humans, from all places and walks of life. They're all I need when it comes to knowing what history has gone before us. A book can lie to me. The look in a mans eyes cannot.




amen to that. i think we agree with each other but do not realize it.
the problem that leaves us with is our history can only go back as far as the age of a person.
until we discover a proper technology to see the past for ourselves we are all doomed :grin:

:peace:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27375128 - 07/05/21 02:05 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

People pass history on via word of mouth, over countless generations.

This is how it was for all the eons before written communication.

So I dispute absolutely that it goes only one generation back.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #27375815 - 07/06/21 02:14 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
People pass history on via word of mouth, over countless generations.

This is how it was for all the eons before written communication.

So I dispute absolutely that it goes only one generation back.




this conversation is driving the topic far off the rails. im out.
:peace: :heart:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27376246 - 07/06/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

We're allowed to have conversations here. That is the purpose of a message board, after all. You started a conversation, and that's fine.

So in your opinion, you cannot trust anything of the world before the time of the oldest person you know?

Do you believe absolutely nothing of what is generally accepted history?

You say you've seen it manipulated - how so?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #27376708 - 07/06/21 06:09 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
We're allowed to have conversations here. That is the purpose of a message board, after all. You started a conversation, and that's fine.

So in your opinion, you cannot trust anything of the world before the time of the oldest person you know?

Do you believe absolutely nothing of what is generally accepted history?

You say you've seen it manipulated - how so?




i thought it would be rude to derail this lovely topic, particularly with something that seems to be so taboo, we all know how well those conversations go on this forum :laugh: it already took a turn for the worst so i would rather not perpetuate it.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: greenladel]
    #27377026 - 07/06/21 10:42 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I started a thread on it.

I can't understand what could be taboo?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical and Spiritual Quotes [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #27383797 - 07/12/21 12:28 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize".

- Voltaire (maybe)


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Offlinebenjoseph78
Surfer
Male
Registered: 07/15/21
Posts: 3
Loc: Oz
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: deCypher]
    #27388375 - 07/15/21 08:10 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Clarity undoes confusion by definition


--------------------
benjoe78


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Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 51 minutes
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: benjoseph78]
    #27390047 - 07/16/21 09:41 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

benjoseph78 said:
Clarity undoes confusion by definition




By one limited definition. You haven't included an attribution.

One can see what is happening, but it can be unclear how to act.


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Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
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Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South Flag
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: falcon] * 3
    #27412534 - 08/02/21 11:30 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

"One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
Camus


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Offlinefalcon
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Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 51 minutes
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: pineninja] * 1
    #27412753 - 08/03/21 08:08 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

“There’s birth,” he grumbled, “there’s death, and in between there’s maintenance.”  -Tom Robbins


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OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 2 days, 20 hours
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: falcon]
    #27424902 - 08/12/21 05:22 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

“An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.” - Buddha


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27424904 - 08/12/21 05:27 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

All know the way; few actually walk it.
Not engaging in ignorance is wisdom.
Freeing oneself from words is liberation.
Many roads lead to the path, but basically there are only two: reason and practice.
As long as you're enthralled by a lifeless form, you're not free.
To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature.
According to the Sutras, evil deeds result in hardships and good deeds result in blessings.
Buddhas move freely through birth and death, appearing and disappearing at will.
But while success and failure depend on conditions, the mind neither waxes nor wanes.
Your nature is the Buddha.

-  Bodhidharma



--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineCory Duchesne
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Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
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Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #27425405 - 08/12/21 01:50 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

"A liar is worse to have around than a thief .... yet I would rather cope with a liar than with a person who takes self righteous pride in telling the truth, let the chips fall where they may - meaning 'no matter who is hurt by it, no matter what innocent life is ruined.' A person who takes smug pride in telling the blunt truth is a sadist not a saint." - Robert A. Heinlein - To Sail Beyond the Sunset


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


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Offlinegreenladel


Registered: 05/27/20
Posts: 636
Last seen: 4 months, 13 days
Re: Your Favorite Philosophical Quotes [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #27427397 - 08/14/21 12:35 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:
"A liar is worse to have around than a thief .... yet I would rather cope with a liar than with a person who takes self righteous pride in telling the truth, let the chips fall where they may - meaning 'no matter who is hurt by it, no matter what innocent life is ruined.' A person who takes smug pride in telling the blunt truth is a sadist not a saint." - Robert A. Heinlein - To Sail Beyond the Sunset




sounds like robert A. Heinlein doesn't like to feel stupid. imo that is one of the most self destructive traits an individual can have. personally if i have learnt something i am happy, i don't care if the person who taught me was smug about it, i just care that they helped me learn.
i find this dislike of feeling stupid to be one of the best things to ensure one always stays stupid.


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