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Anonymous #1

Application of principles learned in this Forum
    #10242301 - 04/27/09 11:54 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I don't know how many of you read SA but I am the guy that was shooting the neighborhood cats with a bb gun.

Apparently that is a crime.

This morning after returning from dropping my child off at school I received a knock on my door. It was the sherrif's department. I was quite shocked. I answered the door and immediatley they asked if they could come in. I said that that was not a possibility and they proceeded to ask  why and told me it made me look guilty of a crime. I told them that I know I have the right to refuse to let anyone in my house and that I learned to just say no to peer pressure even if it was from police officers when I had D.A.R.E. class in grade school.

They just a shocked look on their faces. They then said ok well we would like to ask you some questions. I said oh. Well I don't think that will be possible either. They asked me why. I said because even though they are supposed to protect and serve the public the only way to measure that is by making arrests and that I believe that is what the majority of their training is devoted to. Furthermore I told them that I believe the only reason they had to talk to me unless I called them was to try to get me to incriminate myself in a matter whether I was involved or not. So I keep an attorney on retainer for any time a police officer has questions they would like to ask me. I then gave them a card with my attorneys information. I asked them if their was anything else and they proceeded to tell me about reports from my neighbors I interupted them and said I already gave you a card for my attorney please feel free to use that card. I then told them goodbye and went inside.

I went to my kitchen and started doing dishes were I could see them outside through my window. They just had this blank look on their faces and I had to restrain myself from laughing. After I got done with my dishes they were still standing on my porch looking around. I opened my window and told them they were violating my rights by trespassing on my property and asked them if they would kindly leave.

They left but are sitting down the block from my house. I imagine I just made things worse by being a dick but at least I exercised my rights and they know it. Regardless of what happens I can be happy about that.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10242349 - 04/27/09 12:05 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Excellent handling of the situation, your lawyer would be proud.

I bet 98% of people would invite them inside and 95% would be convicted in a situation like that.  Way to cut them off at the beginning, once you start answering ANY questions it goes downhill real fast.

I'd lay low and maybe let a friend borrow the bb gun for awhile.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10242394 - 04/27/09 12:13 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

I have been trying to figure out how to get it out of my house. I think they will probably suspect something and pull me over when I leave.

I just called my attorney to tell him that some police had tried to question me about something and I gave them his card. He said I did a good job and that he would let me know if they call.

I still can't believe the look on their faces. I guess they are not trained for that situation. I wish I had a pic of it.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10242427 - 04/27/09 12:18 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Leave the house a few times without it and come back like you are running lots of errands, take note if they pull you over.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10243005 - 04/27/09 02:03 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

> I have been trying to figure out how to get it out of my house.

I wouldn't bother, but I am not a lawyer, so take my advice with a grain of salt.  I doubt a judge is going to sign a search warrant for a home to find an air rifle.  If the cops could have gotten a search warrant, they already would have.  However, if you leave with it, they can pull you over for about anything (no turn signal, speeding, incomplete stop, unsafe turn, weaving in traffic, etc) and search your car because you were acting odd and they thought they smelled drugs (or whatever other lame excuse they come up with).  At that point, you have handed them what they are looking for.  Depending upon what you say, they can further nail you with obstruction of justice, tampering with evidence, concealed weapon, etc.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Seuss]
    #10244467 - 04/27/09 05:58 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

You might as well ditch the pellet gun.  The easiest way is probably to just box it up and mail it off.

They can't search first-class mail once it has postage on it without a warrant.  You can also have UPS or USPS come to your door for the package.  That way you don't have to travel anywhere with it.  Otherwise just walk it down to the post office.

BTW you might want to check on the legality of mailing BB guns first also.  I always used to order them from catalogs, but that may have changed.


-FF

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OfflineNineInchNails
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: fastfred]
    #10245154 - 04/27/09 07:44 PM (15 years, 25 days ago)

There's nothing illegal about being in possession of a pellet gun. It's the neighbor's word against yours.

One thing I have learned when it comes to situations like this ... most of the time the reports (like from your neighbors) are merely their assumptions. For instance they assume that it was you who shot the cats ... or someone told them that they 'think' it was you who shot the cat/cats. Personally … I’d just hang on to the gun. I wouldn’t risk driving it anywhere. If anyone asks you why you have a pellet gun … just say “who the hell doesn’t have at LEAST a pellet gun in their home”? The gun itself is not evidence. Unless of course they extracted a pellet from a dead or injured cat and performed elaborate forensics on the SOB.

All those dumb bastards have to do is say "I SAW him shoot the damn cat with my own two eyes". Then they wouldn't have to ask you a damn thing ... just arrest you or whatever is appropriate by law. Technically they would be bearing false witness, but that's a moral dilemma. Obviously the law and court is NOT the place for truth, honesty, or justice. It's who has the best story and the best theatrical representative/attorney.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: NineInchNails]
    #10247249 - 04/28/09 01:38 AM (15 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

The gun itself is not evidence. Unless of course they extracted a pellet from a dead or injured cat and performed elaborate forensics on the SOB.




And all it takes is one cat-loving nutjob to pay $1000 bucks to get it done and you're fucked.

Why not just spend the $10 and send the gun off to some cousin or nephew that would enjoy it?


-FF

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: fastfred]
    #10247774 - 04/28/09 06:07 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

> And all it takes is one cat-loving nutjob to pay $1000 bucks to get it done and you're fucked.

Were pellets or BBs used, and is the barrel rifled or not?  Most BB guns are smooth bore and don't leave rifle marks on the projectile.

> If anyone asks you why you have a pellet gun … just say ...

... nothing.  Anything you say can be used against you while nothing you say can help you, thus you say nothing.  You don't lie, you don't make excuses, you don't admit to owning a BB gun.  You keep your mouth shut and hand out your lawyers card.  If they pester you, then you politely tell them that your lawyer told you not to speak with anybody without him being present and that you have nothing more to say.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: fastfred]
    #10249401 - 04/28/09 01:14 PM (15 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

They can't search first-class mail once it has postage on it without a warrant.




I thought it had to actually be in the mail stream to have that type of protection.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Seuss]
    #10251613 - 04/28/09 07:26 PM (15 years, 24 days ago)

It was an airsoft bb gun. No cats were seriously injured if injured at all. I was just trying to get them to stuff boinkin my cat.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Seuss]
    #10253437 - 04/29/09 12:01 AM (15 years, 24 days ago)

You sound like a jackass if your shooting cats, but whatever.


Good job.  I agree with allan.  Maybe 5% would have refused to let the police in and the same amount would have refused to talk.  Most would have been convicted as the police would have lied, said they have a lot of evidence they didn't have, say they had a description and an eyewitness identification, et cet  People would get nervous, make excuses, like the poster advised you to above, thereby confirming that they were on the right track.  Then they'd have your ass and force a confession out of you, which they wouldn't need anyways by that point.


You shouldn't have been a dick, but its good you handled it well.


Did you really learn that stuff about how to respond from reading this forum?


Quote:

Seuss said:

> If anyone asks you why you have a pellet gun � just say ...

... nothing.  Anything you say can be used against you while nothing you say can help you, thus you say nothing.  You don't lie, you don't make excuses, you don't admit to owning a BB gun.  You keep your mouth shut and hand out your lawyers card.  If they pester you, then you politely tell them that your lawyer told you not to speak with anybody without him being present and that you have nothing more to say.





Exactly.  I don't know how "don't talk" turns into "make excuses" in people's mind.  Almost as bad as confessing.  You admit it in your denial.  The cops don't care what your reasons are, and they don't care if your a good guy, its not even their decision so why are you trying to impress them?  My cop aquaintance's prosecutor reviews all police reports involving any conduct other than petty traffic.  It ain't the cops decision.


---


I think you should hide the pellet gun in your house.  If you decide to leave with it then put it in a locked vessel if possible, or at least several layers of opaque containers and make it as cumbersome to access as possible.  PUT IT IN THE TRUNK.  Other than that there's not much you can do.


If they come back refuse all comment or consent.


Good job.

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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: fastfred]
    #10256831 - 04/29/09 04:03 PM (15 years, 23 days ago)


Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

The gun itself is not evidence. Unless of course they extracted a pellet from a dead or injured cat and performed elaborate forensics on the SOB.




And all it takes is one cat-loving nutjob to pay $1000 bucks to get it done and you're fucked.

Why not just spend the $10 and send the gun off to some cousin or nephew that would enjoy it?


-FF





What if that cat was your mother? Your cousin? Your cat?

OP: You did a good job with the police.

But shooting cats with a bb gun? Were you high, or trying to teach your children to shoot accurately?

Again, fantastic working of the situation. However, the problem was putting yourself in such a stupid situation.

You need to kill a cat, any strong poison in a hypodermic needle while it sleeps on the porch, (assuming you had access to the feline in question, you likely could have hit it with proper subterfuge, correct)?

My point, this is a great reaction to a ridiculous set of circumstance. Try not to shoot cats with air pellets, for the sake of your children who may try to do the same to their parents. That is not meant as a joke, my younger cousin was shot by his young son after showing him how to use a cross-bow on a tree.



~Monk

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OfflineNineInchNails
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: numonkei]
    #10269050 - 05/01/09 01:49 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Don't be such a pussy. So what ... he shot a cat. Ever had a nuisance cat tear up your trash repeatedly? Oh ... I'm sure you'll proceed to tell us how to properly store our trash :rolleyes:.

Ever had a neighbor who is infested with cats and will not do anything about it? I suppose you'll suggest taking the cats to the Humane Society :rolleyes: Did you know that they don't like to accept your critters if you don't donate? They act like you owe them something. My wife has taken in over 6 local nuisance strays and they always give her shit for it. She finally told them "fine, I'll just shoot it or toss it in a trash can and empty a can of either in there". They shut the fuck up real quick.

I suppose were supposed to call the authorities and FORCE the neighbor to give a shit. Oh yeah that will work wonders for your relationship with the neighbor :rolleyes:

Ever had a local stray cat bully your indoor cats through the screen of your house? It sucks, can ya imagine?

Ever heard what stray cats sound like when they are in heet? It sucks and it is a nuisance, but what’s more of a nuisance is when the local tom cats come over and piss all over your door to mark their territory.

Perhaps we can all start our own stray cat shelter and find homes for stray cats? Naaaaa just shoot it and save everyone the trouble.

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OfflineNineInchNails
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: johnm214]
    #10269151 - 05/01/09 02:10 PM (15 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Exactly.  I don't know how "don't talk" turns into "make excuses" in people's mind.  Almost as bad as confessing.  You admit it in your denreports involving any conduct other than petty traffic.  It ain't the cops decisionial.  The cops don't care what your reasons are, and they don't care if your a good guy, its not even their decision so why are you trying to impress them?  My cop aquaintance's prosecutor reviews all police




You don't have to answer their questions. We are all well aware that the cops do not prosecute ... that's the prosecutor's job.

Who’s job do you think it is to collect the evidence to be used against you (for the prosecutor)? The cop's job of course. The prosecutor doesn’t run out to your home and ask ya questions … and if he did, ya tell him to piss off too.

Telling them to piss off is well within your rights. Telling them to piss off is not evidence or an admission of guilt. That’s just an ASSumption. An admission of guilt is what they get if they keep ya talking.

Sitting there BSing with the cop isn't going to help anyone but the cops. They’ll likely try and get you to admit something directly or indirectly. Who cares how the cop ‘feels’ when you tell him to get lost. His feelings are not part of the record. His ‘hunch’ based on what you say is not fact or part of the record.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10290234 - 05/05/09 12:57 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

They can't search first-class mail once it has postage on it without a warrant.




I thought it had to actually be in the mail stream to have that type of protection.





I don't think so.  If it's got postage on it then it's part of the mailing process.  It wouldn't make sense if they could just search the package when it was on your doorstep and then claim it wasn't "in the mailstream" yet.

Maybe someone could figure this aspect out a little better and enlighten us.


-FF

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: fastfred]
    #10292960 - 05/05/09 07:58 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Ive read somewhere that it has to be in the hands of the government to be considered in the mailing process.

That means when it is between drop-off and pick-up the package cannot be searched, but possession before and after is fair game.


--------------------

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OfflineMrGreen
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Green_T]
    #10293517 - 05/05/09 09:16 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

You did the right thing.

Just by you saying you didn't do the crime, that gives them a case to work off of. If you don't say you did it or you didn't do it, they need to find evidence. Which they can't find.

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OfflineViciousend
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10294720 - 05/06/09 12:42 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Sounds like you handled the situation well but you have a child and you've been shooting cats with a BB gun. Use your head.


--------------------
Is there an indelible line between sanity and insanity? Or do they change, from one into the other, without the slightest provocation? We'll find out that the world itself is insane.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Application of principles learned in this Forum [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10294748 - 05/06/09 12:50 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
ran its course

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