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OfflineBrukan
a dead gnome

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 430
Last seen: 15 years, 10 days
Online Voting: More Democratic?
    #1024910 - 11/05/02 05:59 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

So what do you all think about online voting? A good idea? Not secure enough yet?

I think it's a great idea...people can vote from their homes. But I do see this as a new avenue for hackers to play in. I don't have a solid opinion just yet, but may form one if the discussion gets lively here...

- To add...the college I go to has for the first time this semester created an online voting system for students to elect student representative for our college government. The elections are under way right now (11/5/02 to 11/7/02)...and so far so good. I'll post something if problems should arise...or I'll post a link for the voting system itself if I find one.


Edited by Brukan (11/05/02 06:15 PM)


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OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Brukan]
    #1026136 - 11/06/02 12:34 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

I think its a bad idea. Even barring the potential for technical problems.

First of all, I think the logistics involved in getting to the voting both and actually being able to interpret a ballot (hahah) help to discourage people from voting who shouldn't be voting anyways.
What i mean by this is that if someone is not informed about the issues and candidates up for vote, then that person should abstain from voting on those issues or for those candidates.
Making voting avaliable online will make it more like a passtime activity which participating in politics certainly should NOT be.

I can see it now "Billy Bob, why doncha get on that Amerika Online and vote for that nice southern feller. I sho do like his harcut!"


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OfflineBrukan
a dead gnome

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 430
Last seen: 15 years, 10 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Viveka]
    #1027712 - 11/06/02 12:42 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

...................................................................
> ...What i mean by this is that if someone is not informed about the issues and candidates up for vote, then that person should abstain from voting on those issues or for those candidates. Making voting avaliable online will make it more like a passtime activity which participating in politics certainly should NOT be.

Wow, I think that is an excellent argument! I started this discussion with the mind set that a voter is an informed voter...knowing the candidates, what they stand for, and what they plan to do. So if people are not aware of these variables...should they even vote? Wow, I think this can lead to a whole other discussion in this forum.

But in an ideal scenario...all voters knowing the stances of the candidates...I find online voting the utopian method of voting.
...................................................................


...................................................................
> I can see it now "Billy Bob, why doncha get on that Amerika Online and vote for that nice southern feller. I sho do like his harcut!"

HAHA, tha is scary!!!
...................................................................


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Brukan]
    #1027722 - 11/06/02 12:48 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

one word...Hackers


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Brukan]
    #1031930 - 11/07/02 11:32 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Why just vote on candidates?

Why not vote on - War with iraq, legalisation of drugs etc etc?

Thats the aspect of online voting that excites me. Make the politicians true administrators of the peoples will rather than the seedy reptiles they currently are. :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1033071 - 11/07/02 05:08 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

In reply to:

Why not vote on - War with iraq, legalisation of drugs etc etc?



Because the US is a republic, not a democracy. There are aspects of voting on everything that I'd like. There are people though who are too lazy to vote, too lazy to learn, too lazy to think. If they could vote from home I shudder to think what may happen. Plus with the average attention span of most people (not just the US) being around 6 seconds (I made that number up so don't ask for a source. Feel free to substitute your own number if you'd like) how long do you think it would take before everyone voted to bring back the poloticians?

In reply to:

Make the politicians true administrators of the peoples will rather than the seedy reptiles they currently are.



If everyone could vote on everything, why would you need politicians?

Take that to its next step. In a true democracy you could vote to expel immigrants from the country. You could have a vote to make gay bashing legal. You could vote to make pot smoking a death penalty offense.

Now here's a quote fron an ABC poll, It's from the end of Seprtember so it's a bit out of date....
"In this latest poll, 61 percent of Americans support attacking Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein. That's eased a bit from 68 percent after Bush addressed the United Nations on Sept. 12, but it's still up from late August. "

If a vote had been taken then by the people we'd already be at war. Still think voting on everything is such a good idea?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleCaptain Jack
i [heart] you

Registered: 01/24/00
Posts: 4,113
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Viveka]
    #1033382 - 11/07/02 07:32 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

"First of all, I think the logistics involved in getting to the voting both and actually being able to interpret a ballot (hahah) help to discourage people from voting who shouldn't be voting anyways."

Everyone who is a citizen of legal age "should" be voting. That being said, I didn't vote.


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-
Captain Jack has been hailed as a brilliant scholar, discredited as a brilliant fraud, and mistaken for a much taller man on several occasions.


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Invisiblechinadoll
there
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,118
Loc: dark side of terrapin
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Captain Jack]
    #1033886 - 11/07/02 10:54 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I didn't vote either........I'm hiding out from jury duty


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Just a little nervous from the fall.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1035036 - 11/08/02 05:23 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Firstly Im from the UK. I was just speaking generally.

In reply to:

There are people though who are too lazy to vote, too lazy to learn, too lazy to think.




I don't vote. Not because im lazy but because I resent being forced to pick 1 from 3, when I disagree with 90% of what they stand for anyway. I know there are alot of lazy, stupid people out there but I think you are overstating the case. If we were all more involved in government perhaps people would be more likely to stay abreast of current affairs and use their brains for more than simply deciding what exactly to buy next.

In reply to:

If everyone could vote on everything, why would you need politicians?




Im not suggesting we vote on everything. Major issues that can affect entire nations should be voted on. And as time goes by the range of issues could be widened depending on the success of the system. So politicians would still be needed to formulate bills to be voted on and then to administer the decisons. Obviously it is not a perfect system but i think it would improve what we have.

In reply to:

If a vote had been taken then by the people we'd already be at war. Still think voting on everything is such a good idea?




As I said im from UK. If a vote was taken over here you'd be going to war on your own. The various polls I have seen show that between 60 - 70% of the UK population are opposed to war. I have also heard others on these forums report polls from the US which also come out against war. How reliable would ABC be?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1035061 - 11/08/02 05:56 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I know where you're from.

In reply to:

I don't vote.



Then your opinion carries little weight. If their are 3 and you like none, pick the one whos values most closely reflect your own. You may not get exactly what you want but you may help keep out someone far worse. It's a sad situation but far better than doing nothing.

In reply to:

Major issues that can affect entire nations should be voted on.



And so who decides what the major issues are? Do we vote on those as well? In effect by voting for politicians we are.

In reply to:

How reliable would ABC be?



Perhaps being from the UK you are unaware of just how much the big 3 networks (CBS, NBC, ABC) dislike the republicans and the conservative agenda in general. If they publish the results of a poll, and it goes along with the republicans and their agenda, it's only because the there was no way to keep it bottled up. The media in this country (for the most part) takes great joy in hammering the right and covering up for the left.

Also, as I was careful to point out that poll was a couple months old.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1035161 - 11/08/02 07:29 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

This system would be hacked so fast, mickey mouse would be the next president.


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_______________________________________
CSC


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~Joe Dirt

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1035476 - 11/08/02 10:31 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

The old I dont vote so i dont have an opinion arguement eh?

The reason i do not vote is because i am not willing to propogate a syatem in which i have no faith. My non-vote is a vote against the system. It is easy to dsmiss non voters as lazy but this is just convenient. Voter turnout in the US is around 50% i believe. 140 million lazy people? I dont thinks so.

I beleive politicians should still create bills etc. I just think we should all vote on them. One vote every 4 years is a joke.

As for your analysis of the american media please pass the salt. Any americans out there who can offer a different version of media bias in the states?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1035481 - 11/08/02 10:33 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

at least you wouldnt have the chad debate! dont see how online voting could be anymore corrupt than what you already have. Al Gore for preseidente!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1035571 - 11/08/02 11:13 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

****The reason i do not vote is because i am not willing to propogate a syatem in which i have no faith. My non-vote is a vote against the system.****

then you deserve what you get in my opinion.

****Voter turnout in the US is around 50% i believe. ****

try closer to 25% if that...and that's just 25% of the registered voters, not the population as a whole...it's quite sad really.

****I beleive politicians should still create bills etc. I just think we should all vote on them. One vote every 4 years is a joke.****

in a democracy yes..in a republic we have representation to do the voting for thr people (in theory)

****As for your analysis of the american media please pass the salt. Any americans out there who can offer a different version of media bias in the states? ****

pass the salt? is this more british humor..er humour? :grin: Actually ABC, NBC, and CBS are pretty biased.  Example: during the BUSH/GORE election if it was a 51% to 49% (with 5% ballots counted) they would all call it for GORE..When the opposite happen it was too close to call.  I remember watching the elections at my inlaw's house and yelled at the TV when they called the race in Florida so early...i was pissed because some people haven't even voted yet...

another would be that when the right wins as in a few days ago it wasn't that the republicrates got their message out it was because they spent sooooo much money and the angry white men syndrome of 1994...



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1035630 - 11/08/02 11:40 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

****The reason i do not vote is because i am not willing to propogate a syatem in which i have no faith. My non-vote is a vote against the system.****

then you deserve what you get in my opinion.


This is my point inny, whoever I vote for im gonna get the same. In the UK the parties are so close in most of their policies that the difference is only in presentation and the minor details. So why bother voting with the rest of the sheep? I think when voter turnout is so low there needs to be a serious rethink of the system.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1035644 - 11/08/02 11:43 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

The media in this country (for the most part) takes great joy in hammering the right and covering up for the left

Wierd. These multi-billion dollar media corporations are all run by hardline anarchists.

Sound likely?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1035652 - 11/08/02 11:47 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I think when voter turnout is so low there needs to be a serious rethink of the system.

Exactly. I don't think it's because of "voter apathy" either. People are more interested in politics than they have ever been, they just don't see that it matters which big business serving oligarchy is currently in power.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1035659 - 11/08/02 11:48 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

****I think when voter turnout is so low there needs to be a serious rethink of the system. ****

yeah the people...unfortunatly. there ARE a lot of lazy people here in the US (hate to admit it)....those that don't vote in the US are the sheep if ya ask me


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,234
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1036803 - 11/08/02 05:18 PM (15 years, 15 days ago)

Can you not read? Or is comprehension not a strong point?

I didn't say you didn't have an opinion. I said it doesn't carry much weight. Is there a part of that difference you don't get?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: Online Voting: More Democratic? [Re: Brukan]
    #1039712 - 11/10/02 12:06 AM (15 years, 13 days ago)

After the election fiasco of 2000 I did some serious thinking about how to make the voting system more secure. I came up with black and white marbles. This is an old voting system that used to be used in the US. It is very hard to commit voter fraud that way.

Washington has mail-in voting and I don't like that either even though it has some advantages.

Electronic voting is bad too.

Voting on the Internet? Never.


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