Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineNineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
What's The Legality With K9s? ? ?
    #10245373 - 04/27/09 08:12 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I tried searching online, but didn't find jack. I am still searching.

Do you guys know what the legality is with regard to traffic stops and K9s?

Let's say you get pulled over and a cop asks for the typical BS ... license, registration, and proof of insurance. He comes back, issues you a ticket, and THEN says ... "I'm just gonna walk my dog around your car real quick".

I personally would decline and say that I prefer to be on my way, but do cops have the RIGHT to walk that bitch around your car just because they feel like it? I would imagine NOT, but it never hurts to ask. I've been in this situation before and told the cop NO NO NO. He did let me go, but followed me for quite some time. He was very persistent and I was just as persistent in saying no. I finally had to say, “unless you have probable cause or a warrant, I’ll be on my way”.

Just food for though. Did you know that K9s are trained to alert upon command? They truly are. If the cop walks the dog around your car and finds NOTHING, but really wants inside your car ... he will command the dog to allert and that IS probable cause to enter and perform a much more thorough search. This is the reason why I'm asking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefastfred
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10247289 - 04/28/09 01:50 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Cops don't work like that.  They don't give you the ticket until they've searched or walked the dog around.  That's their entire premise for making you wait.

If they give you the ticket first and then walk the dog around that isn't legal since they have no premise for detaining you.

Simply detaining people longer than it takes to write a ticket is illegal.  Cases have been thrown out on that basis. 

One lady waited over an hour for the dogs to get there on a minor traffic ticket.  The dogs then indicated and they found several kilos of heroin in her trunk.  It was all thrown out.  She didn't get her heroin back BTW though.

> Did you know that K9s are trained to alert upon command?

LOL! Of course they are!  Most dogs arent trained for shit.  There only purpose is an excuse to violate your rights.  There are well trained dogs that are trained to indicate on command, there are untrained dogs that know to indicate on command, and there are just regular dogs they parade around just to say they indicated.  The whole thing is a sham.


-FF

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: fastfred]
    #10248219 - 04/28/09 08:56 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

So ticket first dog second is not proper. That has happened to me before and I just said no. They didn't like it, but I was not detained (I would have been so screwed).

We have a LOT of K9 units where I'm from. It's not a big town and whenever ANYONE is pulled over the K9 unit conveniently arrives as backup. The dogs being present is a common sight where I'm from.

I'm just wondering what the legality is with regard to dogs being walked around the car. A cop has the right to walk around the car so I'm wondering if you can say no to a dog being walked around the car if the dog happens to be inside the cop's car or with the backup?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10248314 - 04/28/09 09:30 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

I'm just wondering what the legality is with regard to dogs being walked around the car. A cop has the right to walk around the car so I'm wondering if you can say no to a dog being walked around the car if the dog happens to be inside the cop's car or with the backup?




In the US, as long as the car is on public property, then there is no reason why a cop cannot walk a dog around the car.  If you are being detained, then things change a bit, as they cannot keep you for an unreasonable amount of time waiting for a dog to show up.  If the car is on private property, then things get ugly, and it could go either way, but the cop would probably win unless the curtilage of the home were well defined to include the location of the car as well (gates, no trespassing signs, mailbox and meters at the property line, etc).


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Seuss]
    #10248552 - 04/28/09 10:33 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

That SUCKS!

I figured as much. As mentioned before ... the only purpose for the dog is to skip right over our rights and leap right into searching our cars if the pig wants to.

I'll always protest and video tap regardless of the situation, but if I have no right to protest then those fuckers are brilliant. They found a loophole around our right to search and seize without a warrant or probable cause.

Cop: "I'm pulling over a pimped out car and they're young punks, could use K9 support".

2 minutes later the dog is commanded to alter and the pigs are rummaging through your shit. No legitimate probable cause required (the dog falsely alerting is their probable cause).

God help America.

Edited by NineInchNails (04/28/09 10:38 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Bojangles
Breathe In
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,937
Loc: The Dirty
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10254884 - 04/29/09 10:21 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

the only purpose for the dog is to skip right over our rights and leap right into searching our cars if the pig wants to.




Pretty much.  But most of the time, if there's nothing overly suspicious (smells, person is obviously high/intoxicated, grateful dead bumper sticker) than the officer just issues a ticket.

My buddy trained a drug dog, and he could make that bitch bark and go crazy by just making a quick ticking sound with his mouth that was barely noticeable.

This is why you shouldn't drive with more than you can eat :smirk:


--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."

Francois-Marie Arouet

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevandago
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,942
Loc: .
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: fastfred]
    #10255154 - 04/29/09 11:04 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Cops don't work like that.  They don't give you the ticket until they've searched or walked the dog around.  That's their entire premise for making you wait.

If they give you the ticket first and then walk the dog around that isn't legal since they have no premise for detaining you.

Simply detaining people longer than it takes to write a ticket is illegal.  Cases have been thrown out on that basis.






Is this true?


I was stopped about 4 years ago........given a ticket while in the cops car.  Then after he wrote the ticket I was getting out of his car to walk back.....and he asked me to wait a minute because he felt like searching me based on the smell of marijuana.....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10255254 - 04/29/09 11:21 AM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

NineInchNails said:
They found a loophole around our right to search and seize without a warrant or probable cause.



I still can't believe that they're allowed to use dogs to sniff out drugs. We might as well take the 4th amendment right out of the US Constitution.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Poid]
    #10256176 - 04/29/09 02:03 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

FUCKIN POLICE.

You guys should check out 'Cop Watch'. It's a group of guys that are always on standby with a video camera. They show up on the scene whenever cops are called or during pullovers. They simply stand there video taping to document what goes down. The cops hate it!

Every town needs a Cop Watch. They actually reduced arrests (due to getting people to wave their rights) over 90% in the areas where Cop Watch is present! ! !

I tell ya ... If I was not as bogged down in the daily BS I'd be part of it for sure. Nothing chaps my ass more than seeing young kids being dicked over because they don't know their rights.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10256307 - 04/29/09 02:28 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

If I could, I would join Cop Watch, too.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinenumonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!

Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Seuss]
    #10256893 - 04/29/09 04:13 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

I'm just wondering what the legality is with regard to dogs being walked around the car. A cop has the right to walk around the car so I'm wondering if you can say no to a dog being walked around the car if the dog happens to be inside the cop's car or with the backup?




In the US, as long as the car is on public property, then there is no reason why a cop cannot walk a dog around the car.  If you are being detained, then things change a bit, as they cannot keep you for an unreasonable amount of time waiting for a dog to show up.  If the car is on private property, then things get ugly, and it could go either way, but the cop would probably win unless the curtilage of the home were well defined to include the location of the car as well (gates, no trespassing signs, mailbox and meters at the property line, etc).




It would be interesting to know how these signal would stand up in court for someone without proper signals as stated above. Is it wise to put a 'private property: no trespassing' sign on the residences of acquaintances so as they do not cause you any possible legal recourse?

Anyone have any cases in which this shows up in a qualified case dropped at a state or federal level? Based on property lines, what Seuss has mentioned above?

Just curious. I've seen nothing on these in my own research.


~Monk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: numonkei]
    #10257087 - 04/29/09 04:53 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

I don't have access to case search tools any longer, but in general, within the US, the courts have decided that 4th amendment rights only extend to property that is not visible (or accessible) to the public.  In other words, only the curtilage of your home is protected from an unreasonable search.  Traditionally, the courts find that the curtilage is anything enclosed by the walls of your home in which you live, but not your property or anything on your property.  One can extend the curtilage of your home to your property line, but it is difficult.  You must put up fences that block public view, put up no trespassing signs, install a gate, remove any need for a person to access anything beyond your property line (such as moving meters and mailboxes outside of the fence), etc.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_fields_doctrine for details...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Seuss]
    #10257350 - 04/29/09 05:45 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

So basically, the 4th amendment practically doesn't exist anymore? :crankey:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Poid]
    #10257634 - 04/29/09 06:44 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

> So basically, the 4th amendment practically doesn't exist anymore? :crankey:

It is certainly not as strong as it once was.  However, the courts are claiming that if something is accessible to the public, the it has no protection from unreasonable searches.

Wiki says it better than I can, "a search of an object or area where a person has no reasonable expectation of privacy is, in a legal sense, not a search at all. That search, therefore, does not trigger the protections of the Fourth Amendment."

Therefore, parking your car in your driveway, on private property, even with a no trespassing sign, will not protect the car from a walk around with a drug dog as the car has no reasonable expectation of privacy when clearly visible (and accessible) from a public road, thus the search is not a search.  Viva lawyers.  If you had a gate, fence, and had taken other precautions to extend the curtilage of your home to include your driveway, then the car would be protected.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Seuss]
    #10257738 - 04/29/09 07:01 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Seems like a completely blatant violation of the 4th amendment, I can't believe this shit goes on...


"Viva lawyers.  If you had a gate, fence, and had taken other precautions to extend the curtilage of your home to include your driveway, then the car would be protected."

It sucks that we have to go the extra mile to protect our rights these days, when instead, that should be the duty of police officers. :mad2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMastamike1118
Male

Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Poid]
    #10258678 - 04/29/09 09:02 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

man i remember being in highschool and they would bring the dogs every blue moon and set up checkpoints as you walked in and then had em sniff all the lockers...lolthat was always bullshit scary tho..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Mastamike1118]
    #10258732 - 04/29/09 09:11 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

Are you fucking serious? I once carried this very half oz. of purple trainwreck in my chem class in high school, and it reeked up the entire classroom! :lol:




This Cannabis Club shit was dank! :vaped:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMastamike1118
Male

Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Poid]
    #10258941 - 04/29/09 09:45 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)

that looks so beautiful

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNineInchNails
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,190
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: Poid]
    #10268935 - 05/01/09 01:27 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Seems like a completely blatant violation of the 4th amendment, I can't believe this shit goes on...


"Viva lawyers.  If you had a gate, fence, and had taken other precautions to extend the curtilage of your home to include your driveway, then the car would be protected."

It sucks that we have to go the extra mile to protect our rights these days, when instead, that should be the duty of police officers. :mad2:




Remember how common 'white picket fences' and gates used to be?

That's because it was a symbol of DO NOT PASS THIS LINE. Picket fences don't keep anyone in or out ... but they are a do not pass line that is indisputable.

Now these days white picket fences are considered as gay and people like to make fun of them so they are now uncommon. That's why cops can simply walk right up to your house, peep into your windows and BUST YOUR ASS for what they see.

It's not illegal for cops to LOOK at what is in plain view. Signs don't and can't keep anyone out. I knew that cops can walk right up to your car and peek around ... but I was wondering what rights cops have to walk a fucking dog around your car. Evidently they have EVERY right to do it as long as they do it WHILE they already have a valid reason to initially pull you over which can be nearly anything. I’ve had a cop pull me over just to say ‘be careful … it’s snowing hard’. Piece of shit.

I'll pitch a bitch if that ever happens to me regardless what the cops or the law says about it. I don't care I'll make a fucking scene. As far as I'm concerned I didn't give them permission to search and that’s including the use of a damn dog. You just can’t let them do it and not say anything about it. It’s just plain wrong.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: What's The Legality With K9s? ? ? [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10271090 - 05/01/09 10:37 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

NineInchNails said:
Now these days white picket fences are considered as gay and people like to make fun of them so they are now uncommon. That's why cops can simply walk right up to your house, peep into your windows and BUST YOUR ASS for what they see.



:lol:, an old next-door neighbor I used to have literally had a white picket fence!


But in all seriousness, I agree with you 100%. They should only be allowed to use K-9's to sniff out bombs, which can be a real-time life threatening emergency, instead of drugs, which pretty much just make for some good times! :awesome:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Who has refused consent to search, and it worked?
( 1 2 all )
scatmanrav 3,337 32 08/02/05 01:13 PM
by votelp2008
* Was this police search legal?
( 1 2 all )
NPerez 4,046 21 08/01/05 02:31 PM
by TysonTomko
* Probable cause to search the trunk Fospher 1,738 19 08/08/05 12:40 AM
by selfinfliction
* Dogs and searches steelflower 970 12 04/25/05 02:04 PM
by deathbychimney
* the cop's arm span search
( 1 2 all )
four20snakeman 4,647 25 01/29/04 03:11 PM
by Magus
* car searches John 1,608 13 04/02/04 01:36 PM
by John
* This cop had absolutely NO fucking reason to search the car!!!!!!
( 1 2 all )
Hawkeye2 3,016 27 10/25/05 12:12 AM
by SuperD
* car search
( 1 2 all )
frogger25 3,151 29 01/11/05 04:23 AM
by dblaney

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, Alan Rockefeller
2,070 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 17 queries.