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 veggie
Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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 [NC] Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense   2
#10239895 - 04/26/09 10:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense
April 27, 2009 - citizen-times.com
By John Boyle
 Clifton Ingram may not be a brilliant legal strategist, but I've got to admit he's got gumption to spare.
Enough to plead for leniency in front of the district attorney while quite high — but we'll get to that in a minute.
Ingram, 32, strongly believes that God gave us marijuana and mushrooms and that these “gifts” should be celebrated, not used as a cause to arrest folks. As he was arrested for possession of mushrooms in December, he hopes to plead this defense to a jury.
“The point I'm trying to make is that God's law is higher than man's law,” Ingram told me. He was out protesting downtown last week, carrying a sign that said “Mushrooms & marijuana come from God.”
A little background: Ingram had planned to attend the Warren Haynes Christmas Jam on Dec. 13 and was sitting in his car near downtown, sipping on a cold beer out of a coffee mug and sampling a hallucinogenic mushroom or two.
“I had the bag open, and I put one in between my lip and my teeth — I put it in sort of as a dip, because you really don't need that much,” Ingram said. “I looked over, and I had blue lights on me.”
He wasn't hallucinating quite yet. Asheville's finest were on the scene and proceeded to search his vehicle and discovered what they said was 10 grams of hallucinogenic mushrooms.
Ingram disputes that amount, noting that he bought a quarter-ounce, or seven grams, and had taken some, leaving at most 6 grams. At any rate, he found himself charged with felony possession of illegal drugs.
It's a Class-I felony, and Ingram has a relatively clean record, so he's likely facing a maximum sentence of probation and mandatory drug testing. But Ingram, a graduate of Auburn University with a degree in management information systems, doesn't want his record besmirched.
“Not only that, but I can't run for public office, I can't vote, I can't go to law school — this felony would basically follow me for the rest of the life,” he said.
So, with his public defender, he recently went to seek leniency or possibly dismissal of the charges from District Attorney Ron Moore. The meeting did not go well, possibly because Ingram admittedly got quite stoned before the visit.
“This guy was mean,” Ingram said of Moore, acknowledging that “my eyes were red from smoking marijuana. He was trying to get me to rat out who the mushrooms were from. He said, ‘Where did the mushrooms come from?' I said, ‘From God.'”
He replied similarly when asked where the pot came from and says Moore quickly lost patience with him, saying Ingram should not drive home. “He lumped me into a bunch of people he considers no-gooders,” Ingram said.
Ron Moore was out last week and I couldn't get a comment from him. Assistant District Attorney Chris Hess said the office does not comment on pending cases.
I've talked to Moore — a law and order kind of guy who can be a real hard case — many times — and I suspect he was not amused with Ingram's legal approach.
Ingram says he has a court date Monday, but the DA's office said he's on the docket for May 4. Today's hearing may be about the legality of the search and a motion for suppression Ingram's public defender has filed.
Ingram said his public defender (who didn't return my calls) is going to argue the search that turned up the mushrooms was illegal because the hallucinogens weren't visible, and he was simply drinking in public.
In a way, though, Ingram wants the chance to argue his “God gave us mushrooms” defense to a jury. Ingram believes so deeply in his use of marijuana and mushrooms that he considers it close to being his religion.
“I don't do any kind of synthetic drugs — I don't even like pills,” he said. “God gave us marijuana and mushrooms to use. If you have a good, sound mind and body, they can be a very spiritual and uplifting experience.”
And he's convinced that 12 of his Buncombe County peers will be sympathetic to his cause.
“I feel if it goes to the jury I'll have a good chance, because I'll have 12 of my peers judging me,” said Ingram, obviously a “glass half full” guy when it comes to optimism. “Unfortunately, they'll kind of have to go against the law to find me innocent. But I want to say there's a higher law.”
Sure, Ingram may be happily delusional, but you've got to admit he might just be the most optimistic 'shroomer in America.
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 PilzeEssen
Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7,312
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#10239972 - 04/26/09 10:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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hell fuckin yea. i wish the best of luck to that guy. more power to him!!!
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"The soul has greater need of the ideal than of the real. It is by the real that we exist, it is by the ideal that we live."
If you want to get a hold of me, my email address is in my profile. Just click on my screen name. I got banned from using private messages cause I didn't follow the rules... 
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thegoat191
Buddha nature
 
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: PilzeEssen]
#10239997 - 04/26/09 10:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Wow! Imagine if a jury dismissed his charges! Can a judge overrule that?
This guy's case may set a precedent for states to decriminalize mushrooms.
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NastyDHL
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#10240051 - 04/26/09 10:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said:
Sure, Ingram may be happily delusional, but you've got to admit he might just be the most optimistic 'shroomer in America.
All of us are delusional, but most are not happy.
And the author would be surprised at how optimistic us 'shroomers tend to be.
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ArthurSalenez
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: NastyDHL]
#10240235 - 04/26/09 11:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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True, I guess Mr. John Boyle has obviously never tripped on shroomies before. I pity him, he's missed out on a lot of shit..like the pink elephants and the blue T-rex. 
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T-Rex
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: ArthurSalenez]
#10240297 - 04/26/09 11:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good luck to him, Good to see that someone who has been caught try to prove his reasons for using, which to me sound true in everyway, but you never know who gets called for jury duty.
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Naxx
LSD to DMT
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: T-Rex]
#10240361 - 04/26/09 11:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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silly people who haven't taken the interest in expanding their mind's shouldn't write their observations of those who have, it only confuses the masses - when things like definitions to words like "delusion" become ever so skewed....
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derx
who run it
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Naxx]
#10240488 - 04/27/09 12:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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ron L moore can suck my fucking dick.
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better living through chemistry
OVERGROW the government!!
it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
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DrOli
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: thegoat191]
#10240877 - 04/27/09 02:23 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
thegoat191 said:
Wow! Imagine if a jury dismissed his charges! Can a judge overrule that?
This guy's case may set a precedent for states to decriminalize mushrooms.
No, they can't over rule jury nullification. However, Judges do not need to tell juries about voting upon their morals and if the defense do mention it to them, they can be prosecuted.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: thegoat191]
#10241094 - 04/27/09 04:38 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
thegoat191 said:
Wow! Imagine if a jury dismissed his charges! Can a judge overrule that?
This guy's case may set a precedent for states to decriminalize mushrooms.
No a judge couldn't overturn it, but the jury would never hear that argument anyways as it would be irrelevant to whether he commited the elements of the offense.
This guy deserves absolutely nothing bad, but he's also the worst kind of stereotype. This will hurt the movement to recognize personal decisions that a state should not disturb.
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cokane
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: johnm214]
#10241268 - 04/27/09 06:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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first of all why is this jack ass eating shrooms and drinking beer in a parked car? find some place better to get high. if i am eating shrooms no way in hell i am drving.
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Green_T
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK 
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: cokane]
#10241297 - 04/27/09 06:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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He has a poor argument. It's too similar to that tshirt that says "god made weed, man made beer: who do you trust?".
Its not like the jury doesn't already know shrooms are found in nature.
The flaw is that god gave us other things (just because they are "natural" doesnt mean they are "good"), like rattlesnake poison, anthrax, spiders, poisonous shrooms etc. Also, some "synthetic drugs" like meth, have been discovered in nature. Does that mean they are given from god and fall under the same argument all of a sudden?
Prosecution will have a field day.
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cokane
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Green_T]
#10241389 - 04/27/09 07:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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cant fix stupid
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Visionary Tools
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#10241498 - 04/27/09 08:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Woe betide anyone that tried to argue that mushrooms and plants are not from god.
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tealeaf
Just Touch It
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10241680 - 04/27/09 09:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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“The point I'm trying to make is that God's law is higher than man's law,”
Jah Rastafari!
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zneocide
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: tealeaf]
#10241699 - 04/27/09 09:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Genesis 1.29-1.31
"29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
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Revolutionine
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: zneocide]
#10241755 - 04/27/09 09:56 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Although I don't see it happening, it would be sweet if they let this guy off. Also its hilarious that he was blasted when he met with the officer.
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All I ever wanted was to be free,
and in the end that's how it turned out to be...
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bbl337
genetic material is Ar based
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: zneocide]
#10241767 - 04/27/09 10:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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While I certainly don't agree that if "god made it it's good". And, that he was a friggen moron for doing anything in a car, whether moving or not, he doesn't deserve jail time for taking shrooms or smokin some bud 
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treesniper119
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: zneocide]
#10241770 - 04/27/09 10:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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For those so inclined... pray for your fellow shroomer. 
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Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.
Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.
Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...
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Brainiac
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: treesniper119]
#10241791 - 04/27/09 10:07 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
"god made weed, man made beer: who do you trust?".
He made both..God made the yeast, that made the alcohol in the beer........ 
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 Fair is Fair 
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mycoharry
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Brainiac]
#10242730 - 04/27/09 01:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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id give anything to be on that jury.you would think with so much of America supporting pot decriminalization that jury's would start finding people Innocent.
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we create realitys in our minds based on our own experiences, rather than fact. my experiences in life have been insane, so in reality i am in fact, INSANE...
-ME
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inkblot
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: johnm214]
#10242900 - 04/27/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
This guy deserves absolutely nothing bad, but he's also the worst kind of stereotype. This will hurt the movement to recognize personal decisions that a state should not disturb.
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feelfunny
I am you
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Brainiac]
#10243585 - 04/27/09 03:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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the defence might work, obama has passed a new law about searching peoples cars with no warrant, for any circumstances unless it is in plain sight
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IF A CAT AND DOG CAN GET ALONG WHY CANT EVERYONE ELSE?
If the sky is falling, don't look up! 
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Liquid Time
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: feelfunny]
#10243677 - 04/27/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Can't a man enjoy a coffee mug beer in his car these days?!?!
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flexfreak
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Brainiac]
#10243817 - 04/27/09 04:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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not real optimistic for this dude but GOOD LUCK BRO!
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Cubie
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#10243830 - 04/27/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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t hey are defiantly a gift from something
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SbstratAlchemist
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Cubie]
#10243919 - 04/27/09 04:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mushrooms and cannabis have been around a lot longer than the laws prohibiting them. This guy has a lot of courage to call society out on the absurdity of making a part of nature illegal.
I sure hope he gets a jury which is aware of nullification. If juries start refusing to convict people of non-violent drug crimes, the laws would change a lot faster.
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buddhabadger
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: SbstratAlchemist]
#10245128 - 04/27/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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The only problem I have with this guys' defence is that it ignores all the other things God made (to go with that paradigm... I'm not Christian myself) like botulin, datura, amanita phalloides, ebola, rabies and so on that aren't beneficial.
Kudos to him for having the sack to at least try it, but maybe smoking up beforehand wasn't the best idea.
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- I don't abuse drugs; in fact, I think I treat them quite nicely. -
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shah
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: buddhabadger]
#10246569 - 04/27/09 11:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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guy sounds like an idiot, he's trying to prove that he's an outstanding citizen that doesn't deserve anything on his record yet he shows up to his court meetings fucking stoned out of his mind. I agree that no one deserves a felony for possessing mushrooms. However this dude has such pathetic self discipline that his addictive personality prevented him from staying sober for just a moment.
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Heretic
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#10255406 - 04/29/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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FWIW - I submitted the following letter-to-the-editor
Clifton Ingram is putting his faith in a jury of his peers but his peer group is the minority subculture which accepts God’s gifts. Not one of them would be found capable of making an objective determination if a violation of the statute happened or not, being conscious as they are of the harms that befall a harmless person who is found guilty. The bleeding hearts will be free to go home with no blood on their hands. Look at the size of the jury pools needed to find a panel with the right stuff.
Let Mr. Ingram cop a plea by implicating the big fish in the cartel. God and Mother Nature conspire to provide rain, sunlight, and composted earth for illegal seeds, globally. Are the masterminds to get off scot-free, while little-guy copycats are selectively prosecuted? God has already confessed, in Genesis 11-12, it was He who created the seed-bearing plants, on the second day. Behold, He pronounces them very good, with no remorse for either weed, mushrooms, morning glories, coca, poppies or cacti. Neither has He apologized for afflicting humans with corporal wiring and plumbing that is sensitive to the taboo substances. Negligent.
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Heretic
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Clifton Ingram's public statement about it [Re: flexfreak] 1
#12933037 - 07/21/10 10:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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To Whom this May Concern,
Today is the day after Independence Day for me in 2010. In 2008 I was going to a concert, was illegally searched, and arrested for having a bag of mushrooms in my console. I had put a beer in a coffee cup to drink before the concert and this was used to search my car. After parking my car I turned on my interior light to choose a mushroom to eat before the concert and to pray. I looked to my right and saw blue lights. At this point I probably should have locked my car doors, ate the whole quarter ounce of mushrooms and slammed the beer and proceeded way farther into mushroom land than I ever dreamed possible. Instead, my little mug of beer and bag of mushrooms landed me on a mentally, physically, spiritually, and financially draining trip through the justice system that is still going on today and likely to keep going on forever.
After the female officer patted me down and searched my person, I was placed in the back of the police car while the male officer searched for warrants. Meanwhile, the female police officer, without consent, reached in my window and unlocked my car and then proceeded to confiscate my mushrooms and dog treats that looked like a drug I suppose. In court my lawyer offered proof that it was unreasonable to look for evidence of beer consumption in the console of my '99 Subaru but to no avail. The ONE judge that looked at my case says the evidence should be admitted, and that is it; case closed. Logically they have me beat, "I had illegal mushrooms in my car". This was my "statement of guilt" which my public defender and I wrote onto the form for 90-96. 90-96 is the standard first time offender treatment. The secretary in the public defender's office warned me that this statement was not "sorry" enough and that the DA likely would not approve 90-96 unless I was sorry. I told her I was sorry to go through this...i.e. lawyer visits, numerous trips to court, drug counseling, community service, urine gathering, DNA gathering, not being able to vote, own a gun, work at certain places, and generally pursue happiness the way I see fit. I told her I was the victim not the state of NC! WHY CAN ABSOLUTELY NO ONE SEE THIS AS A VALID POINT!
My view was never summoned by the court, and I brought up my constitutional rights on multiple occasions to my public defender and my court appointed lawyer and they were NEVER considered. In fact my public defender told me blatantly to NOT mention my constitutional rights to the DA at our meeting! That particular day my public defender said bring $500 to the court room and all of this would be over. Our application for 90-96 was approved but then somehow not approved and I'd be willing to bet it had to do with that secretary? We went to meet with the DA personally and that is when the fireworks began. He didn't shake my hand and greeted me with "Who the hell are you and why the hell should I help you?" I told him (as I was instructed) how I had community service set up at Rainbow Mountain School to which he replied "I don't want you anywhere near children!" He exclaimed how much he hated the concert goers that bring their drugs into "his town" and mentioned Widespread Panic fans by name. Now it just so happens that I was going to the "Warren Hayne's Christmas Jam" which is a benefit for Habitat for Humanity. The night before I literally rubbed elbows with Warren on the observation "muscian" stage and I watched how he was treated. If this is anybody's town it is Warren Hayne's town! I didn't tell the DA all this, I simply said that I was an individual and deserved to be treated as such. My lawyer insisted on me calling him a specific title which I can't remember; I just kept calling him "your honor" which looking back was quite wrong.
To the DA I am a "doper" and he vehemently HATES dopers; just ask him. To me dope is what I put on a pipe thread in plumbing or perhaps heroin and I would never touch that stuff. I won't take a pill unless I have to, and you can forget snorting something up my nose. I have recently quit smoking tobacco on May 13th, 2010 just before my daughter was born and feel like that was a huge accomplishment! Tobacco is extremely addictive and because I smoked more than a pack a day it was extremely unhealthy. Marijuana and Mushrooms are not addictive, nor would I do them all the time....however when the DA asked when was the last time I smoked, and my reply was that morning, he was furious. He felt my action was dangerous and had endangered his daughter's school bus while I was driving to court. I told him that there were no statistics to back up his allegations and he disagreed and thought hospital ER records would prove marijuana smoking was dangerous. He now had the ammo he needed..."Where did the mushrooms come from?" he asked hoping I would rat out my supplier...."God" I said... Quickly and furiously he asked "Where did the marijuana come from?" "God" I replied. He was livid though he did admit that I would have gotten my 90-96 if I would have only given him the names of my dealers. I admit I would have had more respect for him if he would have given me the name of his church and pastor...and I did ask him. I know he goes somewhere every Sunday. I would like to question him about "Manna" and also "Fragrant Incense?"
"Mushrooms and Marijuana Come from God" was what my sign read. A one man parade was I through the streets of Asheville with my afro wig, marijuana leigh, and tin whistle on 4-20-09. People honked and gave me thumbs up and smiled. Perhaps they didn't read the back of my sign "Oppressed and Terrorized Minority?" I marched all over the city that day and ended up running across an Asheville Citizen Times photographer in front of "Trips" close to the courthouse. An article was written by John Boyle about me and my view of "God's law being higher than man's law". My public defender was outraged and thought this went against his ability to adequately defend me. Court records of my statements to the judge would prove how inadequate he had already defended me. I was pleased when he withdrew from the case. The day before I distributed a 5 page essay about my religious views of mushrooms and marijuana to 12 different ministers around Asheville and to a Mason who was locking up the temple. The one that made its way to the courtroom that Monday (apparently an assistant DA) was placed on the St. Mark's Lutheran church in and envelope titled "I will not, and can not recant!"
I was graciously given a divorce lawyer for my "court appointed" lawyer. She was very nice but could not "zeolously" defend me she admitted. She was also scared to take this case to trial because she had minimal experience as a trial lawyer, much less at the NC Superior Court level! Both of these lawyers coerced me to give up my right to not self-incriminate, as well as my right to a jury trial, in favor of appealing the illegal search decision. Both said that even by pleading guilty I could appeal the search and seizure and that was the best course of action. With the "Gant" ruling coming from the U.S Supreme court I thought I had a strong case for the suppression of evidence. Without the evidence the state would basically dismiss the case they had against me and I would immediately get my "citizen rights" back. My trial lawyer said that she researched this for 10 hours and asked the court for recovery of that expense. She told me that her normal fee was $225 an hour and because she was court appointed she could only charge $75 an hour and she was not happy about it. Neither was I. I was called that day of trial at 10:00 in the morning on my way to work with an eighth of a tank of gas and 2 dollars in my wallet. Because I had to cancel with that client in order to go to court I had to play my accordion that weekend on the street to make my credit card payment of $150. I did it to! Ironically a good days pay for me is $150 doing carpentry/handyman work and that was extraordinary for playing music on the street.
My probation was "stayed" until after the appeals process. I found this out from my appeals lawyer a month after I was involved in the probation process. I called my court appointed lawyer and he told me this could take a year or a year and a half. How much time did he take; how much money did he make? Why did he only write a certified letter and not call me in January? Every lawyer has a cell phone but apparently they are too busy to call clients...My public defender stood me up 4 out of 5 scheduled appointments and called me one time...by accident.
My probation officer has over 70 people to look after and he admittedly can not test for mushrooms. He knows how I feel about marijuana but gave me a month to quit when I was supposedly on probation and I did. This was in June of '09. All other drugs are in and out in 3 days or less, only marijuana resides in the urine for up to 30 days. It just so happens marijuana is the only drug I do regularly. Mushrooms are for sure an occasional thing. Involuntarily last 4th of July I smoked no marijuana, I remember calling my probation officer and telling him I didn't feel very free in my own country. Ironically last 4th I wasn't on probation and they thought I was, and this 4th according to my appeals lawyer I am on probation and according to my probation officer I am still in appeals....PAUSE for the cause, a toke and blessings to God:)
I do believe in God and I leave as much as possible in the hands of the divine but I feel somewhat helpless especially in the realm of law. I trusted these lawyers, what choice do I have? Be my own lawyer...yeah right. I would forget some specific sentence and they would throw the whole thing out! Well, that is exactly what happened! My court appointed lawyer didn't specifically state that my guilty plea was conditional upon the appeal! Seems like a no brainer to me! After a year goes by I call my appeal lawyer and say hey, its been a year, what is going on? He calls me back and says in January it was dismissed (not the good kind), in other words not even looked at by the appeal court and that I was on probation since January!
According to my appeal lawyer, I may have slipped through the cracks and that 90-96 is a good thing because it can go away. Great, but not until I fulfill the obligations (<$700 in fees, counseling, community service, monthly urination for a year or more, and home/car searches whenever they want) Oh, and the apparently incompetent trial lawyer quoted me $500 to get the record expunged. Not to mention one probation violation and perhaps I go to jail. Who knows there might be a warrant out for my arrest right now and how would I know? A good friend of mine is in jail for that very reason. One small marijuana nugget and now he has no way to provide for his two kids.
I went to court more times than I can count. I have court room poetry to prove it! I am appalled at how we are treated there. I, for instance, had a $1000 bounty over my head to make sure I showed up every time; they call it bail. I was 20 minutes late and had a warrant out for my arrest. Time after time I showed up, in suit and tie, and trimmed and shaved which was much colder than my normal winter hair. On the way up to the DA's I was in the elevator with my public defender and several other lawyers and I put on my hat because my short hair and balding head were cold...The lawyer said I was the smartest one in the elevator. Lots of people say I look like a sherpa when I wear that hat because of the decorative multicolor tassles. Sometimes I wear an afro wig for fun. I always wear my hair and beard long in the winter because it is warmer, not lawyer type brilliance, but layman brilliance. Perception is everything in courtroom and when meeting the DA I certainly took off my hat and talked to him with as much respect as I could muster. Hard to respect a system that can imprison you for 30 days for wearing a hat in the courtroom or can take your cell phone for texting, which by the way the lawyers do frequently with no punishment.
The system is jaded against layman. I had two prominent, highly recommended lawyers quote me a "retainer" fee for my case. One charged me $100 just to talk to him and for $1600 more he could "beg" the DA to reduce the charge to a lesser charge. He and the DA "are close." The other gave me a free consultation and he was super impressive but charged $3500 to $5000. If I had it, I might have payed it. (I actually painted his garage for about $15 an hour through a separate contractor) He explained to me that I had a class "I" felony. Since I was a first time offender, in the felony matrix I was in the bottom right hand corner next to the mandatory sentence of "probation." Wow, the same as 90-96! I thought why not take it to jury? Apparently, the costs are staggering if you lose; and what are the chances of convincing a jury of innocence? They have the mushrooms, the expert that says they are illegal, and buncombe county jurors to back them up? I would not necessarily call them "my peers" either. If it were just the $12 a day per juror that they pay them that wouldn't be that bad but I was led to believe that to try me would end up costing me a whole lot of money. Besides, if one juror says guilty and eleven say not-guilty it is a MISTRIAL and they try me again, and again, and again according to my lawyers until they get a guilty verdict.
They had me beat, and they knew it. I had supporters but how many could I get to testify? Though the SPEEDY jury trial took 6 months before the jury pool sat waiting to come in I got a one hour notice that they were trying me that very day! I had a lunch break to gather my forces and then made the choice to surrender (plead guilty) based on what I thought was the fact that I could appeal the suppression before a court of appeals. A few people (appeal court) would have to read my case, my stance, my article in the paper, my essay, and my plea for constitutional liberty at least so I thought. Now this letter is my only recourse.
Search and Seizure, Freedom of Speech, Freedom to Peacefully Assemble, Freedom To Practice My Religion, Equal Protection, A Speedy Trial with Zeolous Lawyer, to Not Self-Incriminate all of these "Constitutional Rights" were breached in my particular case. I am 1/32 Native American and it is widely known that they used mushrooms and are actually allowed to use peyote sacredly. A concert may not seem "sacred" to the reader but it certainly is to me. I have had some experiences that can't be put into words; only remembered as touching the heart of the divine and comprehending beyond understanding. Rastafarians call it an "overstanding" and of course marijuana is a sacrament in their religion. It is shared like a fine cigar or peace pipe and all classes of people cherish its flower essence. Mushrooms and other "entheogens" are used by modern man and were used by prehistoric man to achieve a lucid, vision enhancing state; a transcendent state, and in the right environment it is amazing. In jail would not be my choice of places to experience this but God put me there perhaps to tell this story. If God is for us who can be against us? Our eyes are red with peace and yours are red with anger. My view of God and Jesus is much more peaceful, and I think they would disapprove of how we are treated by the Criminal Justice system.
Lots of "us" feel helpless, and lots of "them" hide behind a justice system that "pads" them from ever getting in trouble. The law is uneven and the law making body is oblivious to what their bad laws are doing to us. We are basically handcuffed and sucker punched until we scream "UNCLE!" Like I said, this is not a fair fight, and I'm just about ready to say uncle. Almost... I'm going to send out this open letter. Perhaps we can make a movie or write a book about it? I would fight fist to fist, or in a chess match, but concerning the law I might as well raise the white flag. Maybe the reader agrees? Maybe we will all start to Ohm during court until these bozos treat us with respect? Follow cops around looking for evidence of a crime? Something needs to be done! The laws need to be simplified where commoners such as my self can defend themselves. Non-violent criminals...i.e. drug users need to be treated with respect and not lumped feloniously in with murders, and rapists and concert goers. In my case the ongoing punishment (now over a year and a half) is far greater than the crime. If you can, than please do something. If you can't; please pray and leave it in the hands of God like I do. Thanks for reading all of this. If you would like to speak to me in person contact me.
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Heretic
member
Registered: 07/28/00
Posts: 44
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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News story update [Re: Heretic]
#12933054 - 07/21/10 10:19 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010307150029
John Boyle: Time for Asheville's mushroom warrior to take the best deal
John Boyle
Sometimes, I just have to break it to folks — hard.
And today, I've got to break it to Clifton Ingram, a good-natured guy whom I enjoy chatting with, that he needs to give up his crusade to have hallucinogenic mushrooms legalized.
Oh, and he also must seize a golden opportunity to get a felony expunged from his record.
A little background: Back in April 2009 I wrote a column about Ingram, who got busted by Asheville police the preceding December before the Warren Haynes Christmas Jam when they caught him in his car, sipping a beer out of a coffee mug and nibbling on some ‘shrooms.
He got charged with a felony but insisted all along that mushrooms are “a gift from God,” and that he was responsible to God's law, which supersedes man's.
Eventually, adhering to his attorney's advice, he pleaded guilty to the felony under a provision of the law called “90-96.” It allows first-time offenders to have the felony expunged — or erased — from their record after a year, if they follow all the provisions of their probation.
Ingram says his lawyers also filed an appeal in his case, arguing that the police officers' search of him and his vehicle, which turned up the mushrooms, was illegal. But that appeal got denied.
So, he got a felony conviction, a fine of $741, a year's probation and four months in jail. The jail time was suspended, though, as long as he behaved during probation.
Ingram was a bit confused about when his probation ran out, which apparently happened in June, and he acknowledges that he hasn't proceeded with the drug education class that is part of the probation requirements.
“That was on the agenda,” said Ingram, a graduate of Auburn University who works as a carpenter and handyman.
He knows he should take the class and pursue the expungement, but it's hard for Ingram to fully submit to the legal system. And he admits that he's been probably a little too forthright in sharing his opinions about “God's gifts” and the inequities of the legal system.
“I think I flipped them out because I just try to be honest,” said Ingram, who lives in Barnardsville with his fiancée and their baby. “It's hard for me to bow down to this system that doesn't respect me or other people. I know I need to now, though, because I have a child.”
Ingram's attorney, Johanna Finkelstein, confirmed that Ingram can pursue expungement if he satisfies all the probation requirements.
District Attorney Ron Moore, who admittedly was miffed with Ingram a year and a half ago when the defendant came to his office to plead his case — while stoned — said this week Ingram has a golden opportunity. His office handles about 10 of the “90-96” cases a year, usually for younger people who've made a mistake.
“If you behave yourself, go to the (drug) school and come back a year from now, we wipe away your conviction — what more can you ask for?” Moore said. “You can get a felony off your record.”
Ingram — who maintains “I'm not a doper; I'm just a fun person” — already has cleaned up his act, eschewing marijuana and ‘shrooms to pass his probation tests, and even quitting tobacco. Now 33, he feels that he has matured and wants the felony off his record so he can pursue jobs without worry and be able to vote again.
He told me he has “a feeling the lessons from this are probably going to echo throughout eternity.
“It would be nice to have my citizenship rights back,” Ingram said. “I think the judge was right — nothing is going to be done about these laws in the judicial system.”
But a second later, he started in on how his “constitutional rights got stepped on,” saying he wants to work to get the state laws changed. He's mulling a grassroots campaign, and more…
“I would consider running for office, but right now I can't even vote,” Ingram said. “I've written politicians before, but I haven't had much success.”
Oh boy.
When mushroom enthusiasts start talking about running for office, it's time for a brutal reality check: Clifton, give it up.
This state will never legalize hallucinogenic mushrooms, partly because we could really run into a lot of societal problems with people hallucinating their faces off and trying to drive cars or fly off buildings, partly because no politician would ever take on this cause and expect to get re-elected (unless he's hallucinating his face off).
So, let it go, man. Get the expungement. Get a clean record. Pay a lawyer to help you, and move on with your life.
That's a trip that makes sense.
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scienceguy
Instrument
Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 1,983
Loc: One Mile High...
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: News story update [Re: Heretic]
#12934848 - 07/22/10 10:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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John Boyle is an asshole who lacks understanding.
Clifton, don't give up. Don't sweat the classes, they're just opportunities to teach more people the truth.
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"Freedom starts between the ears."
Edward Abbey
Edited by scienceguy (07/22/10 10:58 AM)
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Konyap
Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Quote:
scienceguy said:
John Boyle is an asshole who lacks understanding.
Clifton, don't give up. Don't sweat the classes, they're just opportunities to teach more people the truth.
Quote:
scienceguy said:
John Boyle is an asshole who lacks understanding.
Clifton, don't give up. Don't sweat the classes, they're just opportunities to teach more people the truth.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Awesome job, man. You are passionate, articulate, and a hero. I hope you get real justice.
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Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: veggie]
#12940705 - 07/23/10 12:14 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, awesome story.. thanks for posting that letter. +1
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,739
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: Adamist]
#12942371 - 07/23/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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People who use the other stuff say that it is sacred to them, FWIW.
AFAIC, it's not any of my business, if you don't make it my business.
I can't responsibly say that these questions will help you, but, out of curiosity...
Was your alleged statement of guilt made, before or after you heard your Miranda rights?
And, where is the tangible proof that you had made such a statement?
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CLIFTONINGRAM
Stranger
Registered: 07/23/10
Posts: 1
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: durian_2008] 1
#12943215 - 07/23/10 09:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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I made the statement for 90-96 "I had mushrooms in my car" and that was my guilt...now obviously that didn't fly but that is what I was instructed to put down by my lawyer...to me, this is a function of money and time and I have very little of either and it has taken too much of both BUT singing "This little light of mine" going up the stairs to court, or parading in afro wigs with tin whistles doesn't exactly say "let this one go" either. I guess I want(ed) to make a point but seriously do I want to bang my head against a wall? No. I am an easiest course floater on this earthly plane and only when I feel backed into a corner do I come out swinging (not literally because I am not violent) Something HAS to be done but what? The justice system is a beast not to be tamed and the media does very little, ask John Boyle? In fact why am I here at Shroomery.org? I'll tell you why, cause most of you agree with me whereas the mainstream may or may not. Boyle doesn't agree, but at least he states my point which I truly appreciate. YOU KNOW MY POINT, what I can't even describe, because you have been there. I feel like I missed an important opportunity by pleading guilty but someone somewhere has been touched by this case and feels incl ined to help me. What is good and what is bad? Who really knows? All we can do is go with the flow...be like a child and soak it all in...that is what mushrooms teach us...that everything is exactly as it should be. thanks to the heretic that posted this...
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: thegoat191]
#12943342 - 07/23/10 10:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
thegoat191 said:
Wow! Imagine if a jury dismissed his charges! Can a judge overrule that?
Nope, the jury has the final say. I wish I was on that jury.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,739
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: Calling hallucinogenic mushrooms a ‘gift from God' certainly a novel defense [NC] [Re: CLIFTONINGRAM]
#12945285 - 07/24/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
CLIFTONINGRAM said:
I made the statement for 90-96
Thanks. I get it, now.
Personal acquaintances of mine had false statements signed on their behalf.
I was aware that you had not maintained that you were innocent, but I got hung up on the numbers, as I was unfamiliar with them.
Quote:
G.S. 90-96 is one of the densest, most used, and most misunderstood statutes on the books.
I'm not under the impression that I can win an encyclopedic, legal debate, using only my short term memory.
But, I believe that a person is effectively deprogrammed, when they can consider their own part in a given situation.
I used non-threatening language to explain that I am under duress, by an act of their free will.
I read a news story about a granny getting tazed for taking an aggressive posture in her hospital bed, but, by politely calling stuff what it is, I've been lucky enough to get out of trouble, while dressed in leathers.
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