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 Psilomind
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 God. Jesus, and the like????? 
#10223881 - 04/24/09 12:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why does learning about your shortcomings or wrongdoings have to be a bad thing? Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so negative or full of dis-belief? What proof is there that God does not exsist? Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not exsist? And why is it so important for some to say that they don't? Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it? Why is it so important for some to look for other explanations on how we all came to be?
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and resurection and the forgiveness...... and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell. And is there no hell? Is there anyone who's been there and come back to say? How do you know? And what will it take to make a beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell? Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist? Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are? To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
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mushappy
Researcher
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10223904 - 04/24/09 12:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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You are willing to believe in something because you fear the consequences of not believing. That to me is a cop out. And that is how thousands are converted each year, through fear. Its disgusting what fear can make us do but to each his own.
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Sorry to disappoint but my sig is just the word :
Marijuana
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NastyDHL
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: mushappy]
#10223912 - 04/24/09 12:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushappy said:
You are willing to believe in something because you fear the consequences of not believing. That to me is a cop out. And that is how thousands are converted each year, through fear. Its disgusting what fear can make us do but to each his own.
Everything is so uncertain, so I choose to believe in nothing and stay open minded towards all possibilities. However, I think the only reason I have any open-mindedness towards the factuality of Christianity is because I am a scared animal much of the time and that shit was programmed into my head.
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DimensionX
King of Birds
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10223913 - 04/24/09 12:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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What if a different god is true and you go to hell for believing in Jesus?
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 blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc: 
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10223931 - 04/24/09 12:52 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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...
Edited by blewmeanie (07/20/09 01:11 PM)
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Psilomind
Anti-Prohibitionist
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: mushappy]
#10223932 - 04/24/09 12:52 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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No, these are questions, and to answer you the best I can, I don't worry about the consequences because I know in my heart that I'm doing all I can as a common human being to do what is expected of me despite the fact that I screw up daily. At least if I find out that it was'nt good enough I can say I tried my best.
There is no other god or figure who has more history and scripture supporting. We have so much to learn from this that it's a life long endevour. We could never in our short lives understand fully. We have to try our best and to be "open minded" but in the right way. Idle hands are hands for the devil. Why would we want to beleive in anything else? What other God promises so much and has the conviction and Holyness that we all need? Or should want???
Besides, the rewards far exceed the consequences anyway.
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Wir sind nicht so gut, versuchen Sie besser zu allen Zeiten und um Vergebung bitten.
Edited by Psilomind (04/24/09 01:03 AM)
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10223971 - 04/24/09 01:00 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
No, these are questions, and to answer you the best I can, I don't worry about the consequences because I know in my heart that I'm doing all I can as a common human being to do what is expected of me despite the fact that I screw up daily. At least if I find out that it was'nt good enough I can say I tried my best.
Besides, the rewards far exceed the consequences anyway.
The "heart" is notoriously self serving.
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tripp23
Kratom Freak
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10223975 - 04/24/09 01:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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atheism is just satans way to draw you further from christ.
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Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!
 
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niteowl
GrandPaw
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10223983 - 04/24/09 01:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
Psilomind said:
Why does learning about your shortcomings or wrongdoings have to be a bad thing? Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so negative or full of dis-belief? What proof is there that God does not exsist? Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not exsist? And why is it so important for some to say that they don't? Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it? Why is it so important for some to look for other explanations on how we all came to be?
It's only people like you who need the possibility of punishment to treat your fellow man with compassion and respect.
Quote:
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to believe in Him and his Son, and his death and resurrection and the forgiveness...... and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell. And is there no hell? Is there anyone who's been there and come back to say? How do you know? And what will it take to make a beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell? Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist? Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are? To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
Proving that the commonly held modern day version of Christianity is a pile of garbage is incredibly simple to anyone who chooses to question the basic articles of faith, and what they are based upon.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Psilomind
Anti-Prohibitionist
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: niteowl]
#10224003 - 04/24/09 01:09 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why not an answer of your own instead of quoting? I asked a lot of questions.
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Wir sind nicht so gut, versuchen Sie besser zu allen Zeiten und um Vergebung bitten.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224007 - 04/24/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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No you didn't, you made statements disguised as questions.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224025 - 04/24/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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if u believe it that is great why is that all christians have to tell the next motherfucker in line about it? who cares if it works for u fucking right on!! ....
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Psilomind
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224031 - 04/24/09 01:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, if thats how you see it, then answer them as questions.
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Wir sind nicht so gut, versuchen Sie besser zu allen Zeiten und um Vergebung bitten.
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Psilomind
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: tripp23]
#10224071 - 04/24/09 01:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said:
atheism is just satans way to draw you further from christ.
This is so true as well. Then I have to ask why is it important for some to go this way towards atheism? To have nothing to live for except they're own self serving ideals?
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Wir sind nicht so gut, versuchen Sie besser zu allen Zeiten und um Vergebung bitten.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224077 - 04/24/09 01:31 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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i agree atheism draws u away... but so does christianity...
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Asking "What proof that god DOESNT exist" is an appeal to ignorance and plain fucking stupid.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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how so? claiming that god doesnt exist is just as fucking stupid...
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Psilomind
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How? Explain.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: mushappy]
#10224105 - 04/24/09 01:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mastamike1118 said:
if u believe it that is great why is that all christians have to tell the next motherfucker in line about it? who cares if it works for u fucking right on!! ....
For sure. Live and let live.
But...what works? Does it work for everybody? Does everyone benefit? Maybe...
Or maybe NOT
You get it.
Quote:
DimensionX said:
What if a different god is true and you go to hell for believing in Jesus?
If there really is a true "God", and it's defined by a creed, and you have knowledge of ALL religions, it becomes obvious that it's either Christ or Buddhism...
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
The "heart" is notoriously self serving.
Duh. What's new?
Quote:
mushappy said:
You are willing to believe in something because you fear the consequences of not believing. That to me is a cop out. And that is how thousands are converted each year, through fear. Its disgusting what fear can make us do but to each his own.
Or... he sees the very real and plausible possibility of such a thing as eternal life which would be attractive to such a mortal being that urns for a thing like permanence. It' hardwired. Why? Let science explain it...
Not to mention the most attractive part of such a thing as perfect unity with something that would be all knowing and loving and granting, would be the thought of a purposeful, successful, and rewarding life...
And who doesn't want that in actuality?
No one.
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learningtofly
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Quote:
Mastamike1118 said:
how so? claiming that god doesnt exist is just as fucking stupid...
 That was my point. Saying what proof is there that god doesnt exist is the same exact thing as saying what proof is there that god does exist. It is not an argument at all, because the same could be said for both sides
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
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lol my bad nigga
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
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Naw, I actually see what u mean now. Objectivity is very unruly.
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Edited by DR. PRIME (04/24/09 01:44 AM)
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Psilomind
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So then is it just as stupid to beleive in "none of the above"?
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Wir sind nicht so gut, versuchen Sie besser zu allen Zeiten und um Vergebung bitten.
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224125 - 04/24/09 01:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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believe in all of the above...lol
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224129 - 04/24/09 01:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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...
Edited by blewmeanie (07/20/09 01:10 PM)
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224133 - 04/24/09 01:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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...
Edited by blewmeanie (07/20/09 01:11 PM)
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224139 - 04/24/09 01:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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...
Edited by blewmeanie (07/20/09 01:15 PM)
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Mastamike1118
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 2,010
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224142 - 04/24/09 01:51 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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im pretty sure jesus wanted you to realize your own godhood just like st.francis of assisi and some others talked about.. the ones who were excommunicated...
edit: i dont think he wanted you to forget yourself for god... if god is already for you why would you give up yourself for god... anything, power, faith... if it was faith for nothing faith as faith it is prolly good but idk in the past when i prayed i always gave up something... talking about how bad i am forgive me of my sins... idk jesus realized how much god was in him... god when prayed to means you give yourself up for something more powerful than you as i understand it jesus was talking about how god will never give you up recognize himself in each of us... idk some bullshit talk tho
Edited by Mastamike1118 (04/24/09 01:54 AM)
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krypto2000
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224144 - 04/24/09 01:51 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well you say you want people to just 'answer you questions,' but I think we both know no one can answer them and you're just posing them to invoke thoughts on the reader. Half of them are simply unknowable, the other half, at least to me, don't apply at all. Maybe one or two at best, but I don't question the belief of God or Jesus. I entertain the idea it's possible when I'm with Christians; I can have conversation about Christianity, God, the Bible etc. Most might even think I am Christian had they not asked. Likewise when I'm with atheists I can entertain that there is no God, no Jesus, and the Bible was written by random guys for the hell of it.
Before I go further I should say I do not not belong or belong to any religion. I believe in them all, and I believe it's possible they are all wrong. That distinction to me is arbitrary. There's lessons to be learned, wisdom to be gained from everything. Things I cannot prove true I don't label as false, I just don't label.
So, I guess for me to really discuss more I need more information, as all in all your OP, to me, was fairly empty of actual content. You seem to come here defending your beliefs while no one is actively attacking them. My first thought is that you are not confident in them, for if you were you wouldn't care what others think. So why do you care if I believe or not?
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224147 - 04/24/09 01:53 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
Ok, if thats how you see it, then answer them as questions.
The point was, they arent questions.
If I say "what is the temperature outside", that is a question.
If I say "how cold is it outside", I am implying that it is cold.
Never the less, "questions" answered.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224151 - 04/24/09 01:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd say proof is better left to science. As in matter. Wouldn't you?
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224152 - 04/24/09 01:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Doesn't it make you wonder why there are so many religions all preaching similar if not the same ideals combined with the same damn story all claiming themselves as the true belief. If you want someone to prove "jesus" and "god" aren't real you need proof showing they are in the first place. What if I told you that there was a man named Hairy Balsack who lived a long time ago. He would walk from town to town convincing people to buy hair cut straight from his balls. Now as absurd as that sounds you CAN NOT prove to me that he did not exist. It is no different than trying to disprove any other misguided religion merely existing for the sake of synchronizing the thoughts and actions of the masses. 
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niteowl
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224161 - 04/24/09 01:58 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
Why does learning about your shortcomings or wrongdoings have to be a bad thing?
It isn't.
I have many faults that need to be changed.
Believing in a god isn't gonna suddenly make me a better person.
You can't pray your problems away.
You have to take control of you life and steer it in the right direction.
Quote:
Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so negative or full of dis-belief?
For the same reason people don't believe in unicorns or dragons.
Quote:
What proof is there that God does not exsist?
What proof is there that he does exist?
Mans word.
One thing I have learned is that you cant trust mans word.
Especially when it comes to trying to tell a story over a long period of time.
Quote:
Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it?
Of course not.
All societies have rules (laws)
There is no need for a god to realize that it isn't cool to kill or steal. You wouldn't want it done to you. Why do it to some one else?
Quote:
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and resurection and the forgiveness...... and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell.
I'm not gonna blindly believe something....just because some stone age book tells me it is true....without questioning it first.
You went against mans law and consumed mushrooms.
Isn't that a sin according to your bible?
Quote:
Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief?
If anyone has fallen into a trap it's the people who blindly follow stone aged beliefs out of fear of an invisible man.
I fear god about as much as I fear the tooth fairy
Quote:
Will this sort of action come to haunt us later?
No
Quote:
What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell?
What could I do that would make a god condemn you to hell?
Quote:
Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others?
If it meant they died for it should then we die also?
No
Quote:
What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist?
Because of free speech I can say pretty much any thing I want. Weather you believe it or not is up to you
Quote:
Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are?
No
The same could be said about you.
Quote:
To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
Are you saying that I can't enjoy life because I don't believe in god?
I love life and have lots to look forward to while I am here.
Quote:
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
Just live you life in the best way you see fit, without harming others, and you will be OK if there is an after life.
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Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DR. PRIME]
#10224164 - 04/24/09 02:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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...
Edited by blewmeanie (07/20/09 01:12 PM)
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DeathCompany]
#10224168 - 04/24/09 02:02 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeathCompany said:
Doesn't it make you wonder why there are so many religions all preaching similar if not the same ideals combined with the same damn story all claiming themselves as the true belief. If you want someone to prove "jesus" and "god" aren't real you need proof showing they are in the first place. What if I told you that there was a man named Hairy Balsack who lived a long time ago. He would walk from town to town convincing people to buy hair cut straight from his balls. Now as absurd as that sounds you CAN NOT prove to me that he did not exist. It is no different than trying to disprove any other misguided religion merely existing for the sake of synchronizing the thoughts and actions of the masses.
If Hairy Balsack came with an unmatched exemplification of perfect love, I probably would give him at least a little due respect.
What religions are similar? Please, I want to see everything you know on the subject.
Superficial representations of spirituality mean nothing. You're a retard if you even buy in to that sit for a second..
The masses don't know shit. If the Jesus described in the Bible truly existed, he'd puke at the sight of the modern state of things and you know it.
Fuck anyone that even compares themselves to the masses!
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Edited by DR. PRIME (04/24/09 02:03 AM)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224171 - 04/24/09 02:03 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm your Huckleberry.
>>Why does learning about your shortcomings or >>wrongdoings have to be a bad thing?
There is nothing wrong with learning about your short comings or wrong doings.
>>Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so >>negative or full of dis-belief?
It doesn't. Spirituality is a part of who we are and has been since the earliest historical record. Christianity is a current manifestation of that need or want or desire. There is nothing inherently wrong with the teachings of Jesus. Love and compassion are true virtues and the world would be a much better place if everyone held themselves to such standards.
The problems with modern-day Christianity arise in the political realm, keeping gays bigoted against and women who feel that an abortion is their best option become persecuted. Wars are justified and elections won because of groupthink mob mentality for which Christianity serves as a breeding ground. Christianity also keeps young people uneducated in the field of science with dangerous misrepresentations of where we come from.
>>What proof is there that God does not exsist?
What proof is there that the universe was not created by Jim Henson?
>>Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not >>exsist?
What proof is there that King Arthur did not exist?
>>>And why is it so important for some to say that they don't?
See the response to your second question.
>>Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever >>you want without having to be responsible to someone >>for it?
Self-accountability is the most important asset we have. It is only through examining our own behavior and thought processes that we can only hope to grow.
>>Why is it so important for some to look for other >>explanations on how we all came to be?
Human beings are a curious species. We are also conscious f our own mortality and suffering. Because of this, many seek to understand why we exist at all and part of the evaluation of that question involves an understanding of our origin.
There are many explanations. It is up to the seeker to decide which they deem most credible.
>>I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't >>want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, >>is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the >>last time on my way to hell because I refused to >>beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and >>resurection and the forgiveness...... and to think >>that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to >>escape that place we know as hell. And is there no >>hell?
This argument has been made for centuries, most notably by Luis Pascal who reasoned that it makes more sense to live as a Christian because in the end you would have gambled less and stand to gain the most in Heaven.
However, I disagree. Its simply a matter of perspective. It is my belief that you only get one life and to live that in fear of mythological consequences would be a waste of the one truly precious thing that one has, that being oneself. I want to learn as much as I can before I die and limiting myself to one perspective surely diminishes the potential richness of one fleeting existence.
>>Is there anyone who's been (dead) and come back to say >>(whether or not there is a Hell)?
No. I guess not.
>How do you know? And what will it take to make a >beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God >himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort >of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the >way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap >of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to >blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will >this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we >find out that our actions have lead others to hell? >Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception >that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they >died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul >to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God?
This is difficult to answer. Its a lot of questions but all getting to the point that by leading people away from God, we are responsible and will be held accountable. All I know is that I am extremely grateful to those who opened my eyes to what I consider the great Jesus lie. It has been extremely liberating, fruitful, and enlightening to live in a world where I answer to myself.
>What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that >God does not exsist?
Freedom of speech.
>Does that mean that there are people out there who are >so miserable with themselves that they would try and >get others to be as miserable as they are?
I am not miserable.
>To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus >and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is >that what you really want?
I do not believe in Hell.
>When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm >sure we all will find out what we should have been >doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to >late to change it.
I don't really expect to know anything after death. I will be dead.
>Peace.
Take care.
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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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krypto2000
Unknown
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224173 - 04/24/09 02:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
ScYiNs47 said:
I'd say proof is better left to science. As in matter. Wouldn't you?
The transition from 'religion' to 'science' throughout history is seamless. The science of today, is the religion of tomorrow. Breaking the two down into seemingly separate pursuits is silly at best.
"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
Ceaseless pursuit of truth is my religion.
So true.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10224175 - 04/24/09 02:05 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
ScYiNs47 said:
I'd say proof is better left to science. As in matter. Wouldn't you?
The transition from 'religion' to 'science' throughout history is seamless. The science of today, is the religion of tomorrow. Breaking the two down into seemingly separate pursuits is silly at best.
"Recognize what is in your sight, and that which is hidden from you will become plain to you . For there is nothing hidden which will not become manifest."
Ceaseless pursuit of truth is my religion.
Beautiful post.
That's why you're one of my favorite. Objective POV FTW!
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DR. PRIME]
#10224222 - 04/24/09 02:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I guess it's time for me to go off on an angry rant or two, and post a few personal dick pics to tarnish that image. 
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 1 year, 21 days
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DR. PRIME]
#10224247 - 04/24/09 02:52 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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"""""If Hairy Balsack came with an unmatched exemplification of perfect love, I probably would give him at least a little due respect.
What religions are similar? Please, I want to see everything you know on the subject.
Superficial representations of spirituality mean nothing. You're a retard if you even buy in to that sit for a second..
The masses don't know shit. If the Jesus described in the Bible truly existed, he'd puke at the sight of the modern state of things and you know it.
Fuck anyone that even compares themselves to the masses! """
Wont let me quote some reason.
For starters I want you to understand that I feel spirituality is perfectly fine. in fact I have my own beliefs that I came up with on my own from different experiences throughout my life.(Usually while tripping might I add lol) But the key words are MY OWN. I do not care if other people think they are absurd. I do not want other people to be forced into believing them. i keep them to myself unless asked which is pretty much never happens. I think people should believe whatever they want to believe as long as they were not told to do so and came up with it on their own.
Now to your questions
I find it interesting that you give credit to something being partially true if its based on someone or something that represents perfect love. If I wanted to create a colt and get people to follow me I would in essence make a belief system based on something that makes an individual believe they are doing something good, make them happy bring peace and happiness to all. After all who would want to join a religion obviously based on hatred. But that wouldn't do me any good which is why i would start distorting my stories to bend there thought process into something more suitable for my control. To the new member they will think man this is such a good thing. Once they get used to believing every piece of shit you puke out on them you start changing things around. That is pretty much what happened to christiantiy. Sure it started off with good intentions but when you have a story that can be interpreted any way possible you get the wrong people preaching bullshit which just leads to generations being born into such beliefs as hating homosexuals and pretty much anyone else who doesn't think the same as themselves.
Pretty much any mainstream religion is similar. They are all controlled by believing theres some higher power that will punish them for doing wrong or not believing all claiming to be the one true way of living. They all have prophets and share crazy stories very open to interpretation. most have been changed from the start through translations into text and from language to language all based on the thoughts of the one who interpreted it.
Of course the masses dont know shit. We are all the masses. When I say masses im referring to the majority of people in the world. Not based on anything at all. Just general population aka a target audience.
The one thing that does disgust me is how hypocritical christians are. For example obviously it is wrong to kill someone but to your average christian it would be justified if say that person happened to be muslim. In fact they are hypocritical when it comes to simpler things such as stealing. its all okay just tell our buddy jesus your sorry.
bottom line is you don't need a religion to have a common sense of moral value. Modern day religions usually do the opposite of that even though on the outside they look like they are really there for peace love and all that other bullshit. Spirituality is a good thing just remember diversity is key.
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virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DeathCompany]
#10224587 - 04/24/09 05:36 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
What proof is there that God does not exsist?
Ever been outside?
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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
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StaleShrooms
human after all
Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 2,342
Loc: Detroit
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: virus1824]
#10224599 - 04/24/09 05:41 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I dont know if god exists. Jesus never existed tho, and religion is bullshit. belief in god is bullshit. but despite being bullshit, its valuable. so many people are helped my their faith in god that it doesnt really matter if he exists
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Kick is seeing things from a special angle. Kick is momentary freedom from the claims of the aging, cautious, nagging, frightened flesh. Maybe I will find in yage what I was looking for in junk and weed and coke. Yage may be the final fix.
~William S. Burroughs
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Event
Tropical Gold
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10224629 - 04/24/09 05:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
Why does learning about your shortcomings or wrongdoings have to be a bad thing? Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so negative or full of dis-belief? What proof is there that God does not exsist? Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not exsist? And why is it so important for some to say that they don't? Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it? Why is it so important for some to look for other explanations on how we all came to be?
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and resurection and the forgiveness...... and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell. And is there no hell? Is there anyone who's been there and come back to say? How do you know? And what will it take to make a beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell? Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist? Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are? To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
No. There is no proof for either side, becuase at this point, neither can be proven. I chose to not believe in something without proof. Like the easter bunny, fairys, good carrot cake, dragons, whatever.
That's not to say that I don't find such things are possible.
But whatever, just don't impose it on me. Honestly, what is the point of this post? Just to start up a arguement? Just keep it to yourself that you're a christian, don't flaunt it, and maybe we could all get along.
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Quetzalcohuatl
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 646
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DeathCompany]
#10224654 - 04/24/09 06:09 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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omg a thread about religion on the internet this is fresh and unheard of
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druqs
ALKALOIDOHOLIC
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 8,862
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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fuck yahweh, fuck him in the fucking face.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: virus1824]
#10225044 - 04/24/09 08:45 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
virus1824 said:
Quote:
What proof is there that God does not exsist?
Ever been outside?
Yes, what is your point?
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Kanos
Enabler
Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 918
Loc: MN, USA
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10225066 - 04/24/09 08:51 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
Why does learning about your shortcomings or wrongdoings have to be a bad thing? Why does anything related to God or Jesus have to so negative or full of dis-belief? What proof is there that God does not exsist? Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not exsist? And why is it so important for some to say that they don't? Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it? Why is it so important for some to look for other explanations on how we all came to be?
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible, all that, is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and resurection and the forgiveness...... and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell. And is there no hell? Is there anyone who's been there and come back to say? How do you know? And what will it take to make a beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell? Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist? Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are? To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
If god is all knowing he will know that you are believing in him out of fear, not true belief...and your efforts will be futile.
Probably been said but its early and im lazy
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10225159 - 04/24/09 09:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have never felt the presence of God, why? I treat people like humans because I too am a human, there is no need to be a better person because you fear damnation.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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Swyfty Swyf
Shrugsy Shrugs
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 7,113
Loc: North Alabama
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: Psilomind]
#10225259 - 04/24/09 09:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilomind said:
What proof is there that God does not exsist? Furthermore, what proof is there that Jesus did not exsist? And why is it so important for some to say that they don't?
For the most part, atheists find it frivolous to believe in anything without evidence. There is no "Great Commission" to convert christians into atheists. It is christians that feel the need to convert atheists into believers of things unprovable. Without evidence, there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist. The burden of proof lies with the believer. Some atheists do not believe that Jesus existed, as a man. Others feel that there is reasonable proof.
Quote:
Does this give the ok to do whatever you like whenever you want without having to be responsible to someone for it? Why is it so important for some to look for other explanations on how we all came to be?
So you think that atheists are automatically unethical, just because we take a logical approach to science? We don't look for alternate explanations of how we came to be just because we have some beef with christians. We just find that the idea of a divine creator is not a valid idea. It leaves the question open, "who created the creator?" Evolution is just a more likely scenerio.
Quote:
I don't know about you all but I sure as hell don't want to find out that God/Jesus, the Bible all that is TRUE when it's too late and I'm facing God for the last time on my way to hell because I refused to beleive in Him and his Son, and his death and resurection and the forgiveness......
If God does exist, and he wants to punish me with torture for not believing in something when he would have then created me seek logical explanations for my surroundings, then I am glad I chose to ignore the masses who tell me to accept Jesus, just because. I think that if God does exist, which he probably doesn't, he would not hold it against me that I reject a religion that is based on blind faith, while I choose to live my life in an alternative, yet still spiritual nature, which is completely seperate from my rational mind, when it comes to science.
Quote:
and to think that all it takes is true belief and faith in Him to escape that place we know as hell. And is there no hell? Is there anyone who's been there and come back to say? How do you know?
The Bible contradicts itself about Hell's existence.
2 Thessalonians 1: 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.
Now see Psalms 139: 7 Where can I flee from Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your Presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
It seems that the Bible suggests that people's spirits will die. Why didn't they tell you that in church?
Quote:
And what will it take to make a beleiver out of you? A vision? A conversation with God himself? Problem is most all of us who want this sort of proof might be disapointed that it does'nt come the way you want it and therefore you fallen into the trap of the evil one. Does this mean that satan wants us to blaspheem God and to lead others in dis-belief? Will this sort of action come to haunt us later? What if we find out that our actions have lead others to hell? Should we be willing to pay the price for the deception that we so willingly spewed on others? If it meant they died for it should then we die also? To loose our soul to damnation? Forever being out of the presence of God? What gives anyone the right to tell someone else that God does not exsist? Does that mean that there are people out there who are so miserable with themselves that they would try and get others to be as miserable as they are? To be in a state of mind where there is no God or Jesus and all is lost, we all are going to hell etc etc, is that what you really want?
When the day/night comes that you expire and die, I'm sure we all will find out what we should have been doing/not doing...problem is, at that point it's to late to change it. Peace.
It seems as if you believe that the Bible is the only possible "Word of God," as if such a thing exists. Before 300 AD, some Christians believed that Jesus was a teacher, not God in the Flesh. It was a political session that resulted in the composition of the Bible in its present form. People who didn't accept that some of their gospels were thrown out were ex-communicated.
Have you ever studied the history behind how the Bible was compiled, or do you just assume that it is infallible, even though it has been totally manipulated by people with unjust motives?
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If you build it they will shrug.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DeathCompany]
#10227402 - 04/24/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeathCompany said:
"""""If Hairy Balsack came with an unmatched exemplification of perfect love, I probably would give him at least a little due respect.
What religions are similar? Please, I want to see everything you know on the subject.
Superficial representations of spirituality mean nothing. You're a retard if you even buy in to that sit for a second..
The masses don't know shit. If the Jesus described in the Bible truly existed, he'd puke at the sight of the modern state of things and you know it.
Fuck anyone that even compares themselves to the masses! """
Wont let me quote some reason.
For starters I want you to understand that I feel spirituality is perfectly fine. in fact I have my own beliefs that I came up with on my own from different experiences throughout my life.(Usually while tripping might I add lol) But the key words are MY OWN. I do not care if other people think they are absurd. I do not want other people to be forced into believing them. i keep them to myself unless asked which is pretty much never happens. I think people should believe whatever they want to believe as long as they were not told to do so and came up with it on their own.
Now to your questions
I find it interesting that you give credit to something being partially true if its based on someone or something that represents perfect love. If I wanted to create a colt and get people to follow me I would in essence make a belief system based on something that makes an individual believe they are doing something good, make them happy bring peace and happiness to all. After all who would want to join a religion obviously based on hatred. But that wouldn't do me any good which is why i would start distorting my stories to bend there thought process into something more suitable for my control. To the new member they will think man this is such a good thing. Once they get used to believing every piece of shit you puke out on them you start changing things around. That is pretty much what happened to christiantiy. Sure it started off with good intentions but when you have a story that can be interpreted any way possible you get the wrong people preaching bullshit which just leads to generations being born into such beliefs as hating homosexuals and pretty much anyone else who doesn't think the same as themselves.
Pretty much any mainstream religion is similar. They are all controlled by believing theres some higher power that will punish them for doing wrong or not believing all claiming to be the one true way of living. They all have prophets and share crazy stories very open to interpretation. most have been changed from the start through translations into text and from language to language all based on the thoughts of the one who interpreted it.
Of course the masses dont know shit. We are all the masses. When I say masses im referring to the majority of people in the world. Not based on anything at all. Just general population aka a target audience.
The one thing that does disgust me is how hypocritical christians are. For example obviously it is wrong to kill someone but to your average christian it would be justified if say that person happened to be muslim. In fact they are hypocritical when it comes to simpler things such as stealing. its all okay just tell our buddy jesus your sorry.
bottom line is you don't need a religion to have a common sense of moral value. Modern day religions usually do the opposite of that even though on the outside they look like they are really there for peace love and all that other bullshit. Spirituality is a good thing just remember diversity is key.
I know where exactly you're coming from. But I'm not gonna just throw the baby out with the bathwater.
These "Christians" that you talk about aren't any sort of anything enlightened, pure, or loving. They prove the possibility of a creator more correct than anything by their greedy and insecure attempt to hoard attention and maintain some perfect self image. They think acting moral to people gets them to heaven or something, but it's simply being moral that would. Those people are fucked if what they teach is true.
You're right. They made shit up as they went along for control. People bought the idea of a being that judges and sends us to hell if we're 'bad'. If there truly were an all LOVING creator, it wouldn't even be in it's capability to send anything anywhere. If anything, it would be forced to protect it's own 'holiness' from such filth as a human soul. Even a God would be bound by it's own laws of love and morality. That's why if you end up in hell one day, you sent yourself because you failed to see the simplicity of it all. The simple fact is the universe wants to progress and grow. Even if that means destruction of something else to make something better, it has no remorse. And how can you question a force that primps something like the universe? It's not like it's a man.
That being said, there comes laws to growth, especially on a puny sentient human level. We are animals. We have no right to delegate our own version of growth and prosperity. There is a standard that works, and if we don't flow with it, it's our asses only(and whoever the fuck we drag down with us).
Moving on, that's the beautiful part of the possibility of a Christ. The perfect love I spoke of is something that is bulletproof when viewed in terms of humans(hu.Light-man.Mind) starting perfect and having a 'falling out' with 'the order' of things. A Christ would be required if this God is truly who/what he says he is. It would be in his nature to gift us with an opportunity to redeem ourselves. But would put all the power in our own grasp, because it respects whatever choice we make.
So, being that this is the big issue here, if Christ never existed, the entire Old Testament holds absolutely no merit in itself. That's why the Bible is only complete with a 'new' testament.
And I'm sure if a Christ wrote it, it would be much different from what we see now. But he couldn't ever have written it. He was busy being the Christ. The sacrifice. Pure, raw, love. Egoless, selfless, servitude from someone/thing that only would deserve to be worshiped. That standard of love and inner peace exists no where else.
Of course even the transcripts had hints of political hub-bub; we all know they were written by fallible men. They can only do so much for themselves. That's why a Christ is necessary.
It's not about working to accept Christ, it's just accepting him and being grateful for the possibility to let go and have a fresh start, purged of all guilt.
Jesus said,"Those who love me do as I say."
Those "Christians" aren't doing what he says, so they don't love him. It's that simple. Don't even identify with hypocrites because that's what they want you to do.
And blewmeanie: regarding your post about hell not being a place. The first appearance of the concept of hell is when Jesus said that not accepting him leads to 'hades'. The equivalent to 'hades' in Greek is a noun for where all of Israel's trash would end up on the outskirts of the city. It's a simple metaphor. Fuck catholics and their hellfire bullshit!
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DR. PRIME]
#10228044 - 04/24/09 06:53 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
ScYiNs47 said:
So, being that this is the big issue here, if Christ never existed, the entire Old Testament holds absolutely no merit in itself. That's why the Bible is only complete with a 'new' testament.
Christians not only mistranslated the Tanakh, they rearranged the order of the books drastically. All of which is designed to falsely elude to the "new testament", and to create the impression that it is leading up to it, which in reality it is not at all. Pick up a copy for yourself sometime, and check it out.
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DR. PRIME
Mental M.D.
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 2,293
Loc: Chicago
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10228096 - 04/24/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Interesting. I shall.
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blewmeanie
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: DR. PRIME]
#10228243 - 04/24/09 07:29 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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.:.
Edited by blewmeanie (01/23/10 12:34 PM)
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AlphaFalfa
imagine
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Re: God. Jesus, and the like????? [Re: blewmeanie]
#10228457 - 04/24/09 08:07 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Faith is self proving. You need faith to keep faith. You will see any other view as a threat to the faith. Speaking about religion is pointless, when the other person is under this thought.
It would have been better to approach this situation with understanding the persons intentions and talking about belief itself. Ie. If a person says they have faith in god and nothing can shake that faith, they clearly does not agree with you, when you try to question the assumptions they base their faith on. You searching for truth. The other searching to share the truth. At this point its useless, your better off leaving the conversation.
It is best then to approach first the concern of 'belief' itself, before any further effort is put into questioning a belief system that could be based on faith, as a way to ensure that you are not having to argue an answer, when you only have questions for the religious answers your have been given.
It would be interesting to work up a method to change a person who believes, in their heart that god exists. It seems very impossible however, Lol very impossible, is like saying longer than infinity - the length doesnt matter, infinity is something that never began and at all 'lengths', this is arbritrary, because a length, begins and ends, 100 meters begins at 0 and ends at 100, whereas infinity is limitless, by definition.
I encountered a religious person that found it very difficult to question his beliefs. I gave psychological evidence that child molesters, almost always have a past where they where they themselves were molested. following this, he said "it doesnt matter, I feel it in my heart!" Interesting guy from afghanistan.
I also find it useful to ensure the religious attitude we are conversing with that they by no means have to become selfish, self-centered,homosexual during this interaction, because most automatically will jump to this conlcusion. And as we all can see, we live by majority in a society that is still predominatly religious in its cultural dispositions. Gay is unaccptable still in our culture - ever been on a bus in a small town and see how people feel towards it? Trully, in this type of interaction, we as people who would enjoy in relishing in a persons change, in the way we benefited from questioning and changing into.
I might just do this one day, most likely nice and high. Build like some sort of strategy and allow those jehovas witnesses to approach me. The problems are endless with these topics, because they are so intertwined with other aspects of human life.
I hope I didnt come off as pompous or smart, because I wouldnt bet on my head all the time. I would however bet on that the above rant/possible guidence/inpersonal belief/who wants to eat a grilled cheese? Gouda anyone?
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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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