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InvisibleJack Albertson
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The American Dream Doesnt Exist
    #10225052 - 04/24/09 08:47 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Im pretty confused about what the american dream actually is. Is it a dream based in happiness or materialism? Is it possible for one to be truly happy, based on how possessions? Personally i believe that the american dream was created to make it easier to go with the program. So let's say it is real and you can live the dream, then what? Is going to college getting a corporate job, having a nice car and a house in the suburbs the kind of mystical, other worldly dream that we experience when we sleep? or is it a waking dream, a grand distraction? I feel like a lot of people in my generation(x) have noticed this also. Since we have no great cause as previous generations were tricked into believing they had, what are we living for?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225206 - 04/24/09 09:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So does the dream exist or not?
You say that you don't believe it does, and yet you talk about it's effects. :lol:
BTW, what great cause did the previous generations have?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlineenergy
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225223 - 04/24/09 09:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think the American dream is that all people have an equal chance to do what ever they want. This is somewhat true.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: energy]
    #10225235 - 04/24/09 09:41 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

We all have an equal chance to use illegal drugs get caught and go to prison.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10225368 - 04/24/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So does the dream exist or not?
You say that you don't believe it does, and yet you talk about it's effects. :lol:
BTW, what great cause did the previous generations have?



you tell me whether or not dreams are real. and previous generations had wars, depressions, famines, epidemics, etc. Not saying we dont have that now, but it seems like as a nation we're over it. i said i wasnt entirely sure what the dream even is, so as for whether or not it exists, as i know it no it does not.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225377 - 04/24/09 10:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

but it seems like as a nation we're over it.

Another youngster who thinks history begins and ends with their lifetime.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10225406 - 04/24/09 10:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

that's not the case at all. I meant mentality wise. With all the shit we see on tv and in movies real life just isnt important anymore.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225417 - 04/24/09 10:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

To you maybe but the rest still get glued to their morning news report and send a check just like in the good old days. If we were over it, the news boys would quit reporting it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10225431 - 04/24/09 10:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i didnt say we're over getting our daily fix of violence on tv, but i believe we're over caring enough to do something.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225529 - 04/24/09 10:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Do something like what?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10225596 - 04/24/09 11:20 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
i didnt say we're over getting our daily fix of violence on tv, but i believe we're over caring enough to do something.





We never cared. We are and were the cause of much of the misery in the world. It was all PR and if anything has changed it that a few people are more media savvy. The 50s and 60s are over thank god.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226106 - 04/24/09 01:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
Im pretty confused about what the american dream actually is. Is it a dream based in happiness or materialism? Is it possible for one to be truly happy, based on how possessions?


What's the difference between fake happy and real happy? They may use material as a means to happiness, but I don't see how it can negate the worth of their happiness.

The American Dream is supposed to be that people have equal opportunity to reach their goals.


--------------------

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10226275 - 04/24/09 01:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Do something like what?



whatever needs to be done. take darfur for example, people used the media big time expose atrocities and the person that's done the most is george clooney? wtf? Before that it was rwanda and whatever other countries were in turmoil. Nothing changes other than the headlines. At least back in the day we had our own issues here and people focused on that. Now we hear about our problems, and the rest of the world's problems, and do nothing about any of them.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226502 - 04/24/09 02:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I don't understand your post.


Like mushroomtrip observes your statements are contradictory, and I don't get what you mean by "american dream" since you are ttalking about genocide and war and such.  What does this have to do with anything?


I thought the american dream was that you are limited only by your abilities and effort.



How is that not true?


Like icelander observes, the government works hard in some areas to quash this dream, though usually as a side effect of some stupid policy, but america is still quite free relative to other countries.



The ability to do what you want economically or personally is there and more available than other countries.


I don't even know what the materialism discussion has to do with anything.  Were you saying the american dream is to work for a corporation and own a car or something?  I've never heard that.

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Offlinespacemonkey69
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: johnm214]
    #10226555 - 04/24/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't understand your post.


Like mushroomtrip observes your statements are contradictory, and I don't get what you mean by "american dream" since you are ttalking about genocide and war and such.  What does this have to do with anything?


I thought the american dream was that you are limited only by your abilities and effort.



How is that not true?


Like icelander observes, the government works hard in some areas to quash this dream, though usually as a side effect of some stupid policy, but america is still quite free relative to other countries.



The ability to do what you want economically or personally is there and more available than other countries.


I don't even know what the materialism discussion has to do with anything.  Were you saying the american dream is to work for a corporation and own a car or something?  I've never heard that.





And Politically to an extent. With the right people and enough support your opportunities are limitless.


--------------------
"If you take a psychedelic,and aren't afraid you've done too much, you haven't done enough."

:mushroom2: Terence Mckenna :mushroom2:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: spacemonkey69]
    #10226608 - 04/24/09 02:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Then I can fly like superman?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: johnm214]
    #10226647 - 04/24/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't understand your post.


Like mushroomtrip observes your statements are contradictory, and I don't get what you mean by "american dream" since you are ttalking about genocide and war and such.  What does this have to do with anything?


I thought the american dream was that you are limited only by your abilities and effort.



How is that not true?


Like icelander observes, the government works hard in some areas to quash this dream, though usually as a side effect of some stupid policy, but america is still quite free relative to other countries.



The ability to do what you want economically or personally is there and more available than other countries.


I don't even know what the materialism discussion has to do with anything.  Were you saying the american dream is to work for a corporation and own a car or something?  I've never heard that.


The title of the post is opinion, my understanding of the american dream has always been living a life that fits perfectly into the system designed to make the idea of this country work. Which has nothing to do with economic freedoms and everything to do with tiered power systems and social classifications. Materialism is a big part of a lifestyle like imo. I wasnt aware that there was one designated definition of the american dream. i guess that makes this discussion pointless.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226651 - 04/24/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
whatever needs to be done. take darfur for example, people used the media big time expose atrocities and the person that's done the most is george clooney? wtf? Before that it was rwanda and whatever other countries were in turmoil. Nothing changes other than the headlines. At least back in the day we had our own issues here and people focused on that. Now we hear about our problems, and the rest of the world's problems, and do nothing about any of them.




I don't know why "people don't do something", but personally I choose to enjoy my own life with the people I love, and learn my own stuff. I can't say I feel completely ok with the fact that other people have it bad, but this doesn't crate a discomfort at a personal level. Different people with different lucks and different aptitudes to make what they want of their lives. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: spacemonkey69]
    #10226654 - 04/24/09 02:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

spacemonkey69 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't understand your post.


Like mushroomtrip observes your statements are contradictory, and I don't get what you mean by "american dream" since you are ttalking about genocide and war and such.  What does this have to do with anything?


I thought the american dream was that you are limited only by your abilities and effort.



How is that not true?


Like icelander observes, the government works hard in some areas to quash this dream, though usually as a side effect of some stupid policy, but america is still quite free relative to other countries.



The ability to do what you want economically or personally is there and more available than other countries.


I don't even know what the materialism discussion has to do with anything.  Were you saying the american dream is to work for a corporation and own a car or something?  I've never heard that.





And Politically to an extent. With the right people and enough support your opportunities are limitless.



everything is to an extent, that's kind of my point. That's not freedom.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226665 - 04/24/09 02:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Freedom is just a state of mind, so I don't know what you're trying to say with this statement. There will always be certain limitations imposed by reality, but this doesn't mean that one isn't free.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
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Registered: 04/14/06
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10226668 - 04/24/09 02:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
whatever needs to be done. take darfur for example, people used the media big time expose atrocities and the person that's done the most is george clooney? wtf? Before that it was rwanda and whatever other countries were in turmoil. Nothing changes other than the headlines. At least back in the day we had our own issues here and people focused on that. Now we hear about our problems, and the rest of the world's problems, and do nothing about any of them.




I don't know why "people don't do something", but personally I choose to enjoy my own life with the people I love, and learn my own stuff. I can't say I feel completely ok with the fact that other people have it bad, but this doesn't crate a discomfort at a personal level. Different people with different lucks and different aptitudes to make what they want of their lives. :shrug:



That's ok, but why shove all of the problems in our faces? Once youre aware of something it's hard to ignore it. I think it's kind of weird to have this obsession with policing the world but only when it's politically beneficial.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10226684 - 04/24/09 02:53 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Freedom is just a state of mind, so I don't know what you're trying to say with this statement. There will always be certain limitations imposed by reality, but this doesn't mean that one isn't free.



it's ok when it's imposed by reality, but not when it's a pseudo reality.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226695 - 04/24/09 02:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

That's ok, but why shove all of the problems in our faces?




Who's showing problems in whose face now?

Quote:

Once youre aware of something it's hard to ignore it.




Nobody was mentioning ignoring, but rather accepting the way things go.

Quote:

I think it's kind of weird to have this obsession with policing the world but only when it's politically beneficial.




I have no idea what you mean with this statement, can you rephrase it?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226699 - 04/24/09 02:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
it's ok when it's imposed by reality, but not when it's a pseudo reality.




Pseudo-reality? It's the first time I hear this term, what does it mean?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10226743 - 04/24/09 03:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

false reality? a reality created by humans. And by shoving it in our faces i mean reporting on all of these stories, constantly running and rerunning news on murders and what not. Every newspaper Every news station. I was watching this thing on nat geo about gitmo, and the guy that was in charge of giving newspapers to the prisoners was muslim also. He would take a black marker and edit images and certain stories out of the newspaper. I sat and thought about the impact that it would have on the reader. What impact do you think it would have on us if we just didnt know about what happens?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10226857 - 04/24/09 03:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

false reality? a reality created by humans.




Hold on a minute. People ARE part of reality, what makes you think that somehow, by some unknown process, their actions become not real?

Quote:

And by shoving it in our faces i mean reporting on all of these stories, constantly running and rerunning news on murders and what not.




What bothers you about these stories? And if it bothers you, why do you still watch TV?
But yeah, TV stations are just doing their jobs and finding stories that are most wanted by their audience, because this is how they get payed.
If people want to find out murders, then they look for this particular kind of information and give it to the public. Also, news are not only about murders, but also about politics, arts, scientific discoveries, people stories, etc.

Quote:

What impact do you think it would have on us if we just didnt know about what happens?




We don't know what happens. Most of this daily Earth's stories, most of what happens to people, the true reason behind some people's claims... we don't know almost anything.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10226910 - 04/24/09 03:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

false reality? a reality created by humans.




Hold on a minute. People ARE part of reality, what makes you think that somehow, by some unknown process, their actions become not real?

Quote:

And by shoving it in our faces i mean reporting on all of these stories, constantly running and rerunning news on murders and what not.




What bothers you about these stories? And if it bothers you, why do you still watch TV?
But yeah, TV stations are just doing their jobs and finding stories that are most wanted by their audience, because this is how they get payed.
If people want to find out murders, then they look for this particular kind of information and give it to the public. Also, news are not only about murders, but also about politics, arts, scientific discoveries, people stories, etc.

Quote:

What impact do you think it would have on us if we just didnt know about what happens?




We don't know what happens. Most of this daily Earth's stories, most of what happens to people, the true reason behind some people's claims... we don't know almost anything.



Say our reality(american) as we know it has been created by our government. Anything that does happen inside said reality wouldnt be "real" it would be false as the reality is false. I dont watch a shitload of pointless tv.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227110 - 04/24/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, but nobody's reality is created by any government, so why go any further with a false thought?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10227123 - 04/24/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

We are the govt, and the country, and society, and the culture, and all the things people hate about humanity.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10227407 - 04/24/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yeah, but nobody's reality is created by any government, so why go any further with a false thought?



how is it false? The american way of life is was created by our government, if it were by the people things would be a lot different. I cant say better, but different.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227475 - 04/24/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Are you nuts. People voted all these fools into office. People always get the govt. they deserve. If you vote or pay any taxes or follow any laws you don't believe in, you're part of the problem


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10227505 - 04/24/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

yeah im nuts. i dont vote presidential. So you honestly think we deserve the government we have right now? if so what did we do to deserve it? oh and when i think of it i cant say that i follow laws i dont believe serve good purpose.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227539 - 04/24/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Gee why don't I believe you. So you walk down the street smoking your bong and share all your drugs openly in the street. You don't pay war taxes and you never vote in any elections.

What did we do? We did exactly what we continue to do. Live, buy, consume, die, and never pause to think our way of life is paid for by war and death.

And most all the fools of the 70s now vote for obama or bush and fail at a  mortgage for a bigger house then they could ever need.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10227556 - 04/24/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I smoke blunts in the street, don't vote, and have never filed a tax return. What about people like me? Do we deserve this government? :pressure:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10227580 - 04/24/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Well by everyone I mean the vast majority.

You might possibly slip through the cracks. But you're stuck with all this shit none the less. However I doubt you are as clean as you think you are. I mean how old are you, 20?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10227601 - 04/24/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I am 20, but what does that have to do with my hygiene? :tongue:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10227611 - 04/24/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Gee why don't I believe you. So you walk down the street smoking your bong and share all your drugs openly in the street. You don't pay war taxes and you never vote in any elections.

What did we do? We did exactly what we continue to do. Live, buy, consume, die, and never pause to think our way of life is paid for by war and death.

And most all the fools of the 70s now vote for obama or bush and fail at a  mortgage for a bigger house then they could ever need.



why would i want to walk down the street smoking a bong? that's not very practical. But yes i do smoke weed in public. If someone is smoking a cigarette it's only fair. I dont vote, and if i do it's state, and even that's rare. I do not pay taxes.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227619 - 04/24/09 05:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Do you work? Better hope the IRS isn't on your ass...:ass:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10227638 - 04/24/09 05:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i dont believe in the irs. plus theyve got bigger fish to fry. The only tax i pay is sales tax b/c it's unavoidable. for now at least.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227656 - 04/24/09 05:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If you own a business, then you might be a tasty fish for them. :smirk:


I don't believe in the IRS either, but they fucked my dad over a while ago (he owns a small business). All I'm saying is to play it safe.  :lil8ball:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10227665 - 04/24/09 05:29 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
If you own a business, then you might be a tasty fish for them. :smirk:


I don't believe in the IRS either, but they fucked my dad over a while ago (he owns a small business). All I'm saying is to play it safe.  :lil8ball:



so i should buy an 8 ball of coke?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227677 - 04/24/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I can give you many reasons why you should, and many reasons why you shouldn't. In the end, it's up to you.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10227693 - 04/24/09 05:34 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

this may be a generalization but only losers do coke.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227695 - 04/24/09 05:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I've done it, and it wasn't too great. I'd say only losers become addicted to coke. There are stories of rich, successful people losing it all because of a coke addiction, those are the true losers.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10227796 - 04/24/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Coca leaves are where it's at.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10228668 - 04/24/09 09:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The American Dream. The dream of being born into a white protestant family from the north east with established wealth and social standing. The dream of having the wealth to achieve your goals by getting an education from a prestigious University because competition is fierce and those who have the best credentials win the game. A dream of social castes based on fitness of those who, the fittest being those born with wealth and social status, prosper and are capable to rule over the rest. Being fit and having wealth to enable you to achieve your goals and bend the law so you can achieve your dreams. A dream where education and social status takes precedence to the welfare and health of the common citizen. The fittest being those who were born fit to rule by birth, wealth and achievements. Achievements enabled by those born in circumstances able to achieve them in the first place. A dream where if you play along with the game and pay your dues, hot naked chicks are waiting for you by the dozens. A dream where equality is only a relative term applied to the appropriation of social status. A dream where everyone has their place in society and through hard work you can rise to the top and earn enough money to live easier but you can never really ever escape the stigma of your birth caste. There always was an American dream and that dream will always live in our hearts even after the they are ripped out of our chests still beating, beating to the rhythm of the American dream which is a dream that works only if you dare to dream it.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10228763 - 04/24/09 09:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

"A dream where...you can never really ever escape the stigma of your birth caste."

What kind of dream is this?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10228791 - 04/24/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

It's the kind of dream that lured millions of poor hopeless people to a country where they were made to work 20 hours a day for a penny for a guy making tons of profit off their cheap labor.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10228806 - 04/24/09 09:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I can't believe how fucked up some rich people can be. :nonono:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10230347 - 04/25/09 08:49 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Quetzalcohuatl said:
The American Dream. The dream of being born into a white protestant family from the north east with established wealth and social standing. The dream of having the wealth to achieve your goals by getting an education from a prestigious University because competition is fierce and those who have the best credentials win the game. A dream of social castes based on fitness of those who, the fittest being those born with wealth and social status, prosper and are capable to rule over the rest. Being fit and having wealth to enable you to achieve your goals and bend the law so you can achieve your dreams. A dream where education and social status takes precedence to the welfare and health of the common citizen. The fittest being those who were born fit to rule by birth, wealth and achievements. Achievements enabled by those born in circumstances able to achieve them in the first place. A dream where if you play along with the game and pay your dues, hot naked chicks are waiting for you by the dozens. A dream where equality is only a relative term applied to the appropriation of social status. A dream where everyone has their place in society and through hard work you can rise to the top and earn enough money to live easier but you can never really ever escape the stigma of your birth caste. There always was an American dream and that dream will always live in our hearts even after the they are ripped out of our chests still beating, beating to the rhythm of the American dream which is a dream that works only if you dare to dream it.



That's exactly what my idea of the american dream was until i came i here. Everyone ive discussed this with outside of the shroomery had the same idea of the dream.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10231302 - 04/25/09 01:38 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
Quote:

Quetzalcohuatl said:
The American Dream. The dream of being born into a white protestant family from the north east with established wealth and social standing. The dream of having the wealth to achieve your goals by getting an education from a prestigious University because competition is fierce and those who have the best credentials win the game. A dream of social castes based on fitness of those who, the fittest being those born with wealth and social status, prosper and are capable to rule over the rest. Being fit and having wealth to enable you to achieve your goals and bend the law so you can achieve your dreams. A dream where education and social status takes precedence to the welfare and health of the common citizen. The fittest being those who were born fit to rule by birth, wealth and achievements. Achievements enabled by those born in circumstances able to achieve them in the first place. A dream where if you play along with the game and pay your dues, hot naked chicks are waiting for you by the dozens. A dream where equality is only a relative term applied to the appropriation of social status. A dream where everyone has their place in society and through hard work you can rise to the top and earn enough money to live easier but you can never really ever escape the stigma of your birth caste. There always was an American dream and that dream will always live in our hearts even after the they are ripped out of our chests still beating, beating to the rhythm of the American dream which is a dream that works only if you dare to dream it.



That's exactly what my idea of the american dream was until i came i here. Everyone ive discussed this with outside of the shroomery had the same idea of the dream.






:confused:


So you thought the american dream was some terrible caste system that was obviously unjust... and this was what motivated people to move to the country and speak fondly of their plans for the future?



What are you talking about?  Every thing I've ever read that mentioned the american dream has referred to it in positive connotations.


Are you just being iconoclastic for its own sake or do you really read/watch/whatever things taht refer to the american dream as some oppresive thing?

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: johnm214]
    #10231781 - 04/25/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The idea of the dream is sounds great, but in actuality youre just chasing after things that dont matter until you die. It's presented in such a way that it seems fantastic, im sure in other countries america seems like disneyland, until you get here and live for a few years. Im talking about the american dream as it's been advertised to man, not the ideal situation for americans to live in. That will never happen.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10232013 - 04/25/09 04:20 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I am 20, but what does that have to do with my hygiene? :tongue:





I means you have a long time to live before you can claim you have rejected the matrix. Hell you might still live at your parents home for all I know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10232034 - 04/25/09 04:24 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Gee why don't I believe you. So you walk down the street smoking your bong and share all your drugs openly in the street. You don't pay war taxes and you never vote in any elections.

What did we do? We did exactly what we continue to do. Live, buy, consume, die, and never pause to think our way of life is paid for by war and death.

And most all the fools of the 70s now vote for obama or bush and fail at a  mortgage for a bigger house then they could ever need.



why would i want to walk down the street smoking a bong? that's not very practical. But yes i do smoke weed in public. If someone is smoking a cigarette it's only fair. I dont vote, and if i do it's state, and even that's rare. I do not pay taxes.





So if you saw a cop coming you would smoke weed in front of him? If you don't pay taxes how do you support yourself? Do you use currency? That supports the system. If you vote at all you support the system. No matter how much you claim to be beyond it all you make use of much that this culture has to offer.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10232084 - 04/25/09 04:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I am 20, but what does that have to do with my hygiene? :tongue:





I means you have a long time to live before you can claim you have rejected the matrix. Hell you might still live at your parents home for all I know.



I don't live with my parents, but they are still financially supporting me. Have you ever met anyone who successfully rejected the matrix?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10232095 - 04/25/09 04:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So your claim of not paying taxes was because you are living off your parents taxes.:lol:

No we are stuck in the matrix for life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10232106 - 04/25/09 04:40 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'm going to find a way to escape, just watch! :seeya:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Poid]
    #10232133 - 04/25/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

You can start by posting at the Shroomery.:crazy2:

Every young psychedelic 20 year old thinks they gonna escape. Then at thirty the start thinking it makes sense to vote Republican.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10232171 - 04/25/09 04:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

It's all part of the machine's operation, I am merely a program. :badcomputer:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10232398 - 04/25/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Jack Albertson said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Gee why don't I believe you. So you walk down the street smoking your bong and share all your drugs openly in the street. You don't pay war taxes and you never vote in any elections.

What did we do? We did exactly what we continue to do. Live, buy, consume, die, and never pause to think our way of life is paid for by war and death.

And most all the fools of the 70s now vote for obama or bush and fail at a  mortgage for a bigger house then they could ever need.



why would i want to walk down the street smoking a bong? that's not very practical. But yes i do smoke weed in public. If someone is smoking a cigarette it's only fair. I dont vote, and if i do it's state, and even that's rare. I do not pay taxes.





So if you saw a cop coming you would smoke weed in front of him? If you don't pay taxes how do you support yourself? Do you use currency? That supports the system. If you vote at all you support the system. No matter how much you claim to be beyond it all you make use of much that this culture has to offer.



Why should i be afraid of cops? It's nearly impossible to live in this country without being part of the problem, but it's about balance. You do as much as you can to change things, yet do what you must to survive. Im working towards 100% self sufficiency, so i gotta ween myself off of uncle sams lumpy hairy tit one suckle at a time.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Icelander]
    #10232402 - 04/25/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You can start by posting at the Shroomery.:crazy2:

Every young psychedelic 20 year old thinks they gonna escape. Then at thirty the start thinking it makes sense to vote Republican.:monkeydance:



what about when there isnt anything to escape from. then what?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The American Dream Doesnt Exist [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #10232408 - 04/25/09 05:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Then the deed is done. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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