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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU
    #1018219 - 11/03/02 11:19 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Something said by our good friend Grav over in the "depressing revelation" thread inspiried me to make a new one...

"i find that alot of people sort of revolve their social lives around some sort of class system of money/personal appearance/etc. thats probably grown with them since grade school, and i am thankful not to be a part of. "

I'm 19 years old and this is something I too have found to be true. However, I think it is a result of genetics.

Let me explain...

During the decade of the 60's parents of the people in my generation experienced the most social turmoil this nation had seen in quite a number of years.
An itegral part of this turmoil was the fact that psychedelic substances were being sold en masse to the younger generation, and these people were having incredibly profound, beautiful, life changing (etc.) experiences that they never imagined possible.

My father told me that the first time he took LSD changed his life forever.
He got a sugar cube from one of his friends who had gotten it straight from one of Timothy Leary's group that was travelling with him because Tim was in town speaking to a group of University folks.

Recently my dad told me about this trip.  He said "Once every molecule, every atom of "me" had been scattered to every end of the universe, I didn't want to be part of any system we've created here for oursleves"

When he told me this I felt a large piece of the "puzzle of who I am" fall into place.

Ever since I was a child I could never picture myself at 35 with a 9-5 job, car, house in the country, and a wife and kids.
I did not feel at home in school, no matter how large my group of friends was.
In the last few years, having discovered psychedelics, and having similar revelations to the one my dad did that night on LSD, I still can't see myself 20 years from now living out the Capitalist dream.

I'm not saying psychedelic substances do anything to actually psysically change our DNA.  I have no biology background and am not prepared to commit the time to doing the proper research, I'm merely freestying  :smirk:

My father never talked to me about tripping until very recently, yet I seem to be living out the natural progression of the realization he had on LSD.

Which brings me to the question.....

Do you think these lessons, or most basically, these FEELINGS achieved from use of psychedelics are being passed on to the children of psychonauts?
   

Edited by dee_N_ae (11/03/02 11:21 AM)

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1018223 - 11/03/02 11:24 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: ]
    #1018255 - 11/03/02 11:43 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Very interesting.....
I'm looking forward to hearing more people's thoughts.

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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1018347 - 11/03/02 12:24 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I do think so... Maybe not genetically (though it is a possibility), but if a parent has had intensely spiritual psychedelic experiences, it would most likely change the parent's way of raising their children.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Adamist]
    #1018401 - 11/03/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Good point...
My parents never forced patriotism on me or made me join the boy scouts or anything like that, they just basically let me come up with my own conclusions about the world, offering answers to questions when they could.

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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Adamist]
    #1018448 - 11/03/02 01:03 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

this is a good thread... i agree with almost everything your saying,
i started taking mushrooms a few years ago now, initially to get high, but then i realised what id stumbled across , and i too realised that my protestations about anything societal and forced on me by others ie: economics, were not ill founded, i wasnt a drifter... there was no logical reason to follow the insecurities of others and fight to be admissioned into the fold of the cattle... things had to change, and they did...
( and btw, this is diametrically opposed to my parents way of thought, i think ive taught them some things...)

but what i also found was that the more you think about this and learn, the more distanced you find yourself becoming and wanting to become from others, you have a dual self, one for your individual quest, and another for relating to others, is this the right way to do things?
i think that something important that psychedelics dont impinge on too greatly is the importance of social relations to our mental health, you cant retreat or digress into your own individual reality because the one you have to live in with the others doesnt agree with you... although its hard when such a small sample of the population is actually interested in this, and then when its suddenly 'fashionable' to be aware of your spirituality etc.... other people are important, i realise this when i go out and meet new friends, although a rare similar interest in philosophical matters seems to carry the friendship far, rather than resorting to the normal bullshit and eventual backtalking etc... its like there is a respect that is to great to be broken
but goddamit if i meet a pretty girl who in her own way is made of the material world, ill quickly forget all my other-worldly thoughts and succumb to her sultry gaze...grr is this wrong?
sometimes i find it easier to play along, its taxing to constantly think otherwise and act against your morals, its like a depression, not being happy with humans created world you have to live in... theres got to be a reason to live in this time, is it to reject the notions and calamaties of others, because at the end of the day im far from perfect myself... or is it good this way, to be in possession of a rare insight thats not available to everyman and his god, would i appreciate it if everyone changed? im not sure... god i sound like nietzsche, 'come listen to me and my great wisdom, no not all of you, only those two on the outer perimeter....'
but i digress
thoughts fellow humans?

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1018808 - 11/03/02 03:02 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I first have to say that I completely respect and admire your honesty.

but goddamit if i meet a pretty girl who in her own way is made of the material world, ill quickly forget all my other-worldly thoughts and succumb to her sultry gaze...grr is this wrong?

I don't think it is. What?... hypocrisy is a shit concept sometimes.

sometimes i find it easier to play along, its taxing to constantly think otherwise ... or is it good this way, to be in possession of a rare insight thats not available to everyman and his god,

It's an eternal internal struggle of opposing forces.
Well, eternal until you die...

would i appreciate it if everyone changed? im not sure... god i sound like nietzsche, 'come listen to me and my great wisdom, no not all of you, only those two on the outer perimeter....'

The ambiguity of these words confuses me.
You either understand Nietzsche or you've labeled him an elitist.
*witholds judgement*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1018854 - 11/03/02 03:17 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

You either understand Nietzsche or you've labeled him an elitist.

to understand nietzsche is to label him an elitist... i will quote...
bearing in mind that he is notorious for his contradictory claims, im sure there is one praising the hair on every humans head somewhere else

?The bite on which I gagged the most is not the knowledge that life requires
hostility and death and torture-crosses - but once I asked, and I was almost
choked by my question: What? Does life require even the rabble? Are poisoned
wells required, and stinking fires and soiled dreams and maggots in the bread of
life??
(from thus spoke zarathustra, a very accessible and excellent read btw, for anyone who is curious)

or here we go, heres a rare instance of humility, upon reading a letter of praise of his work from a friend... this seems to contradict the last quotation

?As I read your letter, a shudder ran through me. If you are right, then my life would not be a mistake? And least of all precisely now, when I was thinking it
most."




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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1018860 - 11/03/02 03:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

that is in my opinion btw & thanks for your opinion

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OfflineMeph
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1019012 - 11/03/02 04:31 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

My father, who used to be a hippie, has done acid many times in the 60's and 70's. However, he does not really agree with my use of mushrooms, even for subconsious explorations and the such. His argument of choice is "It's all artificial. You *think* you're enlightened, when, in fact, you're not."

But is this true? Have we all been brainwashed by the mushrooms?

My guess is that is true and false. Anyone who uses mushrooms will not necesserily be enlightened. There is work to be done. The doors of perception won't open themselves unless you turn the knob, and ingesting psychotropic mushrooms is not all you need to do that.

But then, why is my father saying that? My guess is that he never really used acid the right way. I've been on trips in which I *thought* I was enlightened, when I wasn't. True, the mushrooms can fool you. You just have to learn to let go.



--------------------
I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

Demonstration: 152.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Meph]
    #1019432 - 11/03/02 09:05 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

With all due respect to your father, most of my peers who were taking psychedelics from the late 60's through the 70's - 'sold out.' My own younger brother, a lawyer, told me straight out never to tell his wife he took acid. It was OK to ask me in the early 80's to get him a blow connection in Miami, but psychedelics? This brother sat with me in the little Capitol Theatre in Passaic, NJ, 20 feet from the Grateful Dead who were doing an acoustic set, on a beautifully mellow, perfectly-matched-to-the-concert hit of blue blotter acid. He has NO recollection of the event, yet it was the best time I ever had with him. The rejection of this memory is symbolic of his rejection of me and my values. Only six months ago we had the nastiest argument of our lives, and he admitted that he was not the least bit interested in 'self-knowledge.'

Not everyone does a 180 degree turn like Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison and even Jerry Garcia - turning from the pursuit of Light to immersion in the dark oblivion of narcotics. Lots of people turn around and lose themselves in the accepted darkness of materialism, status-seeking, and other forms of ego-enhancement. They laugh off the follies of youth, and chalk up philosophical idealism to one of those youthful follies. Maturity brings realism they say, idealism is for the youthfully naive. If you think the movie 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers' was scary, try being 49 years old and watching all of your peers and childhood friends turning into robots, alcoholics, workaholics, and other boring middle-aged nightmares.

No friend, mushrooms do not brainwash a person. As a hypnotist and hypnotherapist, I'll tell you that psychedelics help awaken a person from the cultural trance - from the so-called American-dream. My lifestyle is wonderful and free (a couple Shroomerites have been to my home), and I am still enthusiastic about Enlightenment as ever. You are quite right that psychedelics do not do it for you, but they show you the horizon. The Great Work also requires Grace, as well as effort, and remember, there just aren't many Enlightened people - of any degree - on the planet at any one time.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1019441 - 11/03/02 09:09 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

wikkid post mark

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InvisibleCosmic_Monkey
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1019478 - 11/03/02 09:24 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

10-4

Me and my brother are miles apart in the same way, but what can be done? I still love him though.

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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1019774 - 11/03/02 11:32 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

depr its your job 2 turn her on.................in both waysss


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OfflineFreezingPenguin
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1019914 - 11/04/02 01:12 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

rather than genetics i think its a matter of intelligence,....which does have some roots in genetics of course.

dumb people are easily manipulated by Commercials and imposed notions, of "cool" "Hip" "holy" and easliy conform to which ever line of force reaches them first, or what ever trend is in style taht week.

most intelligent people don't buy into this shit. I think trips only further an intelligent person intellect, and may even take a less intelligent person outta that slumpy way of thinking.

btw i think its really cool that your dad's matter was spread across infinity....they just don't make it like they used to.

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: FreezingPenguin]
    #1020263 - 11/04/02 07:01 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Great post

i should ask my mom if she was into it. im willing to bet she was.

i honestly have no idea what psychedelics really do to you. if they actually release some sort of spiritual element in your soul, letting you view the world for what it really is outside the box youve been raised in, or if they're just a chemical that totally fucks with your perception

but i know they make you a hell of alot more aware and serious about your life if you take them respectfully. and by life i mean happiness.

ive often thought about how weird it is how all the hippies molded into whatever they are now. and have questioned whether it was a natural progression they knew they were supposed to take, or if they were defeated by hopelessness and had to conform to society's lifestyle to feel validated.

i have a hunch that they abused the other side a little too much, which may have led to them thinking that it was more of a 'youth drug binge' type deal instead of looking at it seriously...

society seems to have tried to stamp in our minds that all drug use is in the same category. It doesn't matter what you take or what happens to you.. its "Drug Use" and "Drugs are bad"...
Why are they bad? Because they're illegal. Why are they illegal? Because they're bad.

but if anyone examines the substance of it all, who is gonna say tripping on psilocybin is anything like smoking crack... these drugs should be miles apart from each other but theyre all grouped together as harmful narcotics.

bullshit.

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OfflineKemist
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Grav]
    #1020286 - 11/04/02 07:12 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

LSD is pretty much just a chemical that fucks your perception. seeing is believing.

LSD lets the walls of conformity melt away. when that happens you see how much conformity is part of your life. that does go away because conformity is survival in a sense. try acting like your on LSd at work, school, family, etc etc and you'll get pretty negative results.


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Kemist]
    #1020664 - 11/04/02 10:51 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

thus we engage in spiritual warfare for personal freedom

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Grav]
    #1021299 - 11/04/02 02:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

deepr- you're wrong, but you're not an idiot.

Mark- I personally relate to your post. I have a similar relationship with my brother.

Grav- I bet most of the hippies that "sold out" were just riding the wave anyways. They conformed to nonconformity. New genres and subcultures appeal to the BBD people (Bigger Better Deal... as percieved by them). Note that I said "most".

thus we engage in spiritual warfare for personal freedom
Pretty much.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1021347 - 11/04/02 02:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

would you like to extrapolate your highness?

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1021398 - 11/04/02 02:33 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

You're only seeing one side of Nietzsche.
He rejects the notion of hypocrisy, so he floats back and forth between viewpoints. His writing style is poetic in that way. It's not so much what he says here or here, it's how he thinks overall.

A zen master's words should never be taken out of context.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinefrogsheath
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1021521 - 11/04/02 03:12 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I'm pretty sure mom never tripped yet she has the most psychedelic attitude.  She probably never even smoked pot.  I really don't know how she is like she is.  It must be something in her neurochemistry.  Of course a lot of it was being a young bourgoisee in the sixties.  Anyway, she was a good influence on me.  She always preached non-conformity.  I think it worked. :smile: 

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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1021539 - 11/04/02 03:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

true true, while others pore over the contradictions and inconsistencies, i prefer to look at his work as a coherent whole, poetic indeed

how can his work be embraced by humanity as a whole when they are living in that morbid function of togetherness in modern society? as zarathustra found, to tell society what is at fault with it is to fail, as those same members of our traditional society are the ones who keep it going through hearsay and hard work

how can the will to power coexist with an equal whole, who would we dominate? if you were so inclined, who would like to be dominated? is that equality, that the underdogs enjoy being pushed further underfoot? there is not enough room for everyone to be the Cesare Borgia

his philosophy is a bible for mankind, however the great majority are reluctant patients, and until we correct our spiritual sickness, his philosophy will remain for very few
and yes i know my view of nietzsche as an elitist isnt a terribly popular one, (how could it be amongst the learned cattle, scoff scoff) although its hardly ambiguous, how can one be in love with life, if it is lived through christian and nihilistic means anyway? (yes..the majority)

and if you are looking for nietzsche's message in how he thinks overall then your going to be possibly overlooking this very idea in the glossed over version, that can't afford to be ignored as it ties in with the essence, his disgust at the rest of the human race.. how can the overcoming of societies morals to overcome the 'herd instinct' be anything else but elitist.....?

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OfflineMurex
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1021667 - 11/04/02 04:06 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)


Great posts! I'll be givin some mushrooms to those great posters.

I can agree with these posts and/or relate to them. I think no matter what, mushrooms and LSD are spiritual substances. Afterall, we all think about the 'bigger pitcure' when we take them right? Our future, the future, God, society, people, friends, family and relationships.

After thinking deeply about these things, we get a better perspective. If the substance you took distorts your perceptions or is nurishment for your soul, it seems to have the same result amoung the people who take them, right?



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1021777 - 11/04/02 04:55 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks! I'm a 'responsible member of society,' I try not to speed on the roads, don't steal, try to be human...but life is still FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could buy a new BMW Z3 or a Mercedes Kompressor...but I'm not...and it's not any sacrifice to drive around in my garage-kept 1990 Mazda Miata with 83,000 miles. Toys are OK, but I'd rather impress my Lady by being a better lover; or answer a question here after much thought and meditation; or convince a child [s]he is NOT stupid or ugly or unlovable. Plastic people suck.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinemikey_
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1021878 - 11/04/02 05:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

This is an excellent post.

In reply to:

If you think the movie 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers' was scary, try being 49 years old and watching all of your peers and childhood friends turning into robots, alcoholics, workaholics, and other boring middle-aged nightmares.




i'm only 18 and i can see this happening with all my friends. it saddens to think that the only thing they strive for in life is a brand new car or expensive new clothes, after driving themselves into debt so they can grasp pseudo-happiness which will inevitably go and the vicious circle will start again. i suppose the old saying 'ignorance is bliss' goes hand in hand with them.


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The poison is the dose - Paracelsus
Let your food be medicine and your medicine be food - Hippocrates

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1021954 - 11/04/02 06:08 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

yo MarkostheGnostic, you triggered a small revelation in me re: the "american dream."

Its just that: A dream.

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
and its hard to stay awake when everybody else is still asleep.
Edit #1: changed "be" to "stay" in last sentence


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (11/04/02 06:28 PM)

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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: mikey_]
    #1022011 - 11/04/02 06:35 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: ]
    #1022176 - 11/04/02 07:23 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Materialism and ignorance atrophy the soul.



--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Strumpling]
    #1022379 - 11/04/02 08:24 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

There used to be a poster in psychedelic shops around 1968 that read:

"The American dream is a wet dream."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: mikey_]
    #1022410 - 11/04/02 08:33 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

I am sorry to hear that it starts so much earlier for your generation. That makes for many more years of depression and despair when people begin to figure out that 'more' is not necessarily better. It is like a diet of Twinkies. Eat all you want, whenever you want, and you'll sicken with obesity and malnutrition - you'll be bloated and starving to death at the same time - materially over-loaded and spiritually dead is the analogy here. Of course, if you're a guy who only wants the trappings to snare the gold-digger hotties, you're gonna starve for love and lose in the end anyway to the higher bidder.

Happiness is the side-effect of a meaningful life. - Victor Frankl


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1023244 - 11/05/02 03:29 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

In my psychedelic ventures I'm starting to wonder if "more" when it comes to knowledge and "truth" and understanding is at all a good thing either :wink: 


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Strumpling]
    #1023577 - 11/05/02 07:55 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Good point strumpling... i wonder that sometimes, too

sometimes i feel raped by knowledge when i ask for too much of it

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1023706 - 11/05/02 09:30 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Ahh...and with Markos' last post, this discussion is starting to come around.  :wink:

Sometimes I feel raped by knowledge too, but I always abort any babies that may be concieved.  :smirk:
Rape, after all, is un-wanted.

To those who may be offended, I apologise for the crude analogy.


All right sooo, materialistic pursuits suck.

What's next?
CEOs finally realize that all this time, money, and effort they spend on new products is a waste and halt all production of all frivolous or otherwise unnecessary products worldwide and we divert all resources into recycling, tearing down manufacturing plants, and restoring our planet?

:grin: :grin: :grin:
Damn I'm feeling optimistic today.
   

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1024714 - 11/05/02 02:50 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

and yes i know my view of nietzsche as an elitist isnt a terribly popular one,

No, it's actually quite popular.

(how could it be amongst the learned cattle, scoff scoff) although its hardly ambiguous, how can one be in love with life, if it is lived through christian and nihilistic means anyway? (yes..the majority)

Nietzsche isn't into Christianity or nihilism.

I'm going to restate what I think you're trying to ask...
How can you love life when you're always criticizing everything?

Actually, there is a simple scene in the movie Orange County that sums up how I feel about the world (yeah, the movie was pretty lame overall... whatever). It's the scene where the main character is talking with his writing idol. It's called "internal conflict". All great writers seem to have it.

Sometimes I hate the sheeple, other times I just want to hug them... it's a crazy balance for me. If you don't get the same feeling/message from Nietzsche... read it again. I'm not delusional... it's there...


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1024786 - 11/05/02 03:10 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Soon my friend, soon......

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Strumpling]
    #1024850 - 11/05/02 03:35 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

One will find that digestion, especially of hard-to-take truths, is slow and not controlled. I called it 'acid indigestion,' and for me, that sometimes meant vomiting from psychic overload. Our consciousness must expand to accomodate more information, but it has to be a permanent growth expansion, not a consciousness that is 'stretched' to capacity, and ready to burst. Tripping too frequently is a path to burn out and diminishment, not growth and development. Be more like a snake who eats a big fat rat and doesn't eat again for weeks. Dwell on the trip or there is no change, no learning, no knowledge.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1024879 - 11/05/02 03:49 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

as soon as you start calling others 'sheeple' that is placing yourself on a higher level than them >> elitism... on a continuum, you have interpreted my message of elitism as hard line, humanity is a disgrace etc..  that is not what i interpret Nietzsche as trying  to convey....
as nietzsche himself noted... a feeling or idea can have thousands of possible contours, but only one word in our inefficient language to summarise it..
but i digress ;]

"I do not wish to persuade anyone to philosophy, for it is inevitable, it is perhaps also desirable, that the philosopher should be a  rare plant."

i will let that speak for itself.. in case i ahem.. misinterpret it
but anyway trying to argue the finer points of the ramblings of a man who took every drug known to mankind 24/7 (for pain relief admittedly)  throughout his short life, is an exercise in futility..
i love his perspective anyhow.... very refreshing.. it makes me want to go out and rape and pillage and beat my hairy chest then write a song about it...
amen

ps. Nietzsche isn't into Christianity or nihilism.
obviously  :wink:
 

Edited by deepr (11/05/02 11:53 PM)

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1026453 - 11/05/02 11:56 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1026837 - 11/06/02 02:28 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Here's the problem...

It's like the difference between being confident and being a braggart.
One is good; the other is bad.

That's how I view elitism and whatnot.
Knowing you're different (for lack of a better term) is not the same as thinking you're BETTER. I feel complete compassion for every human AND I totally support equal rights... so I don't think I can properly be labeled an elitist.

It's like this:
I have two dogs... they're sisters (and mutts), literally. One knows not to jump on me, the other doesn't. One immediately sits when I ask her to sit (actually, she'll do it if I just hold out a treat... I don't even need to speak), the other needs to be told several times no matter what. One fetches, the other watches you throw {whatever} and sometimes runs over to it but never returns it.
Are you understanding me yet?

I love both dogs... but I recognize their differences. I imagine that I could take the "Goofus" of the two and send her to obedience school... but I don't really care if she does tricks or whatever (it's just something I've observed). However, you must admit that one dog has quite an advantage over the other (ignoring the fact that she does "the man's" bidding)... she gets her treats sooner, she doesn't get scolded as much (for jumping on me), etc.

Do I need to go on?


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1026902 - 11/06/02 02:52 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

nice story...
:wink:
whenever i come on here i always seem to get into an argument with someone over the meaning of a word... both parties are adamant they are right, and they are in their minds, because the meaning with what they are trying to come across with can only be described with this one word.... for all the possible ideas that can be invoked with its use
there needs to be a better communicative medium for sure

ahem.. down to business

to my knowledge nietzsche was not a proponent of equal rights...
he said somewhere that it was the 'poisonous doctrine', bred out of christianity...

ok from the cambridge online dictionary i have
elitism
noun
Elitism is organizing things for the benefit of a few people with special interests or abilities.

the few people being, the  rare flowers capable of truly understanding his work
& i think its in ecce homo, that he scribed a summary entitled 'Why I am so Clever.'




   

Edited by deepr (11/06/02 02:54 AM)

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1026937 - 11/06/02 03:07 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

When I read Ecce Homo, I laughed out loud several times... once when I read the title "Why I am so Clever". If you don't read sarcasm in that, I don't know what to tell you.

The "poisonous doctrine" thing... yep, I am familiar with it (not sure which book though, maybe Zarathustra?). I still think he was just ranting there... he really disliked Christianity. But there's something else to it...

There was this "slower" black woman that I ran into at my university last spring. She mentioned the difference between "being better" and "being greater"... it was an astute observation that I hadn't really noticed before then.

She said something like (read with a thick "suhthun" accent) "You can be greater than me at anything, but you're no better than me. It took me awhile to understand that, but it's the truth..."

She stumbled upon yet another limit to language.
It has to do with planes of equality. It's quite subtle.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1026985 - 11/06/02 03:27 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

whatever... thats like how ugly people saying that looks aren't important
:tongue:

poisonous doctrine = the antichrist
to be honest i havent read 'why i am so clever' yet, im just going on the accounts of others... the riff-raff
are you trying to lay bait with your "slower, black woman?"
thats hilarious
pity im not slow myself, you could have had a field day....
but if you did believe yourself to be better or even greater than your humble simpleton friend, you would still be an elitist...
i must retire however, last exam for my degree tommorrow, philosophy dont ya know..  :grin: 

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1027030 - 11/06/02 03:45 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

whatever... thats like how ugly people saying that looks aren't important

No... it's not. I'll have to figure out a way to explain it better.
Besides, "importance" is all a matter of what you desire.

are you trying to lay bait with your "slower, black woman?"
thats hilarious


No... I wasn't. I was only telling the truth. I though the fact that she WAS slower, yet I still respected and agreed with her ideas would give you some insight into my character.

but if you did believe yourself to be better or even greater than your humble simpleton friend, you would still be an elitist...

I'm not better than her. However (using her definitions), I am greater than her at a few things (she said math was a weak point for her... I'm pretty adept).

Good luck on the exam. I'll think of a better... er... greater analogy.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1027979 - 11/06/02 12:15 PM (21 years, 7 months ago)

thats good, its nice to see a man of your stature hasn't lost his human touch, and can still communicate with those less fortunate :wink:

you dont need to think of a more comprehensive analogy... ive had it with your gay killing christians, goofy dogs and slow black women, lets cut to the chase...

what you want to come across is clear...that every human is special, just as amazing and important as everyone else, we all share the same capacity although I believe (and i believe that nietzsche does as well, but im sure you  can   'and will' read differently) that some use this capacity to a more productive level than other human beings...

this extent doesnt differ greatly between individuals as we are all the same blank slate so to speak, we all have the human handicap and we cant transcend our limited physical form, we are bound...
  so there is the argument that we're all one and the same, and some just try to be more 'enlightened,' I think that some are   just more successful at trying to understand their environment,  i feel this is a worthy difference, but others might not.. whats the point they might say... gimme the green and the bitches
[example teased out to make a point ;] 

Edited by deepr (11/06/02 04:50 PM)

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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1051909 - 11/14/02 08:28 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

It may seem like the experiences are passing down to the children, but I believe its the personality traits you get from your parents that's really passing down. Your father is obviously more spiritualy open-minded than most, which explains the tendencies you feel. Personally, I wish my father could even admit to me about his drug use. I didn't neccessarily come from a strict family (I'm Filipino), but just the way the filipino culture is, we really don't express ourselves emotionally-at least in my household, and I don't think I have the balls to ask my father about anything concerning drugs and druguse. Someday, Maybe, when I'm a lot older.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: soochi]
    #1052130 - 11/14/02 10:32 AM (21 years, 7 months ago)

Good point.. I pretty much agree with you.

I say pretty much because in my expereince, American culture is not as emotionally expressive as you may think...at least not when it comes to love and showing compassion. And by "emotionally expressive" I mean - willing to act on those emotions, not just say them.

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