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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Registered: 05/25/08
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Zanthius]
    #10250955 - 04/28/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Um, rules against flaming are site-wide.  Why do you want the exception if not to flame?  The system doesn't work because it hasn't been applied.




Isn't it better if people avoid malevolent behavior because they want to, rather than because they are forced to?

I usually don't think that rules are the best way to teach people. Getting people to behave benevolently of their own free will is much better.




That may be a better way but we haven't seen much success with that anywhere.

Are you suggesting we lift the flaming rule site-wide?  I'm sure I could have a lot of fun with that at the expense of others.  A few are doing that, and have been doing that for years, now.


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InvisibleZanthius
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10250977 - 04/28/09 05:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
That may be a better way but we haven't seen much success with that anywhere.




I have seen far more success from parents that don't force their children too much. People must learn to take responsibility for themselves.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10250984 - 04/28/09 05:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

No, I want the trolls banned.  Surprisingly, a simple concept that most cannot understand.




You want yourself banned? I think that is a little harsh. Almost everyone here has trolled at some point including His Highness.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Zanthius]
    #10250988 - 04/28/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
That may be a better way but we haven't seen much success with that anywhere.




I have seen far more success from parents that don't force their children too much. People must learn to take responsibility for themselves.




:thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10250989 - 04/28/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
MM, you are being insincere again. :nono:

You already made clear that you don't want it publicly explained. Seems you are not a fan of the aphorism, "And the Truth shall set you free."




Where did I make it publicly clear?  Source?  Link?

I think the whole truth is a good thing.  One member's version to maliciously libel another isn't "the truth" nor shouldn't be what this forum is about.

There's plenty of room for that in SA or OTD though. :wink:  Or would those places be inconsistent with a certain agenda?

Tell me, do trolls like popcorn?


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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Registered: 03/16/09
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10250993 - 04/28/09 05:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i've been on the internet for a long, long, long time

so long I am more or less the ghost in the machine

some ethereal spirit from the outter void

this is no utopia

if you moderate people will get upset and leave

if you don't moderate people will get upset and leave

if you allow personalisms and trolling people will get upset and leave and i have seen entire communities die and all that was left were trolls and mutants

no matter waht you do someone is going to not like it

so the key is to figure out what most of your community wants

not just veterans and the popular crowd

because if you get too elitist then you might as well make the forum private and close access to it

since this forum is open and has always been open I assume you want some new people

maybe just fresh blood

but if the environment gets too hostile the newbs won't come, if you don't want newbs, make the forum private and moderate new membership

it's a game of balance

too much change is as bad as too little

you already got OTD and the Pub which aren't moderated

ad hominems (which are personalisms) are not valid form of argument

if this is for serious debate than personal attacks and trolling should be moderated imho

but it's your community.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10250997 - 04/28/09 05:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Are you suggesting we lift the flaming rule site-wide?  I'm sure I could have a lot of fun with that at the expense of others.




You already did. Shall I point it out yet again?


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10251006 - 04/28/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

No, I want the trolls banned.  Surprisingly, a simple concept that most cannot understand.




You want yourself banned? I think that is a little harsh. Almost everyone here has trolled at some point including His Highness.




Who is "His Highness?"  Obviously I don't want to be banned.  I conform to the rules of the forum, unlike others.  I'm not talking about someone that slips with a lettle flame now and then.  I'm talking about a malicious asshole that goes from message board to message board stirring up as much shit as possible.  The kind of guy that would needle a member who has been to a mental ward in the hopes of sending him back there.  That kind of asshole.

Do you know what I mean?


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10251026 - 04/28/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Are you suggesting we lift the flaming rule site-wide?  I'm sure I could have a lot of fun with that at the expense of others.




You already did. Shall I point it out yet again?




If your wishing to point out some imagined or otherwise act of mine, that is prohibited under the current forum rules unless it is in OTD or the Anon forum.  Or, as I have previously asked, would that spoil a certain agenda?

Will you answer the question this time?

And do trolls like popcorn?  If they do I'll swear off buying it.  You know what they say, "Don't feed the trolls."


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251036 - 04/28/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No I don't. You may talk plainly. I don't push the Mod Whistle button.

BTW, who was in the mental ward?


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Zanthius]
    #10251039 - 04/28/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
That may be a better way but we haven't seen much success with that anywhere.




I have seen far more success from parents that don't force their children too much. People must learn to take responsibility for themselves.




While I admire the idealism I know the consequences of a community with no rules.  Only the strong survive.  In other words, decent people leave.  We've had far too much of that at the Shroomery.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251048 - 04/28/09 05:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hiding behind the rules does not make your statement any less disingenuous to state you could have fun at other's expense when you clearly already did.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10251055 - 04/28/09 05:53 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:


BTW, who was in the mental ward?




Some guy who reniged on a bet with you.  It's hard to believe Perry Mason didn't study his victim.  Forum rules dictate I speak in generalities as much as possible.


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InvisibleSapa Inca
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251060 - 04/28/09 05:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

so are the Days of our Lives

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10251066 - 04/28/09 05:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Hiding behind the rules does not make your statement any less disingenuous to state you could have fun at other's expense when you clearly already did.




Are you claiming to know when I had or have fun?

Prove it: am I having fun now?

:8ball:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251119 - 04/28/09 06:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

In other words, decent people leave.  We've had far too much of that at the Shroomery.




True dat! Where is our beloved Veritas? What kind of a meanie would drive her away?


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251190 - 04/28/09 06:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
There is no such thing as free speech on a message board that needs money to exist.  Someone is paying the bills.  They get to decide what is said or cannot be said.  Whatever your motivation is the simple fact is that given my statement, your job would be easier.




This is true, but what's in question here is what the rules should be; the administrators or moderators can certainly decide to include free speech as a general maxim for board policy if they choose.

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said: No, I do not believe in democracy.  Remember our discussion over the philosopher king?  I want someone with wisdom to make the rules, not the current membership of the forum (rabble).




Again, agreed, but I don't see how the rabble is making the rules here.  This is an open thread to discuss possible rule changes; more viewpoints are always welcome but it ultimately comes down to the people in charge to make the final decision.

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said: I would need specifics before I would consent to any rule.




Alright, here's my rule proposal: Only philosophical topics will be permitted; no off-topic or irrelevant posting is allowed.  Comments that directly address other posters (i.e. personalisms under the current rule) would be allowed provided that they pertain to the discussion at hand.

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Quote:

daytripper23 said: Ignore the trolls.

You can do it with a push of a button, and it accomplishes the same thing, without censorship.




Nope, and that's bullshit under the current system.  You've seen how well that has worked with a member I ignored.  It started this whole mess.  He was able to incite another member against me and here is where we are.




What specifically do you mean by inciting other members?  If the comments a poster is making bother you, it's very easy to ignore them.  If you're worried about your reputation being damaged, it already can be affected by trolls through ratings or PMs to other members; allowing personalisms would change nothing but only allow the expression of one's feelings without having to cloak it behind a masquerade of only referring to the poster's ideas.  I primarily agree with daytripper23 in that the line between discussing ideas and the proponent of the ideas is a murky one... as is I think we have a working system that attempts to delineate the boundary between these as clearly as possible but I still think there is room to improve.

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Isn't it better if people avoid malevolent behavior because they want to, rather than because they are forced to?

I usually don't think that rules are the best way to teach people. Getting people to behave benevolently of their own free will is much better. Sometimes people learn best from their mistakes, but then they must also be allowed to make mistakes.




Yes, with the caveat that some people never learn.  In this case others must learn to use the Ignore button.  :grin:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10251198 - 04/28/09 06:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Quetzalcohuatl said:
ad hominems (which are personalisms) are not valid form of argument

if this is for serious debate than personal attacks and trolling should be moderated imho




See, I also sympathize with this, except this would require that we explicitly make P&S a debate forum (no friendly banter between forum regulars, for instance), and that we explicitly delineate what a personal attack and trolling constitutes.  Like daytripper23 has commented, there is no clear line between an attack on an idea and an attack on the person holding that idea IMO.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10251262 - 04/28/09 06:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

How would I know of another's personal life unless they specifcally shared it with me?

Study my vicitm? You should be a fiction writer.

Mr. Niburu was leading young people around with nonsense that I thought dangerous and I challenged him on one of his fantasies. There was no evil plan. I gave him half a dozen chances to make good by paying off 1% of the bet - that is how mean a SOB I am.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: Personalisms, flames and trolling. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10251269 - 04/28/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

In other words, decent people leave.  We've had far too much of that at the Shroomery.




True dat! Where is our beloved Veritas? What kind of a meanie would drive her away?




:rofl2:

Personally I don't think V could be forced to do anything other than by her own freewill.  She's a strong personality.  (a good thing in my view)  But if your intimation is, again, that I did something to drive her off you're wrong on two counts.  My evidence is the last public exchanges between us here in the forum (look them up, it isn't difficult) and pm's we sent each other before she left.  (something you wouldn't know about)

I find windmills difficult to joust.  Do you?


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