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InvisibledeCypher
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If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind?
    #10186283 - 04/17/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I claim that the living conditions and degree of organization of a person can shed some light onto their character and philosophical motivations; what level of entropy do you prefer in your surroundings?

This quote in particular caught my attention from Irvine Welsh's The Bedroom Secrets of the Master Chefs as it essentially describes my own philosophy of cleanliness:

Quote:

Skinner rose slowly, showered and dressed.  Ironically, he was a tidy, fastidious man who spent hours compulsively cleaning his flat and himself, only to completely destroy both with a regularity that to many was simply unfathomable.




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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10186479 - 04/17/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hah interesting.

Always have been a messy person myself, and yea, the idea of organization is borderline mystical to me. Cleaning my space leaves me feeling great, when I finally get to it. Having room to stretch is crucial.

Id bet this isn't nearly as profound to someone who is intuitively neat and tidy. Purity is a pretty personal concept.


--------------------
Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10186717 - 04/17/09 07:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Here the middle path is not fool's gold.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10186747 - 04/17/09 07:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I personally despise repetition.
That's the only reason why i don't bother too much.

There are many reasons why someone would obsess with cleanliness or just be a messy fuck.
If you find those out, maybe you could tell something about the person.
People do lots of things for different reasons.
Generalizations never do any good , IMO.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: jivJaN]
    #10186925 - 04/17/09 08:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Its important to remove that layer of dust building up on everything, if not just to make people happier when they are in your space.

It is important to tidy up once in a while to avoid creating habitats where food gets lost and insects inhabity

its good to organise your belongings merely because it allows you to keep track of them all

I think that if a messy desk is teh sign of a disorganised mind then a clean desk is indeed the sign of a compartmentalised mind that requires that its things are in a certain order before they spread into the mind. Ideally though, is the organised desk - where everything is at hand and nothing is in a totally arbitrary place


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10187317 - 04/17/09 09:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I claim that the living conditions and degree of organization of a person can shed some light onto their character and philosophical motivations; what level of entropy do you prefer in your surroundings?

This quote in particular caught my attention from Irvine Welsh's The Bedroom Secrets of the Master Chefs as it essentially describes my own philosophy of cleanliness:

Quote:

Skinner rose slowly, showered and dressed.  Ironically, he was a tidy, fastidious man who spent hours compulsively cleaning his flat and himself, only to completely destroy both with a regularity that to many was simply unfathomable.







I've been known to polish a particular item for hours at a time only to end up with a sticky gooey mess.

Seriously though, I believe a modicum of organization is the sign of a healthy mind.  Too much fastidiousness may be the sign of a control freak--serious mental health issues.  Conversely, too much mess may also be a sign of mental ill-health.  I co-opted Socrates phrase years ago--"The unorganized life is not worth living."

I'm not as organized as I could be, but the level of organization I do have affords me the luxury of finding most of what I have with relative ease.  I have a gigantic spore print collection that dates back to 1992.  Every print is labeled and organized; the data is on an Excel spreadsheet and typed into a Word document.  I can find any particular print within 5 minutes.  In most cases I can tell you not only the species of mushroom, but the exact date and location of the find.

My clothes, however, are dumped in a pile if the hamper is full.


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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10187517 - 04/17/09 10:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I mostly clean for aesthetic purposes and ease of movement/functionality of my space


I'm incredibly messy in the sense that I use a thousand random small things in my room through out the day and don't put them back when I'm done with them, never really "finishing" things, and rather finding new interests once I've been satisfied by what I was doing in the first place.

I let this go for a couple days and eventually get sick of it and put it all back where it belongs, and when I do that I try to do it in the way that looks, basically, the coolest that it can at the time.

Don't know what it says about me exactly, I suppose that I am fickle and easily distracted, and really into aesthetically pleasing surroundings...


As far as personal hygiene, I only keep up with it for health reasons and so as not to offend others. Otherwise I couldn't give a fuck less.
oh, and because I'm really into looking good
which can involve looking like a complete mess, if arrange properly.
I was always the "throw your hair around for an hour so it looks like a mess even though you spent for ever making it look that way" kind of guy.
I suppose I learned that from Vinny Barbarino :mad: but if this was IRL I may or may not admit that.


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The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong :bonghit2:

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OfflineMJF
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10187800 - 04/17/09 11:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I claim that the living conditions and degree of organization of a person can shed some light onto their character and philosophical motivations; what level of entropy do you prefer in your surroundings?

This quote in particular caught my attention from Irvine Welsh's The Bedroom Secrets of the Master Chefs as it essentially describes my own philosophy of cleanliness:

Quote:

Skinner rose slowly, showered and dressed.  Ironically, he was a tidy, fastidious man who spent hours compulsively cleaning his flat and himself, only to completely destroy both with a regularity that to many was simply unfathomable.







is that B.F. Skinner?

If so...I have always liked that guy, and I am the same way about my room and hygeine.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: MJF]
    #10188155 - 04/18/09 03:08 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:lol:, alas the Skinner in question is fictional and not the behaviorist.  Awesome guy, though.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10188465 - 04/18/09 06:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The first thing i do when i get into work is clean the desk from all the crap that my coworkers leave on it

I ALWAYS clean my room all over before a trip, especially the bathroom, i hate tripping then going into a dirty bathroom

Some people are just messy fuckers, i don't get how they do it, im not one for organizing everything, i enjoy spontanious life way more then planning things, but i do like my home to be clean, more of a feng shui type vibe then organization or properness

:peace:


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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10188741 - 04/18/09 09:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I claim that the living conditions and degree of organization of a person can shed some light onto their character and philosophical motivations; what level of entropy do you prefer in your surroundings?




I used to live in this old house all by my lonesome.  My only companions were the bugs.  I'd let the spiders keep their webs and I'd watch them live and multiply.  If any insects got into the house, then they eventually wound up in one of these webs.  The kitchen was kept clean of food debris so as to keep out ants, etc.  At the time I was heavily influenced by Buddhist thought and I didn't like killing the bugs just because of my cultural programming.  I felt that I could achieve the same ends by letting the spiders do what spiders do.  Once a month I'd wipe out all the webs that'd accumulate from the ones that had moved.  I think all of the webs weirded out visiting relatives.  I think they thought it was abnormal.

I only mop and sweep when I feel that the room needs it.  The key to keeping clean, I feel, is recognizing what needs immediate attention vs. what needs eventual attention.

Like some of the others, I tend to clean up my mess for the "feng shui" of things rather than anything.  If I'm feeling restless, I'll clean until my mind settles down.  This usually happens late at night.

Organization is not my strong suit.  Items that I deal with on a daily basis are organized with more rigidity (like my physics notebook).  Items that I deal with less often are more loosely organized.  (cleaning stuff goes somewhere under the sink)


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: youbreakyoubuy]
    #10188830 - 04/18/09 09:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Some of the tidiest people I know have very messy psyches and vice-versa.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Middleman]
    #10189644 - 04/18/09 12:12 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Some of the tidiest people I know have very messy psyches and vice-versa.




I think it depends upon how far one considers the extension of one's mind into the outside world to be.  Is your desk technically part of your psyche in the same way that a notebook you constantly carry around is a part of your memory?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineMJF
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10190551 - 04/18/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
:lol:, alas the Skinner in question is fictional and not the behaviorist.  Awesome guy, though.




lol...bummer.

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OfflineSventington
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10190595 - 04/18/09 03:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Chronic777 said:


I ALWAYS clean my room all over before a trip, especially the bathroom, i hate tripping then going into a dirty bathroom


:peace:




Same here. First time I did acid it was in a dirty house and I had a bad trip. Ever since then I make sure to clean thoroughly beforehand. So far it has worked!

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10190609 - 04/18/09 03:08 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I claim that the living conditions and degree of organization of a person can shed some light onto their character and philosophical motivations; what level of entropy do you prefer in your surroundings?

This quote in particular caught my attention from Irvine Welsh's The Bedroom Secrets of the Master Chefs as it essentially describes my own philosophy of cleanliness:

Quote:

Skinner rose slowly, showered and dressed.  Ironically, he was a tidy, fastidious man who spent hours compulsively cleaning his flat and himself, only to completely destroy both with a regularity that to many was simply unfathomable.








I used to believe this as I am a pretty neat and organized person but then I met some notable exceptions and realized I was generalizing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineLion
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Chronic7]
    #10190650 - 04/18/09 03:16 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

i enjoy spontanious life way more then planning things, but i do like my home to be clean, more of a feng shui type vibe then organization or properness

:peace:


I think it's harder to be spontaneous when you're completely disorganized.  True spontaneity, Bodhi-mind, springs from being aware of yourself and having a still mind, which will then be reflected in your surroundings having the same tranquil and easy qualities, IMO.

My room is usually very messy.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Lion]
    #10191258 - 04/18/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If i can find it i have no problem.  Most of the time my room is messy.  I see no point in having everything in "its place" when i can find it even when its not:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10191486 - 04/18/09 05:59 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

a messy desk can lead to horrible events in your everyday life. the mess is in your head, like the cleanliness. in the end there's no messy/clean desk. it's the core idea of that feng shui bs i think, it really affects the "energy" in the room, thus the people occupying it. consciously or not a mess that is left uncleaned will start growing like a mental tumor in your head, corrupting everything else.

this i say from brief experience. i was looking through a cupboard and found my old elementary school notebooks etc. i looked through them but didn't bother to put them back. the shelves were overburdened anyway and if i wanted to fit them back it would have taken a tedious amount of time. i wasn't busy, i just didn't wanna bother with it so i put it off.

then, during the next days i started to feel uncomfortable and didn't know why. i didn't wanna go sit at the table the notebooks were on. i didn't know why it bothered me. away from home i felt i didn't wanna go back because there was something pushing me away, like a negative vibe. then, on a mushroom trip it became clear what the problem was. i spent a "tedious" hour repacking them and when it was done i had "cleansed the temple."


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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10192106 - 04/18/09 08:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's your "experience" that you speak from?
You had a messy shelf once and it nearly ruined your life?

That's hilarious.

I used to live in a fucking room where every single thing I owned was covered in clothing, old food, trash, garbage packaging, mold, etcetera

I experienced none of the issues you described.





I eventually changed my habits because I started sharing my bedroom with my significant other and having two people in one room made keeping order necessary (and after, discovered that I like it for the reasons I listed in my original post)
Sorry, but what you said only applies to you.
So yeah
You should probably go back and replace all those "you"s and "your"s with "I"s and "my"s

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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: LSDXM]
    #10192122 - 04/18/09 08:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I've lived in some pretty disgusting conditions but I try to keep things clean but it doesn't bother me if they get a little funky either. I despise neat freaks I am certain anyone who is compulsively neat has a secret place where they stash their bodies at.

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OfflineLSDXM
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10192207 - 04/18/09 08:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Your avatar pulses perfectly to The Beatles - Within You, Without You.


--------------------

The number of times I edit my post is directly related to the number of times I've hit the bong :bonghit2:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: LSDXM]
    #10193659 - 04/19/09 03:37 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Krash Kharma said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's your "experience" that you speak from?
You had a messy shelf once and it nearly ruined your life?

That's hilarious.

I used to live in a fucking room where every single thing I owned was covered in clothing, old food, trash, garbage packaging, mold, etcetera

I experienced none of the issues you described.





I eventually changed my habits because I started sharing my bedroom with my significant other and having two people in one room made keeping order necessary (and after, discovered that I like it for the reasons I listed in my original post)
Sorry, but what you said only applies to you.
So yeah
You should probably go back and replace all those "you"s and "your"s with "I"s and "my"s





you didn't get it :mad:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10194062 - 04/19/09 08:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I loved all of the responses to this thread.  Much wisdom all around.

Great thread.  :thumbup:


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OfflineDeekay
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: LSDXM]
    #10198425 - 04/19/09 10:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I am most defiantly a person who values keeping my belongings neat and orderly. I don't think it is  bad thing, after tiding my desk up I feel better, my space is easier to work in, and it is to me more aesthetically pleasing. I will say there are times when mess or disorder does bother me but it is usually created by someone else, as I usually avoid making disorder at all cost, and I find it necessary to correct it. I always hold back, I never let these urges to correct things get in the way of my or anyone's day to day activity.

A positive result of this type of lifestyle is that I have 'lost' maybe 10 items in the last 6+ years, of which I can name almost all. I tend to know where things are or where they would be close to 100% of the time. It works for me, not for others. :/


--------------------
Check out my gallery :sun:

Do YOU have The Band's sheet music books? I am paying cash!

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: Deekay]
    #10200667 - 04/20/09 09:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I lose items less frequently than I lose thoughts, but that's only because I have more thoughts than items. I wonder if the ratio is the same  :kodama:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleTacticalBongRip
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Re: If a messy desk is the sign of a disorganized mind, is a clean desk the sign of an empty mind? [Re: deCypher]
    #10205685 - 04/21/09 07:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Nice thread. I know I have given this topic some thought on more than one occasion. For me, I always feel a bit better when my living space is organized and clean. I guess you could say my environment does effect or maybe reflect my state of mind, although I tend to let my living space get pretty disorganized before I start cleaning, not so much in the kitchen but in my computer room for sure.

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