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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10272267 - 05/02/09 08:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
People don't want it to stop because it is agonizing, they want it to stop because the sensation mimics so closely the sensation(s) of drowning, and the body's inbuilt reflexes to the situation are so thoroughly hardwired that they override the intellect.




Who do you think you are kidding? This is the worst justification for waterboarding I've ever heard, not even bush admin people trying to justify torture would be so stupid as to actually say something like this and expect the public to swallow it.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10272889 - 05/02/09 11:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
People don't want it to stop because it is agonizing, they want it to stop because the sensation mimics so closely the sensation(s) of drowning, and the body's inbuilt reflexes to the situation are so thoroughly hardwired that they override the intellect.




AMAZING!  :lol:


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10274465 - 05/02/09 05:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Not every experience you find unpleasant and wish would stop is painful or anguishing. Is waterboarding unpleasant? Damn straight! Is it scary? You betcha! Is it torture? Nope.



Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Redstorm]
    #10274474 - 05/02/09 05:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Also, by statements made by US officials, I am under the impression that b.) is true.




Okay, let's run with that. From whom did the US got the information necessary to thwart the attacks?





Phred


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Redstorm]
    #10274977 - 05/02/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Waterboarding is not anguishing, huh? Are you that poorly aware of the definition of "anguish"?

Also, I've seen you say that waterboarding stopped the attack on the Library Towers. Do you have any proof of this?




this nonsense about a planned attack on library tower.. and how our heroic torturers stopped it w/ their magic waterboards.. has already been roundly debunked ..



--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (05/02/09 08:29 PM)

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10275017 - 05/02/09 07:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Not every experience you find unpleasant and wish would stop is painful or anguishing. Is waterboarding unpleasant? Damn straight! Is it scary? You betcha! Is it torture? Nope.




I doubt everyone is as sadomasochistic as you, perhaps you like to call up your dominatrix and have a go at the waterboarding but I'm going to guess that this fetish is only something that belongs to a slim segment of the population.

Frankly reading you say this makes me worry that you have any real material authority outside of this board, because anyone who could have such a warped view of something so totally plane and seemingly self-explanatory sure could abuse power in the blink of an eye.

It is a good thing because I expect dictators and other similar power abusers have similar views and it is good that we have the Geneva Conventions to lay it out so that it's clear that torture is the forcing of anguish, pain or suffering (3 words that are synonyms, share a common material reality and mean the same thing) on to a person for un-due reasons and that these protections extend to anyone captive in the hands of their enemies if said enemies are a Geneva Convention signatory.

However just for shits and giggles lets say someone in your family was mistaken for a terrorist and waterboarded then returned after years to the outside world when it was found out to be a mistaken arrest. Would you say: "oh mom grab a pair that wasn't torture you were experiencing that was just enhanced interrogation techniques!"


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (05/02/09 07:57 PM)

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10276587 - 05/03/09 02:33 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I doubt everyone is as sadomasochistic as you...




Sadomasochistic?

You really have no ammunition at all, do you? I have never said waterboarding is pleasant or that I would rush to have it done to myself. All I have done is pointed out correctly that it isn't torture.

Quote:

It is a good thing because I expect dictators and other similar power abusers have similar views and it is good that we have the Geneva Conventions to lay it out so that it's clear that torture is the forcing of anguish, pain or suffering...




Exactly. And waterboarding is none of those things. This is why it was chosen by the US government over other methods.





Phred


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10276890 - 05/03/09 05:42 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

How would you define waterboarding, then, since you don't consider it torture?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Poid]
    #10277185 - 05/03/09 08:09 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
How would you define waterboarding, then, since you don't consider it torture?



A fraternity initiation rite.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10277193 - 05/03/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

They might as well force them to play jizz cookie, then!  :blowjob:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10277350 - 05/03/09 09:16 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
How would you define waterboarding, then, since you don't consider it torture?



A fraternity initiation rite.




We should allow fraternities to strappado pledges as well, then.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: TGRR]
    #10277468 - 05/03/09 09:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I would rather be tortured then have to go through some of the worst fraternity initiation rites...:bondage:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Poid]
    #10277556 - 05/03/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I would rather be tortured then have to go through some of the worst fraternity initiation rites...:bondage:




Hey...without fraternity rites, how would we maintain our current level of perverts?


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: TGRR]
    #10277659 - 05/03/09 10:42 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think the internet is doing a fine job in maintaining our current level of perverts. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10280137 - 05/03/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What can I say phred you made it sound like you were.

Nice dodge on the rest of my post and jump to the subsequent denial of the reality that waterboarding is torture.

Out of curiosity since you are so sure there is a legal precedence to define the line between waterboarding and electrocuting someone's testicles, presumably in the Geneva Convention, quote it. Because it appears to me that you are pulling this deffinition out of your ass. The Geneva Convention seems as far as I read to have vague enough language to prevent any type of torture, be it perminant damage or temporary pain, imminent death or percieved imminent death. If someone is purposely simulating the experiance of drowning to death and then removing you from that state just before you are near blacking out. That's torture. If a cop did this to a citizen, they would be tried for torturing them, in fact I think that happened somewhere in the US. Why is the definition somehow different if it's the CIA?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10281152 - 05/03/09 10:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Who cares if water boarding is torture? To me they didn't go far enough, not even close.  As far as I am concerned they shouldve extended excruciating pain for as long as possible. Make it so these fucks would be begging us to kill them or let them die. And then tortured them some more, Native American style.  Vin Rhames in pulp fiction said something like I'm gonna give this guy to some niggers that know how to use pliers and blowtorches. Hell yeah.

As for any civilization that condones torture not worth saving, then what the hell are we doing in the middle east? Every country there adheres to what we would consider torture. Should we have killed them all, or would that be torture. 

Who says torture is only necessary when we are attempting to extract information?  Why not do it out of spite or for retribution?  OK then lets go quid pro quo on their asses, I would be the first one to lock them in a room 90 stories up, throw in a couple dozen gallons of jet fuel, set it ablaze, and see what happens. Don't worry I'd tell them freedom and 40 virgins lie outside the window.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Therian]
    #10281916 - 05/04/09 01:56 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Who cares if water boarding is torture? To me they didn't go far enough, not even close.  As far as I am concerned they shouldve extended excruciating pain for as long as possible. Make it so these fucks would be begging us to kill them or let them die. And then tortured them some more, Native American style.  Vin Rhames in pulp fiction said something like I'm gonna give this guy to some niggers that know how to use pliers and blowtorches. Hell yeah.





Lovely.  Just a naked preference devoid of reason nor meaning.  Who are "those fucks"?  Everyone the government wants?



I take it your not much for "following the law" and "respecting treaties" and " an executive bound by the law".

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Therian]
    #10282350 - 05/04/09 06:05 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Who cares if water boarding is torture? To me they didn't go far enough, not even close.  As far as I am concerned they shouldve extended excruciating pain for as long as possible. Make it so these fucks would be begging us to kill them or let them die. And then tortured them some more, Native American style.  Vin Rhames in pulp fiction said something like I'm gonna give this guy to some niggers that know how to use pliers and blowtorches. Hell yeah.

As for any civilization that condones torture not worth saving, then what the hell are we doing in the middle east? Every country there adheres to what we would consider torture. Should we have killed them all, or would that be torture. 

Who says torture is only necessary when we are attempting to extract information?  Why not do it out of spite or for retribution?  OK then lets go quid pro quo on their asses, I would be the first one to lock them in a room 90 stories up, throw in a couple dozen gallons of jet fuel, set it ablaze, and see what happens. Don't worry I'd tell them freedom and 40 virgins lie outside the window.




:shake:

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10283871 - 05/04/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Nice dodge on the rest of my post...




What "rest of my post" are you talking about. There was almost no substance to your post, just attacks on me.

Quote:

Out of curiosity since you are so sure there is a legal precedence to define the line between waterboarding and electrocuting someone's testicles, presumably in the Geneva Convention, quote it.




The word "torture" existed long before there was such a thing as the Geneva Convention. I am personally quite content to go with the definition you provided earlier - actions designed to deliberately cause extreme pain and/or anguish. The thing is, waterboarding is painless and causes no anguish.

Your insistence on inflating every unpleasant experience to the level of "torture" is absurd, but it's the standard technique of Lefties and has been forever:

Harsh interrogation is torture.
The Bush regime were Nazis.
The Israelis are committing genocide.

Words have meaning. That's why there are so many of them. There's no point in my engaging further someone who refuses to differentiate between words. The bottom line here is that you insist on believing waterboarding rises to the level of torture. I can't help what you believe. You believe a lot of other weird things, too. There's no point us continuing to persuade each other, as you will continue to believe what you believe no matter what I write.



Phred


--------------------

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Americans side with Cheney and embrace torture... [Re: Phred]
    #10284476 - 05/04/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Again, I will refer you to the definition of anguish. To argue that waterboarding does not lead to distress or anxiety is absurd.

I suggest you choose a new approach.

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