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 ikkes
very sad
Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 98
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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 rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem 
#10242115 - 04/27/09 11:15 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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it's a mix of rye dung and verm.
it's some leftover spore solution from a multispore syringe "cull".
both jars inoculated the same day...
this is day 14, both jars looked like the right one a few days ago.
I have a recurring problem,
with cubes and pans,
I used different incubators,
different temperatures,
low and high humidity in the incubator,
different jars with different gas exchange,
even used filter bags,
different substrates (shit an grass, rye, brf).....
shake gently at 20%,
shake after inoculation,
leave it alone
I have decent results... not huge flushes, but I don't mind... But I always have a few jars that seem to stop growing after 1 or 2 weeks???
Does anyone have an idea what can cause a jar to stall?
The right jar I still see some progress, the left one seemed to me it had stopped. So I gave it a good beating as a last resort. Now let's see if it recovers, but I didn't want to spawn it when not fully grown, last time I tried that .... greeeeeen
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..........3 Tage wach..........
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach
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DeadDog
MingeTeasingBastard
 
Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 498
Loc: La Chorrerra
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: ikkes]
#10242153 - 04/27/09 11:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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jars stall when they come up against bacteria, bacteria grow very well in sub jars that cant breath enough and are too warm.
ideal range is 76-83F anything above that will favour bacteria. could also be too moist for them.
also if your using multispore inoculant shaking after injecting wont do you any favours.
IMO ditch the incubator, also read the collection of RR's notes linked in my sig.
gl
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"You are the human equivalent of Bacterial Vaginosis, die now, thanks."
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ikkes
very sad
Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 98
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: DeadDog]
#10242252 - 04/27/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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that is a nice collection of notes.....
But sorry no ditching incubators....
The heating only swithes on at night
the temp during the day is 78° fahrenheit without heating.
Without incubator I can not grow outside the period may-september...
30-37% is to high? In my old incubator it reached >70%
While glancing at the rr notes... I will read them probably the rest of the night...
but when glancing at them, shaking the stalled one wasn't the best idea i had this evening....
But in the notes he states gently opening the jar when you have a verm barrier. I don't have it in this jar but I might try it, next time.
But the thing that bothers me the most, same syringe, same method of sterilising same incubator.
1 stalls 1 doesn't
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..........3 Tage wach..........
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: ikkes]
#10242278 - 04/27/09 11:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
same syringe, same method of sterilising same incubator.
1 stalls 1 doesn't
Ditch the incubator. Stale air leads to bacteria contamination. 78F daytime is just fine. If it cools off at night, that's just fine too.
When you shake a jar and it doesn't recover, it was contaminated with bacteria. I don't like the looks of your 'good' jar on the right either. The greasy, melted ice cream look is bacteria. Heat favors bacteria, cool temps favor mushroom mycelium.
RR
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"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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ikkes
very sad
Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 98
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10242556 - 04/27/09 12:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
same syringe, same method of sterilising same incubator.
1 stalls 1 doesn't
Ditch the incubator. Stale air leads to bacteria contamination. 78F daytime is just fine. If it cools off at night, that's just fine too.
When you shake a jar and it doesn't recover, it was contaminated with bacteria. I don't like the looks of your 'good' jar on the right either. The greasy, melted ice cream look is bacteria. Heat favors bacteria, cool temps favor mushroom mycelium.
RR
greasy melted ice cream look??? sorry, I'm trying to visualize. could you explain that one.
I tried making a close up..
emphasis on tried, my cam is great outdoors but crap indoor, when trying to take a pic through a glass jar.. it's uber-crap (or I am).
It will show yellow and green discoloration sometimes, which isn't really there
by the way 78° in the incubator, the room itself unfortunately is 68° (one of the warmest and most constant rooms in the house)... to reach 78° it will take another month or so.
If I would drill a series of let's say 0.5 inch holes in my incubator.
The material itself is insulating very well, so I'm convinced it will hold a great deal of it's heat but it will increase air flow dramatically. Could that be a nice compromise of reaching the right temperature, relative darkness and air flow??
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..........3 Tage wach..........
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach
Edited by ikkes (04/27/09 12:46 PM)
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Fender
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: ikkes]
#10242645 - 04/27/09 12:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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What he means is the slimy look of grain kernels in parts of your jar. It is hard for me to see the pic. But the best way to KNOW if the ‘wet spot’ bacteria or Bacillus exists is to shake, leave over night and smell. If it sells sour, it is contaminated.
And yes if a jar does not recover, it IS contaminated.
I agree with RR, ditch the incubator. I have grown out mycelium in 70-75 degrees for a long time and have no problem. It takes a little longer, but will work just fine.
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DeadDog
MingeTeasingBastard
Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 498
Loc: La Chorrerra
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: ikkes]
#10242660 - 04/27/09 01:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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the melted ice cream look is where the sub has stuck to the side of the glass in a wet spot i think.
exposing the jars to light isnt a problem, i really would take them out of the incubator and sit them on a high shelf if possible.
if you need to heat a space heater in the same room would work a hell of a lot better.
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"You are the human equivalent of Bacterial Vaginosis, die now, thanks."
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ikkes
very sad
Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 98
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: DeadDog]
#10242754 - 04/27/09 01:20 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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thanks for the advice...
I'll try a grow without incubator then.
light shouldn't be that big of a problem then?
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..........3 Tage wach..........
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach
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DeadDog
MingeTeasingBastard
Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 498
Loc: La Chorrerra
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: ikkes]
#10242903 - 04/27/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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nyet, light only acts as a pinning trigger once coupled with fresh air exchange.
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"You are the human equivalent of Bacterial Vaginosis, die now, thanks."
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 Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist
Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: DeadDog]
#10242935 - 04/27/09 01:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Light isn't a problem at all until you want to fruit.
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ikkes
very sad
Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 98
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: rye shaken and rye left alone, stalling problem [Re: Shroominit]
#10249168 - 04/28/09 12:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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always thought light was a big nono....
well, the non shaken jar, does show a few patches of that ice creamy stuff. Compared it to pics in the contam forum and it does look similar to baccillus. luckily it's not expanding.
I guess this will be the main reason why always some of my jars stall.
I just never would have guest bacterial infection, as none of them ever gave a foul smell. It's just a small patch stalling and in 95% of the cases it just fruits afterwards. (after casing or spawning)
by the way... the shaken jar is recovering within a day, so I'll leave my incubator open... it will give a little heat and no stale air.
no extra heat might be to cold for my Pans...
66min 68average and a peak in the afternoon to 77
--------------------
..........3 Tage wach..........
jetzt wirst du langsam schwach
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