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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
wine tomato sauce
    #10227761 - 04/24/09 05:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

whats a good kinda wine to put in a meat sauce!


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: thedudenj]
    #10227770 - 04/24/09 06:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I haven't tried it yet...but the Jalapeno Wine I'm making is supposed to be amazing in a red pasta sauce!

As for others...generally any red wine is good for sauces.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleParaboloid
mountain goat

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Subpellis
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: trendal]
    #10227775 - 04/24/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, Cabernet or Merlot.

try to stay clear of Port, or Sangria.


--------------------
With black clouds storming
I walk without umbrellas into these woods
Don't need em cause the mighty trees above will shelter me good
I'm eating berries from the bushes of the heavenly good

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: trendal]
    #10227778 - 04/24/09 06:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

wtf is Jalapeno wine never heard of it. any who i dont know if the store would carry that.

i dont know anything about red wines whats one thats yummy i prefer drinking whites and rosa ones cause i find red too blah. whats a good red thats not blah


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: thedudenj]
    #10227791 - 04/24/09 06:08 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I doubt you could find any Jalapeno wine anywhere... :smirk:

It's more of a do-it-yourself kind of wine. Or, at the least, you would have to know someone who does do it themselves :wink:

Try a Merlot, to start with.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: trendal]
    #10227797 - 04/24/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

whats Chianti  like compared to merlot cause i keep seeing in recipes Chianti


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleParaboloid
mountain goat

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 271
Loc: Subpellis
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: thedudenj]
    #10228492 - 04/24/09 08:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Cabernet is popularly called a "steak wine"
its good with meats!
usually pretty dry

merlot is a little fruitier
more "full" tasting
more "hydrating"

I've used both Chianti and Sherry in cooking before, and find they are only good in a small variety of dishes. Chianti and Sherry are also much more expensive, its not hard to find a good bottle of Merlot or Cabernet for 2$.

Charles Shaw is a good brand, also known as Two buck chuck!


"Two buck chuck! fucks me up!"
:lol:


--------------------
With black clouds storming
I walk without umbrellas into these woods
Don't need em cause the mighty trees above will shelter me good
I'm eating berries from the bushes of the heavenly good

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Invisiblesoochi
Chef
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: thedudenj]
    #10228768 - 04/24/09 09:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Preferably the wine you will be eating with your sauce. So at least something that is meant to be drunk. Stay away from "Cooking Wine" it's not really wine and it's chock full of salt. Meat sauces I actually like cooking with a white wine (or a fairly young red) since old red wine would be too tannic especially after reduction. A nice cheap Pinot Grigio, Soave or drier Riesling or for red a Chianti or Barbera D'Asti.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!

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Offlinedopelogic
Avid Lurker

Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 51
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: soochi]
    #10240399 - 04/26/09 11:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The general rule is, whatever you would drink. Don't use a cheap wine that you wouldn't drink or it will make your sauce taste like that wine. I'd recommend a good Cabernet to use with a pasta sauce.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods

Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: dopelogic]
    #10241463 - 04/27/09 08:15 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

eh i used merlot what would of been sweet is if i had wine caps


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinestefan
work in progress


Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: thedudenj]
    #10267689 - 05/01/09 09:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

a strong tasting red wine (there must be a better description for this...)
but I would't use something like bordeaux, tastes too much like blackcurrant

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Offlineeastuvdariver
Stranger thanwho?

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 201
Loc: birdhouse in your soul
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: stefan]
    #10316753 - 05/10/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

traditional bolognese(tomato-meat sauce) would be made with red wine.
then again it would also traditionally contain milk or cream, which has become unpopular in italian-american versions.

i guess it all depends on your taste, as well as what you plan to serve along side of it.

the meat sauce i make at home uses no wine whatsoever, just a dash of red wine vinegar. the lamb bolognese we serve at work is made with cabernet sauvignon or malbec, depending on what we have over abundance of.

now for a meatless sauce like marinara, or for chicken(ie;cacciatore), or seafood(cioppino, linguine with clam sauce, etc) i would always use a milder white such as pinot gris, reisling.

to be honest i don't think there is a correct answer to this.
depends on your taste, what you drink with the meal, what kind of budget you have, the day of the week...

just don't use manaschevitz....


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DISCLAIMER: anything posted by ME are strictly the opinions of ME and does not reflect the opinions of friends,family,affiliates,etc. of ME. the opinions of ME may not apply to you, it may not apply to ME next week or tommorow as the opinions of ME reserve the right to be changed at anytime.

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Invisiblesoochi
Chef
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10318731 - 05/10/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

The recipe issued in 1982 by the Bolognese delegation of Accademia Italiana della Cucina confines the ingredients to beef, pancetta, onions, carrots, celery, tomato paste, meat stock, WHITE wine, and (optionally) milk or cream. This recipe is actually engraved on a plaque in front of the city hall of Bologna.

Real Bolognese Sauce isn't very red at all.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!

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Offlineeastuvdariver
Stranger thanwho?

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 201
Loc: birdhouse in your soul
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: soochi]
    #10322246 - 05/11/09 12:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for the interesting tidbit about "Bolognese delegation of Accademia Italiana della Cucina"

i'm going to disagree with you about bolognese being "red". certainly not red in the sense that many other tomato based sauces are, but red nonetheless.

my grandfather was from modena, very near bologna. he always used pork and beef, as well as pancetta, and red wine.

it would be very ignorant to say that there is a correct way to make bolognese or any old world dish. old world cooking was always based on what was available to the cook at the time of preparation, not on recipe.

as well educated and clearly knowledgable of a chef as you are, you should be aware of this.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: anything posted by ME are strictly the opinions of ME and does not reflect the opinions of friends,family,affiliates,etc. of ME. the opinions of ME may not apply to you, it may not apply to ME next week or tommorow as the opinions of ME reserve the right to be changed at anytime.

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Invisiblesoochi
Chef
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10322327 - 05/11/09 12:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Reread my comments, I actually say that Bolognese sauce isn't very red at all.

I am quite aware that people have ways of making things. But just as in the case with DOC pizza, the Italians take their traditional foods very seriously. Perhaps it is because everyone makes their sauce or pizza in a different way, the government wants to recognize the traditional ways of preparing food as a way of preserving the culture. Regardless if people want to make it that way or not. I am simply stating that there is in fact an "official" recipe for not only Bolognese sauce but for a lot of other traditional Italian dishes.

I lived in Europe for four years and in fact I just came back from a trip to France and Italy, so please don't figure me for the typically ignorant American. My food knowledge and preparation skill is quite vast and encompassing. I dare anyone on this site to question me about it.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!

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Offlineeastuvdariver
Stranger thanwho?

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 201
Loc: birdhouse in your soul
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10322335 - 05/11/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

let me apoligize to soochi for that last statement, it was rude and baseless.

i have respect for anyone who takes food as seriously as you seem to. thanks for spreading your knowledge.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: anything posted by ME are strictly the opinions of ME and does not reflect the opinions of friends,family,affiliates,etc. of ME. the opinions of ME may not apply to you, it may not apply to ME next week or tommorow as the opinions of ME reserve the right to be changed at anytime.

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Offlineeastuvdariver
Stranger thanwho?

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 201
Loc: birdhouse in your soul
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10322390 - 05/11/09 12:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

word, no disrespect intended.

i've read many of your posts and you are very knowledgeable. again, no disrespect intended.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: anything posted by ME are strictly the opinions of ME and does not reflect the opinions of friends,family,affiliates,etc. of ME. the opinions of ME may not apply to you, it may not apply to ME next week or tommorow as the opinions of ME reserve the right to be changed at anytime.

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InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
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Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: soochi]
    #10322612 - 05/11/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No no one has any 'official' recipe of anything.  I understand that the government thinks they have control over something like a food recipe, but it is all in their head.  For an example let me bring up the French system of controlling their language.  They have an official body to regulate the 'official' version of the French language.  They let in new words and try to keep out the homogenization of their language by excluding words such as 'computer'. 

Guess who cares?  Absolutely no one that I know (I lived there for a while, try finding any Frenchman who doesn't say computer).  Government jurisdiction does not extend to cultural items like food or language regardless of how much they wish it would. So while they might engrave a recipe on a plaque, or show up at your door and hand you a bag of the food items and watch you make the recipe with a gun to your head, ultimately the recipe will change organically as everything cultural always does.

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Invisiblesoochi
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: Chespirito]
    #10322822 - 05/11/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Again, I'm not saying everyone is going to make it to the exact "official recipe" all I am saying is that is EXISTS! That's all. Yes there are "official recipes" in Europe and especially in Italy. I've given a source. Where is yours?

"Government jurisdiction does not extend to cultural items like food and language?"

Really? so who exactly controls and governs D.O.C and A.O.C regions in Europe?...oh, that's right, the government. There are no laws governing food recipes (only declarations) if you want to make a dish the way you want, then go ahead. That's not the point I was trying to make. Anytime a country touts an "official" language, that is the government stepping in. There were debates in this country during the elections on whether English should be considered the "official" language of the U.S. (I for one agree) but issues like discrimination against minority groups came up since adopting an official language would have repricussions effecting everything from medical records to educational scholarships, so it was shot down. Also look up Austrailia's recent adoption of a "proper" version of their dialect. That is no doubt an example of direct intervention of the government (one I guess the Aussies don't mind)

Your French language theory proves my point, people aren't forced to talk a certain way, that I know. But the fact remains that their government has a system for preserving the cultural identity of their country. Regardless if people adopt it or not. So how is your example not one of government jurisdiction? The US had the national day of prayer last Thursday. Does that mean you had to pray? of course not, but the fact remains that President Obama was lawfully obligated to sign the declaration as per congressional act which was passed and approved by our government. (so much for separation of church and state) Face it government jurisdiction extends to pretty much everything we as citizens interact with on a daily basis. Whether we approve or go along with it or not.

Personally I think if we had such appellations/denominations for foodstuffs here in the U.S. it would no doubt increase the quality of our food supply. The closest thing we have here to that are labeling laws concerning wine and spirits.


--------------------
Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!

Edited by soochi (05/11/09 03:26 PM)

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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: wine tomato sauce [Re: soochi]
    #10323103 - 05/11/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You are missing the point entirely. 

My French analogy was brought up to show how little control the government has over cultural items.  The government can regulate all day about how the language is going to evolve, ultimately it is meaningless.  The citizens are still going to adopt English, German and whatever else words they want, hell they will invent new words and use those, all the while the French government is saying those words don't exist.  It is like a little boy holding his hands over his eyes telling the world how he wants it to be.  Governments might claim authority over things that belong to the people, however in the end it is an exercise in futility as cultures evolve over time, there can be no arguing with that. 

So the Italians might claim that this dish contains horse shit in it, post it on a plaque where everyone can see, make all the citizens of Italy sign a pack whereby they promise to use horse shit in their dish, ultimately the dish will change from its horse shit origins. 

Yes the EU can regulate food stuffs such as Cognac and other things and have them made in traditional areas.  While I find this practice absurd, (as you can buy the same shit made elsewhere they just need to call it a different name), it is to not have the corporate conglomerates take over all forms of traditional foodstuffs.  The xenophobic Europeans were afraid that one day their precious Cognac would be made by some Guatemalan boy and would water down their *ahem* heritage. 

So back to the dish at hand, is this the same as Cognac?  Clearly not as we are talking about a dish that has somehow been associated only with that region.  They are not producing a unique type of cheese, they are producing a dish that is not terribly unique when compared to dishes in Italy.  I'm sure you will take issue with that, but lets be honest man, back when I used to be unaware of all dishes and recipes I'm sure I stumbled upon a similar dish by drunkenly combining similar things.  I'm not saying it tasted great, but the dish is not strikingly independent of outside influences. Ive never stumbled upon Cognac or some strange cheese :shrug:

You have to ask yourself what the goal of regulating cultural items is.  Do we care if the US can only use English in official documentation, what goal does that achieve?  Is it just some abstract clinging onto the past, or do we expect the US as a whole to gain some added benefit? 

Do the Italians need to have a recipe become the official recipe?  What benefit does that serve?  To slice out history in pre-official Bolognese and post Bolognese?  Maybe we can date the future from AB to represent the importance of writing down what once was, (27 AB at the moment).  I guarantee you a few hundred years ago there were countless recipes of what is now some homogenized bureaucratically compromised recipe.

In the end I wish government would stick to what it is meant to do and get the fuck out of my life and cultures life.

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