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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221652 - 04/23/09 06:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

My side has never been in power.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 7 months, 11 days
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221655 - 04/23/09 06:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That would be fucking terrifying.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221675 - 04/23/09 06:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My side has never been in power.





Sure.  You're one of those "independents" that spend all day defending GOP policy, right?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221708 - 04/23/09 06:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I spend my time defending conservativism.  If you can, please show me when it was ever in power.


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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221715 - 04/23/09 06:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I spend my time defending conservativism.  If you can, please show me when it was ever in power.





Torture and "state secrets" are conservative principles?  Okay.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

Edited by TGRR (04/23/09 06:34 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221733 - 04/23/09 06:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

State secrets are neither liberal nor conservative, they are wise.  Torture?  What torture?  The Dems signed off on all of the policies, Mary.


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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221740 - 04/23/09 06:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
State secrets are neither liberal nor conservative, they are wise.




Okay, Comrade.

Quote:

zappaisgod said: Torture?  What torture?  The Dems signed off on all of the policies, Mary.




So prosecute them too, Susan.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221745 - 04/23/09 06:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nope.  I'd rather prosecute you for uselessness.


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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221755 - 04/23/09 06:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Nope.  I'd rather prosecute you for uselessness.




I await my imminent arrest.  Do you think I have time for one last cigar?


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221771 - 04/23/09 06:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Make it a Davidoff.


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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221781 - 04/23/09 06:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Make it a Davidoff.





I prefer cheap cigars.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10221818 - 04/23/09 06:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Of course you do.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10221881 - 04/23/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I smoke marijuana.

From America.

Fucking communists, with your cigars.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10221900 - 04/23/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Of course you do.



Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I smoke marijuana.

From America.

Fucking communists, with your cigars.




Eat a dick, capitalist gringo!

TGRR,
Like Castro, only without the power.  Or the money.  Or that amazing fucking beard.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Offlinepothead_bob
Resident Pothead
Male

Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 1,811
Loc: Your computer screen
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Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10225482 - 04/24/09 10:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

or all the pussy?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: TGRR]
    #10225706 - 04/24/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> He just declared "enemy combatents" without any chance to demonstrate that someone wasn't.

Not really an accurate statement.  The Guantanamo Bay Detainee Administrative Review Board examined every detainee to determine if they were indeed an enemy combatant or not.  The ARB found nearly 40 detainees were not enemy combatants.  I'm not claiming that the process was fair, or that it was open to the public, but there is/was a process in place.





When did that process begin?






It didn't.  I messed up the statement seuss was responding to.


Seuss is referring to the tribunals which distinguish whether someone was a combatent or not.



I meant to say I think their was never a process for finding if someone was a pow.


Hence the stupid claims in the media and zappa's assurances are worthless.



Lets say you see americans come into your country and you pick up your gun and start fighting them.  You are a pow.


There's other situations too, yet the false choice that was put to the detainees was to claim they were fighting or not rather than fighting illegally or not.


Despite cokcy assurances, I've seen nobody ever provide any information that establishes these people aren't POW's nor that we would know if they were.


Its all some big secret, and the media is just ridiculous in how they refuse to question to official proclamations of them all being not POW's.  I've never seen a report on that.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: johnm214]
    #10225790 - 04/24/09 12:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think releasing information about the specific "interrogation methods" used, is as relevant as a blanket policy of do we torture, or do we not.

These policies demonstrate, that to some degree, our definition of "torture" is subjective.  You can waterboard for 10 seconds, but not 12, or 15?  50 times is O.K. 85 is not.  Give me a break.  I'd be very curious to see the rationale for setting the "limits" on these methods (if there is any).

As such, we can just make up "new limits" or justify "new techniques" for information extraction.  Ripping out thumbnails is not allowed, but a pinky nail is fine.

Hell, i could come up with several techniques that tip-toe the line of "torture".  Thus, I don't think knowing the limits of our techniques poses much of a threat.

It just means we'll have to brainstorm some new techniques.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: badchad]
    #10225824 - 04/24/09 12:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I disagree.  It is valuable information for the enemy to have.  For instance, they now know that we will not go far enough to actually harm them.  Uncertainty is possibly the most powerful tool in the interrogator's arsenal and that has been taken away by an incompetent douche for no reason other than to polish his own knob.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10225868 - 04/24/09 12:22 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I guess my point is that the current "limits" of interrogation seem to be subjectively defined to some degree.

As such, we can just redefine them. If need be we'll need to brainstorm and expand our arsenal.

I feel the bigger issue is our blanket policy: Do we, or do we not use pain to extract info.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Released CIA Memos : Some Suspects Waterboarded Hundreds of Times [Re: badchad]
    #10225934 - 04/24/09 12:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Somewhat.  And fear.  Now most of the fear has been taken away.  Because of Obama's knob polishing.


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