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OfflinePeace_Patrol
Rambling hippie
Registered: 04/22/02
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No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why
    #1019984 - 11/04/02 04:10 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all,
I have read a number of (apparently) scientific research findings which clearly stated that psilocin / psilocybin were NOT found in detectable quantities in mycelium before primordia had formed. I believe these were studies on Psilocybe Cubensis. It is in my understanding that once some mycelium has begun to pin, and from thereon after (through the next flushes, etc, until it dies) it will contain psilocin and psilocybin.
I was around at a friends house today and he has a pint jar of wheat which was innoculated 21/10 with Golden Teacher spores. It was fully colonised by 30/10.
There was some very nice strands of pure white rhizomorphic growth, and no signs of invitro pinning or anything of the likes of that. Anyway, while I was there he shook up the jar to break up the grains. About five minutes later I looked at the jar and low and behold, much of the mycelium had turned BLUE .
Isn't this a direct result of oxidation of psilocin? The blue was definatley not contam, the jar was totally white prior to shaking and the blue was that classic cubensis bluing colour. The jar was not opened at all.
So what is going on here? Did my friend just happen to get a lucky multispore mating of possibly a damn potent GT strain, or does psilocin / psilocybin occur before the first flush too?
Sorry this is so long, I have a habit of rambling on.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1020002 - 11/04/02 04:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

AS I understand it, there is a "detectable" degree of psilocin / psilocybin in Myc.

Not realy anything to shout about. Just enough to get you "busted", should some agressive prosecutor decide to push the issue.

I have shaken one hell of a lot of grain and/or seed jars & never seen one "blue" out --yet. Are you sure is was not the haze from a bong hit #9 that tinted the air? J/K, LOL :smile:.

6T  :tongue: 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 1,959
Loc: Random Field
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1020006 - 11/04/02 04:33 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

or does psilocin / psilocybin occur before the first flush too?



Yes, this is why it is illegal to send live psychoactive fungi cultures in the US and various other areas.  This said, the ammounts found in the mycelium isnt nearly as much as in the fruits.  I do believe the potency INCREASES as more flushes occur, cant confirm this though, as i dont munch mycelium  :grin:

EDIT:
If you ever work with cakes, if u grab a cake, your fingerprints will be left in blue where you grabbed it  :shocked:


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_______________________________________
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Edited by Cow Shit Collector (11/04/02 04:35 AM)


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OfflinePeace_Patrol
Rambling hippie
Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 350
Loc: Electric Neverending
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1020012 - 11/04/02 04:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks guys
I have never seen this bluing reaction in pre-first flush substrate either. But these grains definatley went blue - like real blue! There is still white mycelium in there as well, but most of the parts of the grains that obviously get knocked around when shaking (like at the tips of each grain) they are really heavily bruised!
Hopefully this is indicative of a potent strain to come!


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InvisibleCow Shit Collector
Patty Poacher

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Posts: 1,959
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1020029 - 11/04/02 04:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

dibs on a print! =) "heavy" blueing isnt normal but not necissarly bad


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_______________________________________
CSC


Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

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OfflinePeace_Patrol
Rambling hippie
Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 350
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Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Cow Shit Collector]
    #1020039 - 11/04/02 05:05 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Sure, I'll get him to make a couple come harvest time. The print that the syringe was made from was the diameter of a coffee cup, and DAMN dark (i.e. chunks of spore were flaking off the tinfoil it was so thick). Maybe this shroom is just extreme in every way? Hopefully we will soon find out, horse shit spawned today!

EDIT: 'Heavy' might have been the wrong word choice. The bruising isn't a deep blue, it is just that classic cubensis bluing that you get on (usually potent) cubes. But it definatley occured a lot, I just glanced over at the jar from a few feet away and the blueness caught my eye, it was particularly noticeable. Actually yeah come to think of it, it is pretty 'heavy' bluing, just not dark.


Edited by Peace_Patrol (11/04/02 05:12 AM)


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Offlinecomario2
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Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,352
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1021013 - 11/04/02 02:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

this bluing reaction of the myc is quite normal, nothing out of the ordinary. i don't think it indictes any extraordinary potency of the ensuing fruits. someone correc me if wrong


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comario


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Invisiblebrowho4d
The Brody Who?What?
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Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 298
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1021638 - 11/04/02 05:54 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I chunked a fucking cake because of those blue fingerprints two days ago.

I put it in moms flower pot.


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THIS PROCEDURE HAS NOT BEEN VALIDATED FOR STERILITY HOWEVER THOUGH IT HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH DUSTER.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1022107 - 11/04/02 09:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

IME psiloc(in/ybin) occurs in cubensis mycelium at all stages of growth in at leas some quantities as i have seen bruising in the mycelium of spawn jars i've had to chuck at all stages of growth.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Peace_Patrol]
    #1023611 - 11/05/02 10:14 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It depends on the type of testing they're doing. I remember a web site hosted by some state forensic lab, maybe ?Michigan? where they were not able to detect psiloc/yb/in in anything before pinhead formation on cakes [cakes, btw, that they called 'cyanescens wakefield', how's that for good science?]. This is all a function of the type of test, the type of extraction that the state institution is using. Some states will have better systems, better techs, and if the feds want a piece of the action . . .all bets are off; They could probably find psilocybin in an oyster culture if they really wanted to.
So in reality, if you make a habit of mailing illegal cultures you are taking a gamble. Do we know the type of test that your particular state is using? Do we know that the feds have the same system? The site that I remember reading was dated 1998 or so. . .maybe earlier. These labs upgrade their equipment regularly, likely with increased sensitivity. No question that there is detectable psiloc/yb/in in mycelial cultures, the molecules are there. Of course, the smaller the culture the less likely it will test positive.

Even if a culture does test negative, you don't want to be in the position of being investigated for such a thing.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: Suntzu]
    #1023678 - 11/05/02 11:06 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Suntzu is right on the money. 6T


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: SixTango]
    #1024773 - 11/05/02 05:06 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In some (maybe all) in order to prosecute, the state needs enough material for at least 4 tests. One for them, one for you, one for apeal, and one to spare. With pure drugs, nearly any amount of drug is enough to meet this demand. With a small culture of extremely weak mycelium, I doubt a standard slant would supply enough material to satisfy this requirement. YMMV from state to state though.

Many of the more potent species mycelium bruise blue more readily. Many cubes will do it under certain circumstances (a cake being birted for example). I've never seen it happen on a grain jar that was shaken. Even if the shit was shaken out of it.

Could be a fluke. Could be a sign of extreme potency. I'll bet on a fluke...


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: mycofile]
    #1027148 - 11/06/02 07:33 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

besides, my understanding is that bluing is not a sign of the presence of the 'magic' itself but rather certain other enzymes.


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Admin @ mycotopia.net
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OfflineSeussA
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then [Re: Hippie3]
    #1027911 - 11/06/02 01:47 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I read a paper a long time ago that showed a decomposition path for the 'magic' to a dye, indgo blue I think it was. It was a theory and unproved at the time. I would agree that bluing is not an accurate quantitative measurement, but I would guess that it is qualitative.

I have no science to back this next blurb, but I always guessed that the 'magic' does not appear until there is fruit because there is no need for it in the mycelium. My guess is that the 'magic' is produced to keep critters from eating the fruit before it has time to produce spores. The mycelium is generally not available for things to eat, being hidden under ground or in a pile of dung. The energy that goes into 'magic' production is better spent producing more mycelium until fruiting occurs.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: mycofile]
    #1027920 - 11/06/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

>>standard slant << ??

Peaple don't generaly cultivate in a standard slant.

Are you saying that if a jug of colonized liquid culture, several large colonized cakes, or a fair size colonized substrate were found. That, they could not be clinically stored, refrigerated and/or maintained long enough to be tested and/or admitted into evidence, later?

Viable colonized spawn jars and cultures certainly can be stored for years, under clinical circumstance.

6T


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Invisiblebrowho4d
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: SixTango]
    #1028035 - 11/06/02 02:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Listen guys no matter what, the blue shit rules. Shaken or Stirred


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THIS PROCEDURE HAS NOT BEEN VALIDATED FOR STERILITY HOWEVER THOUGH IT HAS BEEN SPRAYED WITH DUSTER.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then why [Re: SixTango]
    #1032772 - 11/07/02 03:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

No, all I was saying was that if one were shipping slants to share a culture with people, there likely wouldn't be anywhere near enough material in the slant to provide for the neccessary tests. Not meaning that someone could grow fruits off slants to be able to make their cultivation legal, but that if someone wanted to share slants, it would be very difficult to prove that the slant itself is illegal.

Unless of course the authorities grew the slant out. Something similar happened in this thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=News&Number=1027523&Forum=All_Forums&Words=mycofile&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1week&Main=955838&Search=true#Post1027523
The cops actually grew the shrooms to prove that the dude was growing shrooms. I think any atty that went to HS would be able to have a field day with a prosecutor increasing the amount of a controlled substance to charge the original dendant with.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlinedjneutron
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Registered: 09/04/02
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Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then [Re: mycofile]
    #1032880 - 11/07/02 04:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you guys that r saying myc is illegal r wrong...I'm trying to get the company that i use a lot to join here as a vendor or atleast do some posting as to the legality of mycelium...they send out 1/4 and 3/4 colonized jars of your choice, and they legal disclaimer is on their web site if u care to check it out... its earths tongue


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www.sporesrus.com


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: No psilocin / psilocybin before fruiting? Then [Re: djneutron]
    #1033347 - 11/07/02 07:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

No doubt, Psilocybin is a Federal DEA scedlue 1 item.

State laws vary.

They walk a fine line. One that no sane person would. Because anything which contains psilocybin may be considered a "container" of psilocybin which makes the item illegal under most State & all Federal law.

Are you stateing that at some stage, myc does not contain measureable amounts of Psilocybin?

If so? You are wrong.

Just put this one in front of a Red Neck jury.

>>Gee, it didnt have any scedule 1 substance in it, when I had it? It was just a culture, you know, the kind you grow illegal magic mushrooms from.<<

The jury would hang you.

6T





--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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