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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1028043 -

And?

Read the rest of my post.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Xlea321]
    #1028123 -

After decades of prejudice, fear-mongering and constant government and media demonisation of drugs why would you expect people suddenly to reject all that and vote for their legalisation?

Sigh. I was illustrating a point about the dangers of Democracy. Defenders of Democracy such as yourself use (in essence) the argument that whatever the majority believes in this week is the right thing to do. No one ever stops to ask WHY the majority think that way, they just accept as a given that the best way to run a human society is to follow the herd, even if the herd is in favor of violating the rights of others.

People may be in favor of keeping drugs illegal for any number of reasons. For example, I doubt very much that any professional drug-dealers voted to decriminalize weed. The thing is, from the point of view of the legal system, it DOESN'T MATTER what their reasons are. It makes no difference whether they believe weed should be illegal because they think it leads to Rap and Hip Hop music, or they think it makes their kids stupid, or they think it causes cancer. What MATTERS is that they have the power to keep it illegal.

Locking someone up for consuming a naturally-occurring plant is quite obviously immoral regardless of how many people think otherwise, or WHY they think that way. The fact that the majority DON'T think it is immoral doesn't give them the right to violate the rights of others -- except, of course, in a Democracy.

pinky


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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1028145 -

No one ever stops to ask WHY the majority think that way

What are you talking about? I've just explained to you that the majority of people didn't make drugs illegal in the first place. It took a tremendous amount of propaganda and fear-mongering to create a climate of fear we have had for the last 70 years.

You cannot suddenly decide to call a vote after 70 years of disinformation and expect a positive result. As you prove with your every post, propaganda is highly effective.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Xlea321]
    #1028275 -

You cannot suddenly decide to call a vote after 70 years of disinformation and expect a positive result.

No? Then why did California voters vote for the use of medical marijuana and Arizona voters did not? Is it not true that the DEA propaganda reaches all major markets?

And thank you for so handily illustrating my point. What you are saying, in essence, is that the voters in Nevada are too dumb to realize how to vote correctly. You blame it on government sponsored propaganda, others blame it on apathy or ignorance or whatever, but it comes down to the same article of faith; if everyone knew all the facts on the marijuana issue, they would vote to decriminalize it.

Well guess what? Not everyone DOES know the facts about marijuana use, and there are a hell of a lot of people who will never make the slightest effort to learn the facts. All that matters, from a practical standpoint, is that they voted to keep it illegal. The majority (albeit a brainwashed, ill-informed or apathetic majority) wins again, but that's okay because Democracy is the best form of government.

Now let's substitute some other issue for "marijuana". Something like prostitution or gambling or gun ownership or cigarette smoke or the military draft or whether or not Saddam Hussein should be forced to abide by the terms of the surrender agreement he signed or whether or not the Kyoto protocols make sense.

If we were to have a nation-wide referendum on any of these issues, how could we know that the MAJORITY decision is a neutral, un-brainwashed, well-informed one? Answer: we can't, but it DOESN'T MATTER anyway, since in a Democracy all must be bound by the decision of the majority, no matter how blatantly absurd said decision may be.

This is why I say pure Democracy is a dangerous form of government. The majority is NOT always right.

pinky


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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1028657 -

You cannot suddenly decide to call a vote after 70 years of disinformation and expect a positive result.

No? Then why did California voters vote for the use of medical marijuana and Arizona voters did not? Is it not true that the DEA propaganda reaches all major markets?

The fact that medical MJ has been legalized in several states, personal possession virtually decriminalized in some, and the fact that Arizona and Nevada had significant MJ decriminlization questions on their ballots show me that the attitudes the US has held for almost a century are slowly starting to change. A lot of people are starting to see through all the government and media propaganda, and public support for more liberal drug policies is on the rise. Alex is right, you can't just suddenly expect these things to change overnight. It's a long, slow process and it's going to take a lot of work to make it happen, but it can, and it will happen if enough people are willing to make the change. You can't stop the people. In the end, the people rule this country, not those crusty old white guys in the white house. It's already happening, but we can't just give up because a couple measures failed to pass this year. Two years is not a long time. We'll get our chance to speak again.



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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
www.drugsense.org

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: psilo25]
    #1028781 -

good call , i agree with you 100%


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"Well if it isnt my friend Mr.McCraig, with a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg"

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1028980 -

I was going to ask why you talk to idiots but I remembered the reason you already gave to me.

Nevermind.

Forget I was here.

Cheers,

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: ]
    #1029289 -

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1029553 -

In reply to:
Then why did California voters vote for the use of medical marijuana and Arizona voters did not? Is it not true that the DEA propaganda reaches all major markets?


California is diferent from any other state in many ways, one of them is the fact that many California cities are breading grounds for political activists and California puts out verry seasoned activist groups with LOTS of clout in state government...

Californians for Compassionate Use, the group that invented Prop 215, headed by Dennis Perone fought for 20 years before it got on the ballot, when it finally did the supporters and organizers went all out, some even selling their houses, taking out loans, putting off college and deadicateing 15 hour days 7 days a week promoteing and lobying for the iniative...

People in other states work pretty hard on their iniatives but I doubt that their are as many people willing to risk their homes and careers over it as many Californians did...

California also had a LARGE group of doctors and SEVERAL medical groups along with many county police agencies on board in support of the iniative, focus wasnt put on decriminalization of marijuana but more on the medical necessity of marijuana.

One of the guys I was most excited to meet at the Prop 215 celebration party was this guy.
George Zimmer, President and founder of The Mens Wharehouse. Yup, he was one of the biggest supporters by being the largest contributer of cash.

Who would have thunk it...?


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

Edited by GabbaDj (11/06/02 06:51 PM)

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: Phred]
    #1030736 -

how could we know that the MAJORITY decision is a neutral, un-brainwashed, well-informed one?

More democracy in big corporate media corporations would be the first step. If 70 years ago the media owners had to go to the american people and ask them "Shall we band together and systematically lie, decieve and scare the american public for the next 70 years about drugs or not?". I don't think there would be any problem with making drugs legal. The fact that there is so little democracy in america that 12-15 heads of the major news corporations have the power to spread disinformation is the root of the problem. We need more democracy and more democracy in big business.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: no smoking Pot in Nevada [Re: ]
    #1030805 -

I was going to ask why you talk to idiots but I remembered the reason you already gave to me.

Is this what you call "non-defence"?  :grin:

Wierd. I havn't bothered responding to you in months and yet you still seem to be nursing some kind of grudge against me. Is it really worth it? Let your hatreds go and find peace in your life.


Forget I was here.

Ok  :laugh:

Seeing as you never add anything to threads but plaground insults you arn't going to be missed.

Take care. Think about what I've said. 


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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