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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10260218 - 04/30/09 01:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly. There is desire but it is not 'my' desire.

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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Registered: 03/29/07
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: andrewss]
    #10260229 - 04/30/09 01:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

damn well i always thought that the very striving is a desire...but it always starts with that striving... right?

but then i thought your kinda sposed to give up that desire but idk its prolly impossible to give up all desire... well actually they say transcend desire...so you would give it up without actually giving it up

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #10260231 - 04/30/09 01:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shouldn't we still keep the desire to help alleviate other people's suffering?





THIS IS THE MOST TRUE THING I HAVE HEARD ALL DAY.

Thank you for it, deCypher. :smile:


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #10260238 - 04/30/09 01:31 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

agreed^^^ i guess what was said before only pertains to the ones who want it all you know that nirvana shit...

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Offlinelaserpig
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Registered: 04/28/09
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #10260243 - 04/30/09 01:33 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

as far as i know, reaching enlightenment is like the exact opposite of losing the desire to alleviate suffering


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Weedmaster P knows the truth.

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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #10260248 - 04/30/09 01:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Well i'm not buddhist really and my reasoning is just a logical condundrum.

you can't really reason your way through paradoxes and dilemmas like this, they are like a runaway bull charging down on you you either dodge out of the way or grab a hold of the horns and get taken for a ride. That's why sometimes Zen is so silly and yet when you finally have the 'a-ha' moment and get it you realize it was actually not so silly.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10260282 - 04/30/09 01:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly. Awakening is a process that takes place below the neck.

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Middleman]
    #10260312 - 04/30/09 02:08 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The awakening below the neck facilitates a greater awakening above the neck. :grin:


--------------------
Word to your mom.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: deCypher]
    #10260335 - 04/30/09 02:15 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:47 AM)

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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10260358 - 04/30/09 02:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

lol so basically do nothing...

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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Middleman]
    #10260518 - 04/30/09 03:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

lolwut

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OfflineWandering_Yogi
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10260647 - 04/30/09 04:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks, Supernovasky. I think I get you.

I want to talk about selfishness.
Perhaps all human behavior is selfish from a certain point of view.
Human actions that appear selfless or compassionate such as self-sacrifice could be motivated by personal priorities. For example, maybe I would only sacrifice my life to save yours because I'm convinced that I couldn't live with myself if I let you die.

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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: Wandering_Yogi]
    #10260659 - 04/30/09 04:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

sacrificing yourself for another..... idk that just doesnt sit well with me...

ok yea everyone will think of you as heroic...but damn u just gave up your shot at everything for nothing...for a thought in your mind...

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10261714 - 04/30/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I think the idea is that when a person lets go of a desire, like compassion, they are then able to exemplify it. IOW, a person isn't selflessly compassionate until they have no desire to be compassionate. Once the desire is gone, they find it's their nature to be compassionate. Within the desire to have compassion, there is duality, and it will prevent a person from being it.




OK, but I don't understand the logic that infers that compassion comes naturally from within once all desire is gone.

Quote:

supernovasky said:
In Buddhism, there are three sorts of taṇhā that are considered the root of suffering are as follows:

The first is sensuality and the craving for objects pleasing to the senses.
The second is the craving for existence and reality.
The third is craving nonexistence and atemporality.




Thanks for the info, supernovasky.  #2 and #3 are particularly interesting; does this mean we should be apathetic about our own existence/nonexistence?

Quote:

supernovasky said:
make effort to prevent the unwholesome that has not yet arisen in oneself.
make effort to destroy the unwholesome that has arisen in oneself.
make effort to arouse the wholesome that has not yet arisen in oneself.
make effort to maintain the wholesome that has arisen in oneself.




This I can agree with more than Rahz's proposal... both wholesome and unwholesome things lie within ready to be awakened by preference and imposition of a scheme of moral qualification.  But how do Buddhists determine which is considered wholesome and which is considered unwholesome?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: deCypher]
    #10261721 - 04/30/09 10:40 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The Buddhist outlook seems paradoxical to me. In order to eliminate your desires, you have to desire to eliminate your desires.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #10261729 - 04/30/09 10:42 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
The Buddhist outlook seems paradoxical to me. In order to eliminate your desires, you have to desire to eliminate your desires.




You have to initially desire to eliminate all desire, but after you've hypothetically stopped desiring then you would no longer need that first statement of preference and the situation would not be contradictory.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: deCypher]
    #10261926 - 04/30/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My take is that, desire, as proposed in here = emotional attachment, holding on to the desired outcome, which as a result creates a difficulty of dealing with the fact that things go in a different direction, when they do.
I think that you can still want things, without having to have the attachment.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineBrainChemistry
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Re: Absence of desire... and why this may not be a good thing. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10262364 - 04/30/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
My take is that, desire, as proposed in here = emotional attachment, holding on to the desired outcome, which as a result creates a difficulty of dealing with the fact that things go in a different direction, when they do.
I think that you can still want things, without having to have the attachment.




DEFINITELY!

Thanks for posting this MT because I totally agree with you.

It is entirely possible to desire something, while at the same time not care if you get it. Or rather....not care when you get it. This is about accepting the fact that if wait for things to come to you, can eventually achieve all that you desire.

Also desire without attachment can be changed. If you realize you can't get what it is your desiring and you aren't attached to it...well then you just adjust your desire!

I really don't like the strict Buddhist interpretation of "desire leads to suffering". It only leads to suffering if you are so attached to your desires that you feel like you can't live without it. That is called obsession!! Not desire!

And also...whos to say that suffering, in the proper amounts, isn't a good thing? A little bit of suffering can teach you lessons about life that would otherwise take a life time to learn.


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Word to your mom.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: deCypher]
    #10262814 - 04/30/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

.


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.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:48 AM)

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: BrainChemistry]
    #10262844 - 04/30/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

.


--------------------
.

Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:48 AM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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