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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10284906 - 05/04/09 04:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
It seems like it could happen, and i think people are getting more and more fet up with the people that are elected into office.  Do you think there is any real chance of this happening in the next 10 or 20 years?





i think there is a very real chance of it happening, in fact i will go as far at to say that it will DEFINATELY happen in the next 20 years.  people are getting sick of our government, myself included, and i feel that the government will attempt to do something that completely oversteps what most of america is willing to tolerate. whatever it may be, gun confiscation, a drastic move towards socialism, declaring martial law for a ridiculous reason and taking full advantage of it, etc.  one way or another i see the people of this country finally hitting the boiling point.  once america for the most part realizes that this whole red/blue liberal/conservative infighting is pointless, things will start to happen. because the two parties have pretty much merged underneath the show they put on for us in public, people are starting to realize this.  it just needs to happen faster.

and then the government will have 100,000,000 - 200,000,000+ newly declared guerilla fighters on their hands.  100,000,000+ armed with firearms. 


im ready for the revolution. it needs to happen, i feel that things have gone past the point of reversal now. there is too much corruption and wealth/power against us now, they have a stranglehold on our government.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10284945 - 05/04/09 04:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

According to Yuri i think we are in "normalization" stage.


Yuri was an ex-kgb that specialized in soviet propaganda and social manipulation.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32cxf_yuri-bezmenov


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10284972 - 05/04/09 04:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Man, haven't seen you round these parts in a while, welcome back :smile2:
Just noticing your sig - I recognise that quote of Hitler. He didn't really say it. I was reading about this recently:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1791/did-hitler-ban-gun-ownership


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: zouden]
    #10285120 - 05/04/09 05:17 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

haha yeah ive been avoiding the politcal forums for quite some time.  i used to get nothing but angry in here.  i figured id give it a whirl again.

:sad:  well thats depressing, i kind of liked that quote.  lol.  owell.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10302232 - 05/07/09 12:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Impossible. People are not getting fed up with their government, a revolution is not necessary. A massive die off of humans, namely in the western and euro/asian countries has to occur, its for the betterment of life as we know it.


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if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #10303125 - 05/07/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

while i will not argue the need for a drop in population,  i dont agree, and many would not agree with you on that, our government has a high level of corruption and they do what is best for themselves and their interests, they do minimal amounts to appease their constituents and maximum to appease their high wealth and high power supporters and donators.  lets face it, our government is not going to repremand and correct itself, it likes the way it is going and it doesnt plan to stop on its own.  if we do nothing, then nothing will happen. and we will continue on this path of ever expanding government and along with it ever expanding infringement on our rights, ever expanding monitoring and spying and ever expanding control.

but it is ok fellow american, rest assured that there will be thousands that will be active for every one of you that is passive.

it will happen one of these days, and it will not be pretty.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10303167 - 05/07/09 03:36 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think the situation will have to get a lot worse than it is. I mean, to have a revolution you have to have a majority of the population on side - otherwise they'll be "terrorists" and the government will be applauded for stopping them.

But it's almost impossible to get a majority of the people to agree on anything, let alone who should be running the country. At least under Bush you had, what, 70% of the people thinking he was a bad president? That's the highest ever, yet there was no revolution.

There won't be a second American revolution any time soon. I doubt there'll be one in my lifetime.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: zouden]
    #10303368 - 05/07/09 04:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
I think the situation will have to get a lot worse than it is. I mean, to have a revolution you have to have a majority of the population on side - otherwise they'll be "terrorists" and the government will be applauded for stopping them.

But it's almost impossible to get a majority of the people to agree on anything, let alone who should be running the country. At least under Bush you had, what, 70% of the people thinking he was a bad president? That's the highest ever, yet there was no revolution.

There won't be a second American revolution any time soon. I doubt there'll be one in my lifetime.





i completely agree with you, but sadly enough, i see it getting worse. much worse. our system is broken. as long as our government continues to sap the economy with high taxes, more companies are going to continue moving to other countries where it will be cheaper to operate, more people will continue to lose their jobs, more homes will forclose, businesses will go under and it will spiral completely out of control from there.

i also agree, however even if 30% of the country rises up against the government, right now youre looking at 91,217,917 "terrorists".  right now there are 1,454,515 active us troops and 848,000 reserve troops for a combined 2302515 troops(assuming they bring all troops back home and every single active and reserve soldier is willing to fight their own countrymen, which they would not.). they would be outnumbered by 88,915,402 "terrorists".  lets also assume our government called on the UN for help, there are 91,842 uniformed peacekeepers. still outnumbered by 88,823,560 "terrorists".  lets ALSO assume they call on canada and great britain(realistically these countries and the UN could not send their entire forces here anyway), canada with 80,000 active and reserve troops, great britain with 225,000 total personel, still outnumbered by 88,518,560 "terrorists".  lets also include the total police force of 836,787, which brings us to 87,681,773.

and thats just one third of the country.  realistically i think we could still have a successful revolution with just 20% at 60,811,945.


and as far as whether or not people can agree enough to stand together to do it, we shall see.  like you said, it all depends on how bad things get.  so far obama isnt looking promising.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10303435 - 05/07/09 04:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

But you'd never get anywhere near 30% active fighters. I mean, if we're generous and assume that 30% of the adult population (75% of total) supports the revolution, and that the fighting force is mostly men (say 60% of total), you get a figure more like .3 * .75 * .6 = 13.5%. And that's not considering the fact that not all of these people would have guns or be willing to leave their families, so they might just provide non-fighting support. So we'd looking at say 10% of the population, which is still a huge amount (27 million!).

They still far outnumber the government forces, though you're forgetting the police force, which is possibly much larger than the army (not sure though).

Anyway, I hate to think what would happen when 27 million untrained men, spread around the country, decide to start attacking the government. It'd be a disaster.

You know who I think would win? China.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: zouden]
    #10303475 - 05/07/09 04:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

actually the police force is close to 900K, which is close to half of the military, however you also have to take into account that the police force is probably going to be less inclined to aid in any sort of attack on any kind of sizeable revolutionary uprising.  not only would many of these people be their neighbors, friends and family, but they would also have to take their safety into account, if 10% of the population is armed and hiding in the bushes and buildings, they wouldnt be safe anywhere if they participated.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10303539 - 05/07/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's true.

That said, if you had 30% of the population in support of a revolution, you'd have much more than that in support of some change at least. If it ever got to that point, you'd see changes being made through democratic channels, ie, the unpopular government would lose elections and/or make concessions to the dissatisfied parties.

Which is, of course, a good thing. It's the reason why democracies have so few revolutions.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: zouden]
    #10303867 - 05/07/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

OR maybe its because the majority of democracies in history have come about in the last 300 years, before that there were few.

i foresee some sort of american equal to the IRA popping up one of these days too.  all i know is that something is bound to happen because people have wanted change for a while, but its hard to get change when the TWO retarded parties you have are complete polar opposites and wont budge on most issues. the corruption really doesnt help either.

i think most of all though, the people on BOTH sides of the rift are getting(for the most part) sick of the expanding government and the shrinking transparency that is vital to a thriving democracy. ALSO people are getting sick of the detachment from states rights to the centralized federal government, its hard to like your government when it completely disregards what you the people voted for and won.

honestly though unless the economy takes a bigger turn for the worst or they try to go for our guns, i doubt anything will happen.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10304366 - 05/07/09 07:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
its hard to get change when the TWO retarded parties you have are complete polar opposites and wont budge on most issues. the corruption really doesnt help either.





the two parties we are given a "choice" between really aren't all that different.  they are two sides on the same coin.  both will continue down this path of ever-expanding government with only minor superficial disagreements across the aisle.  neither group will make the drastic moves that are required to pull this nation in the right direction.

we are given the illusion of choice to make us believe that we have some sort of influence on the future.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Yrat]
    #10304385 - 05/07/09 07:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

you and i know that, but many people do not see it.  they see that they are either voting to be a babykiller or freedom of choice, or guns or no guns, or religion or science.  many people are black and white with politics. which fuels the neverending cycle of retardedness.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10304403 - 05/07/09 07:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Heh.

Many of us don't want drastic change.

For all the vitriol spewed against the American government, it has managed to provide the highest standard of living to the highest number of people of any government in all of history on the face of the Earth.

I have no desire to vote for an extremist.  Yes, Democrats and Republicans may not promote vast and sweeping changes to our form of government.

I, for one, don't think they're necessary, and apparently unlike many people, I do not have a hard time imagining things turning out worse than they are now in such a move.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineYrat
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10304415 - 05/07/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

oh but the changes are definitely necessary.  our current path is entirely unsustainable.  it can only crash and burn from here unless fundamental changes  are made to the country's infrastructure.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Yrat]
    #10304422 - 05/07/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Disagree.

The imminent collapse of the American government has been predicted endlessly since well before the nation was even established.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10304570 - 05/07/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

for now.

we will see where this country is at and headed in another 5-10 years.  if it keeps going the way its going, you may not feel the same way in a few years.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10306192 - 05/08/09 02:02 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Heh.

Many of us don't want drastic change.

For all the vitriol spewed against the American government, it has managed to provide the highest standard of living to the highest number of people of any government in all of history on the face of the Earth.

I have no desire to vote for an extremist.  Yes, Democrats and Republicans may not promote vast and sweeping changes to our form of government.

I, for one, don't think they're necessary, and apparently unlike many people, I do not have a hard time imagining things turning out worse than they are now in such a move.




I agree, but from a different angle: I think that there's many, many problems with America's political system and I don't think the country is making the most of what it has (I think other countries are doing a lot better, with less). However I don't for an instant think that armed uprising is the solution. It'd cause way more problems than it'd solve.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineYrat
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Re: Second american revolution [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10306623 - 05/08/09 05:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Disagree.

The imminent collapse of the American government has been predicted endlessly since well before the nation was even established.




i'm more focused on things like our complete and total dependence on a finite energy source, an unsustainable monetary system, completely idiotic imperialistic foreign policy (troops in 100 countries? for what??), insane government spending and debt, etc etc.  the list goes on.  by the way, the federal debt is completely unsustainable, approaching 100% of GDP and beyond.  this will cause an implosion in the dollar that is hard to imagine. 

all these things are relatively new in the history of the USA, with the exception of oil and the federal reserve, each ~100 years old, still pretty new.  all these issues seem to be headed for their peaks on similar schedules.  we will certainly have a very interesting next 10-20 years, potentially very scary.

we do not need a $1 trillion annual military budget, especially considering the money doesn't exist to spend in the first place.  imagine what $1 trillion spent on the nation's schools would do.  imagine the economic productivity that would arise from such an investment in the nation's children (read: the future).  will this ever be done?  no, it will be spent on new technologies designed for killing other human beings in far off places on the planet.  absolutely absurd. 


all things considered, i don't feel our current course can be sustained for much longer, major changes are coming, for either good or bad.

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