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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU
    #1018219 - 11/03/02 01:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Something said by our good friend Grav over in the "depressing revelation" thread inspiried me to make a new one...

"i find that alot of people sort of revolve their social lives around some sort of class system of money/personal appearance/etc. thats probably grown with them since grade school, and i am thankful not to be a part of. "

I'm 19 years old and this is something I too have found to be true. However, I think it is a result of genetics.

Let me explain...

During the decade of the 60's parents of the people in my generation experienced the most social turmoil this nation had seen in quite a number of years.
An itegral part of this turmoil was the fact that psychedelic substances were being sold en masse to the younger generation, and these people were having incredibly profound, beautiful, life changing (etc.) experiences that they never imagined possible.

My father told me that the first time he took LSD changed his life forever.
He got a sugar cube from one of his friends who had gotten it straight from one of Timothy Leary's group that was travelling with him because Tim was in town speaking to a group of University folks.

Recently my dad told me about this trip.  He said "Once every molecule, every atom of "me" had been scattered to every end of the universe, I didn't want to be part of any system we've created here for oursleves"

When he told me this I felt a large piece of the "puzzle of who I am" fall into place.

Ever since I was a child I could never picture myself at 35 with a 9-5 job, car, house in the country, and a wife and kids.
I did not feel at home in school, no matter how large my group of friends was.
In the last few years, having discovered psychedelics, and having similar revelations to the one my dad did that night on LSD, I still can't see myself 20 years from now living out the Capitalist dream.

I'm not saying psychedelic substances do anything to actually psysically change our DNA.  I have no biology background and am not prepared to commit the time to doing the proper research, I'm merely freestying  :smirk:

My father never talked to me about tripping until very recently, yet I seem to be living out the natural progression of the realization he had on LSD.

Which brings me to the question.....

Do you think these lessons, or most basically, these FEELINGS achieved from use of psychedelics are being passed on to the children of psychonauts?
   


Edited by dee_N_ae (11/03/02 01:21 PM)


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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1018223 - 11/03/02 01:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: ]
    #1018255 - 11/03/02 01:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Very interesting.....
I'm looking forward to hearing more people's thoughts.


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1018347 - 11/03/02 02:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I do think so... Maybe not genetically (though it is a possibility), but if a parent has had intensely spiritual psychedelic experiences, it would most likely change the parent's way of raising their children.


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Invisibledee_N_ae
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Adamist]
    #1018401 - 11/03/02 02:46 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good point...
My parents never forced patriotism on me or made me join the boy scouts or anything like that, they just basically let me come up with my own conclusions about the world, offering answers to questions when they could.


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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Adamist]
    #1018448 - 11/03/02 03:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

this is a good thread... i agree with almost everything your saying,
i started taking mushrooms a few years ago now, initially to get high, but then i realised what id stumbled across , and i too realised that my protestations about anything societal and forced on me by others ie: economics, were not ill founded, i wasnt a drifter... there was no logical reason to follow the insecurities of others and fight to be admissioned into the fold of the cattle... things had to change, and they did...
( and btw, this is diametrically opposed to my parents way of thought, i think ive taught them some things...)

but what i also found was that the more you think about this and learn, the more distanced you find yourself becoming and wanting to become from others, you have a dual self, one for your individual quest, and another for relating to others, is this the right way to do things?
i think that something important that psychedelics dont impinge on too greatly is the importance of social relations to our mental health, you cant retreat or digress into your own individual reality because the one you have to live in with the others doesnt agree with you... although its hard when such a small sample of the population is actually interested in this, and then when its suddenly 'fashionable' to be aware of your spirituality etc.... other people are important, i realise this when i go out and meet new friends, although a rare similar interest in philosophical matters seems to carry the friendship far, rather than resorting to the normal bullshit and eventual backtalking etc... its like there is a respect that is to great to be broken
but goddamit if i meet a pretty girl who in her own way is made of the material world, ill quickly forget all my other-worldly thoughts and succumb to her sultry gaze...grr is this wrong?
sometimes i find it easier to play along, its taxing to constantly think otherwise and act against your morals, its like a depression, not being happy with humans created world you have to live in... theres got to be a reason to live in this time, is it to reject the notions and calamaties of others, because at the end of the day im far from perfect myself... or is it good this way, to be in possession of a rare insight thats not available to everyman and his god, would i appreciate it if everyone changed? im not sure... god i sound like nietzsche, 'come listen to me and my great wisdom, no not all of you, only those two on the outer perimeter....'
but i digress
thoughts fellow humans?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1018808 - 11/03/02 05:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I first have to say that I completely respect and admire your honesty.

but goddamit if i meet a pretty girl who in her own way is made of the material world, ill quickly forget all my other-worldly thoughts and succumb to her sultry gaze...grr is this wrong?

I don't think it is. What?... hypocrisy is a shit concept sometimes.

sometimes i find it easier to play along, its taxing to constantly think otherwise ... or is it good this way, to be in possession of a rare insight thats not available to everyman and his god,

It's an eternal internal struggle of opposing forces.
Well, eternal until you die...

would i appreciate it if everyone changed? im not sure... god i sound like nietzsche, 'come listen to me and my great wisdom, no not all of you, only those two on the outer perimeter....'

The ambiguity of these words confuses me.
You either understand Nietzsche or you've labeled him an elitist.
*witholds judgement*


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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1018854 - 11/03/02 05:17 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You either understand Nietzsche or you've labeled him an elitist.

to understand nietzsche is to label him an elitist... i will quote...
bearing in mind that he is notorious for his contradictory claims, im sure there is one praising the hair on every humans head somewhere else

?The bite on which I gagged the most is not the knowledge that life requires
hostility and death and torture-crosses - but once I asked, and I was almost
choked by my question: What? Does life require even the rabble? Are poisoned
wells required, and stinking fires and soiled dreams and maggots in the bread of
life??
(from thus spoke zarathustra, a very accessible and excellent read btw, for anyone who is curious)

or here we go, heres a rare instance of humility, upon reading a letter of praise of his work from a friend... this seems to contradict the last quotation

?As I read your letter, a shudder ran through me. If you are right, then my life would not be a mistake? And least of all precisely now, when I was thinking it
most."





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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1018860 - 11/03/02 05:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

that is in my opinion btw & thanks for your opinion


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OfflineMeph
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1019012 - 11/03/02 06:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My father, who used to be a hippie, has done acid many times in the 60's and 70's. However, he does not really agree with my use of mushrooms, even for subconsious explorations and the such. His argument of choice is "It's all artificial. You *think* you're enlightened, when, in fact, you're not."

But is this true? Have we all been brainwashed by the mushrooms?

My guess is that is true and false. Anyone who uses mushrooms will not necesserily be enlightened. There is work to be done. The doors of perception won't open themselves unless you turn the knob, and ingesting psychotropic mushrooms is not all you need to do that.

But then, why is my father saying that? My guess is that he never really used acid the right way. I've been on trips in which I *thought* I was enlightened, when I wasn't. True, the mushrooms can fool you. You just have to learn to let go.



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Meph]
    #1019432 - 11/03/02 11:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

With all due respect to your father, most of my peers who were taking psychedelics from the late 60's through the 70's - 'sold out.' My own younger brother, a lawyer, told me straight out never to tell his wife he took acid. It was OK to ask me in the early 80's to get him a blow connection in Miami, but psychedelics? This brother sat with me in the little Capitol Theatre in Passaic, NJ, 20 feet from the Grateful Dead who were doing an acoustic set, on a beautifully mellow, perfectly-matched-to-the-concert hit of blue blotter acid. He has NO recollection of the event, yet it was the best time I ever had with him. The rejection of this memory is symbolic of his rejection of me and my values. Only six months ago we had the nastiest argument of our lives, and he admitted that he was not the least bit interested in 'self-knowledge.'

Not everyone does a 180 degree turn like Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison and even Jerry Garcia - turning from the pursuit of Light to immersion in the dark oblivion of narcotics. Lots of people turn around and lose themselves in the accepted darkness of materialism, status-seeking, and other forms of ego-enhancement. They laugh off the follies of youth, and chalk up philosophical idealism to one of those youthful follies. Maturity brings realism they say, idealism is for the youthfully naive. If you think the movie 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers' was scary, try being 49 years old and watching all of your peers and childhood friends turning into robots, alcoholics, workaholics, and other boring middle-aged nightmares.

No friend, mushrooms do not brainwash a person. As a hypnotist and hypnotherapist, I'll tell you that psychedelics help awaken a person from the cultural trance - from the so-called American-dream. My lifestyle is wonderful and free (a couple Shroomerites have been to my home), and I am still enthusiastic about Enlightenment as ever. You are quite right that psychedelics do not do it for you, but they show you the horizon. The Great Work also requires Grace, as well as effort, and remember, there just aren't many Enlightened people - of any degree - on the planet at any one time.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1019441 - 11/03/02 11:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

wikkid post mark


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OfflineCosmic_Monkey
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1019478 - 11/03/02 11:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

10-4

Me and my brother are miles apart in the same way, but what can be done? I still love him though.


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Offlinejoeshitragpicker
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: deepr]
    #1019774 - 11/04/02 01:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

depr its your job 2 turn her on.................in both waysss


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OfflineFreezingPenguin
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: dee_N_ae]
    #1019914 - 11/04/02 03:12 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

rather than genetics i think its a matter of intelligence,....which does have some roots in genetics of course.

dumb people are easily manipulated by Commercials and imposed notions, of "cool" "Hip" "holy" and easliy conform to which ever line of force reaches them first, or what ever trend is in style taht week.

most intelligent people don't buy into this shit. I think trips only further an intelligent person intellect, and may even take a less intelligent person outta that slumpy way of thinking.

btw i think its really cool that your dad's matter was spread across infinity....they just don't make it like they used to.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: FreezingPenguin]
    #1020263 - 11/04/02 09:01 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Great post

i should ask my mom if she was into it. im willing to bet she was.

i honestly have no idea what psychedelics really do to you. if they actually release some sort of spiritual element in your soul, letting you view the world for what it really is outside the box youve been raised in, or if they're just a chemical that totally fucks with your perception

but i know they make you a hell of alot more aware and serious about your life if you take them respectfully. and by life i mean happiness.

ive often thought about how weird it is how all the hippies molded into whatever they are now. and have questioned whether it was a natural progression they knew they were supposed to take, or if they were defeated by hopelessness and had to conform to society's lifestyle to feel validated.

i have a hunch that they abused the other side a little too much, which may have led to them thinking that it was more of a 'youth drug binge' type deal instead of looking at it seriously...

society seems to have tried to stamp in our minds that all drug use is in the same category. It doesn't matter what you take or what happens to you.. its "Drug Use" and "Drugs are bad"...
Why are they bad? Because they're illegal. Why are they illegal? Because they're bad.

but if anyone examines the substance of it all, who is gonna say tripping on psilocybin is anything like smoking crack... these drugs should be miles apart from each other but theyre all grouped together as harmful narcotics.

bullshit.


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OfflineKemist
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Grav]
    #1020286 - 11/04/02 09:12 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

LSD is pretty much just a chemical that fucks your perception. seeing is believing.

LSD lets the walls of conformity melt away. when that happens you see how much conformity is part of your life. that does go away because conformity is survival in a sense. try acting like your on LSd at work, school, family, etc etc and you'll get pretty negative results.


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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Kemist]
    #1020664 - 11/04/02 12:51 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

thus we engage in spiritual warfare for personal freedom


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Grav]
    #1021299 - 11/04/02 04:06 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

deepr- you're wrong, but you're not an idiot.

Mark- I personally relate to your post. I have a similar relationship with my brother.

Grav- I bet most of the hippies that "sold out" were just riding the wave anyways. They conformed to nonconformity. New genres and subcultures appeal to the BBD people (Bigger Better Deal... as percieved by them). Note that I said "most".

thus we engage in spiritual warfare for personal freedom
Pretty much.


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Offlinedeepr
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Re: Mushrooms, LSD, Your Parents, and YOU [Re: Sclorch]
    #1021347 - 11/04/02 04:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

would you like to extrapolate your highness?


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