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Offlinemegaman3
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Registered: 06/07/02
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Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
distinguishing features?
    #1015339 - 11/02/02 10:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hi there, I search all the forums for info on what exactly all psilocybes have in common, and I didn't come up with much. When a new species is discovered, for instance by mjshroomer, how can they tell whether it's a new psilocybe, a new cubensis strain, or a whole different species altogether?

Since most of the cubensis strains look and grow VERY different from one another, why aren't they all different species instead of different strains? What do B+, EQ, Cambos, Hawaiian, etc all have in common that makes them all cubensis strains instead of distinct psilocybe species? Again, they all look and grow extremely differently.

If someone could post a detailed list of what all these cubensis strains have in common, I would appreciate it. I was under the impression that the appearance of the mushroom, such as the cap shape and how the gills attach, are distinguishing features, not just spore shape and color. Why isn't psilocybe cyanescens a cubensis strain, whereas B+ and EQ etc are? And why are pan cyans not psilocybes like psilocybe cyans?

Thanks a lot.


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OfflineMeph
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Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: distinguishing features? [Re: megaman3]
    #1015731 - 11/02/02 01:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I've always wondered this, too. And, how could some psilocybe species not be active? What makes them psilocybes, then?


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I'm a bipedal carbon-based pseudo-random number generator.

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Offlinemegaman3
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Re: distinguishing features? [Re: Meph]
    #1015864 - 11/02/02 02:56 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Heheh good point Meph :-) Never thought of that one. Wouldn't eating enough of any psilocybe make one high?


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Invisiblezeta
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Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 3,972
Re: distinguishing features? [Re: megaman3]
    #1016684 - 11/02/02 10:08 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Since most of the cubensis strains look and grow VERY different from one another



This is rubbish. All strains of cubensis grow and look extremely similar, it takes a very experienced eye to tell the difference between two strains. 2 different strains grown on the same substrate look far more similar than the same strain grown on two different substates.
The difference between strains is way overrated. I could send you a cambo and tell you it was a GT and you would never know. I'm sure many of the strains in circulation today are mislabelled. I've even heard of vendors running out of one strain and sending another in it's place.


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Offlinemegaman3
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Re: distinguishing features? [Re: zeta]
    #1017851 - 11/03/02 09:34 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

All strains of cubensis grow and look extremely similar, it takes a very experienced eye to tell the difference between two strains




I must disagree. I think anyone can tell the difference between a B+ and a Matias Romero. The caps look very different and the B+ is much larger from what I've seen. South Americans have distinctive umbos too. And a mature Hawaiian is distinguishable 10 metres away for sure, the stem look very unique.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: distinguishing features? [Re: megaman3]
    #1018391 - 11/03/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

iorst off the Hawaiian strains of P. cubesnsis are from Mexican strains grown infdoors in hawaii. Psilocybe cubensis does not grow naturally in the Hawaiian Islands. Only Copelandia's and panaeolus subbalteautus and the P. cubensis strains sold by Exotica Pacifica Spora and PF and other are from in vitro grown collections of cubensis.

Here is a photograph of three Cambodian mushrooms grown in the same terrarium and on the left and right are two Orissa, Indian strains of cubeis grown in an aquarium with a fishtank heater in a gallon of water for moisture. spearated by a glass parittion separating the spawn and compost mixture. IF you notice the three camobodian shrooms are entirely different from each other in physical features.

And all Psilocybes with psilocine, psilocybine, etc have about 115 species in the genus Psilocybe. There are still over 100 or so species of Psilocybe which do not contain any psilocybine or other psychoactive chemicals. Al togethr there are more than 190 known species of psilocybian fungi. here below is the picture of the three cambodians grown in the same terrarium:

mj

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx

Click to enlarge:



mj


Edited by mjshroomer (11/03/02 02:47 PM)


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Offlineegolesss
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Registered: 10/26/00
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Re: distinguishing features? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1018916 - 11/03/02 05:46 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I can't belive no-one mentioned "MOST" psychelic mushrooms stain blue....


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Going crazy will drive you mad, but once you get there the rest is easy....All spores are not created equal!!!!!!!!!!! Sporeworks, Hawkseye, PF, they are completely viable with very strong genetics.




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Invisiblespores
haploid
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/19/99
Posts: 2,483
Loc: Washington
Re: distinguishing features? [Re: megaman3]
    #1019180 - 11/03/02 09:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Hi megaman3,

While cubensis strains do vary slightly in appearance, they all grow on the same substrates in similar conditions. Also, they all share the same microscopic characteristics and fit the general cubensis description (macroscopically).

Cap:(15-) 25-70 (-85) mm in diameter, conic to convex, becoming campanulate to gradually expanding to plain. Color Copper in center to a light golden brown. Hygrophanous in drying, remnants of a veil. and bluing in the edge of the cap when injured.
Gills:Adnate ot adnexed to seceding. At first dark gray becoming deep violet gray to dark purplish brown. Sometimes mottled with whitish edges.
Stem:(40-) 70-120 (-170) X (4-) 8-13 (-16) mm. Equal, hollow, stem whitish to a creamy white or yellow brown when faded, easily staining blue where damaged. Fibrillose below the annulus.
Spores:(12-) 13.2-15.4 (-17.6) x 7.7-9.9 (-11) x 7-8.8 microns.
Sporeprint: Chocolate to purple-brown.

Any cubensis strain on the market will fit that description (lifted from mj's site). Unless it were Psilocybe subcubensis, in which case the spore size would be different.

If one were to isolate haploid mycelia from 2 different cubensis strains and put them in the same petri, mating would occur, genes would be exchanged and clamp connections would form. Haploid mycelia from separate species wouldn't do this.

Psilocybe cyanescens and Ps. cubensis look completely different, and grow in different substrates at different temperatures. Haploid mycelia of the 2 would not mate to produce fertile mycelium. Pan cyans aren't in the genus Psilocybe because they have more in common with the genus Panaeolus. They have black spores and a different stature and texture than most psilocybes(at least the ones I have experience with), which tend to be pretty tough mushrooms. There wouldn't be any reason to place them in the genus psilocybe other than the fact they produce psiloc(yb)in. But the chemical was named for the genus, not the other way around. Just because a mushroom is a psilocybe doesn't mean it produces psiloc(yb)in, likewise the fact that it's in a different genus and produces psiloc(yb)in doesn't mean it should be put in the genus Psilocybe.

DH


Edited by DethHed (11/03/02 09:40 PM)


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Offlinemegaman3
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Registered: 06/07/02
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Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: distinguishing features? [Re: spores]
    #1019540 - 11/03/02 11:52 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks DethHed, that sorta cleared it up for me. I think I will just leave it to the experts. Big words like campanulate and adnexed and hygrophanous scare megaman3.


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