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Offlineoptions
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PF Tek - 10 Jars - Early Pinning (1st Grow) [Update+Bump]
    #10048165 - 03/26/09 06:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hi all,

After a good bit of reading up on here, I decided to go with my first grow.  Using a syringe from a Shroomery vendor, I inoculated ten BRF jars that I steam-sterilized.  The jars were placed on a closet shelf with tape removed to colonize.  Visible mycellium was observed at T+5d from inoculation. I'm now T+13d from inoculation, and seeing two different growth level groups in my jars.

Group A, approximately seven jars, appears to be experiencing rather strong growth, covering approximately 30-50% of visible jar surface.  These seem to be doing well, and are accelerating as the mycellium spots merge together so I'm not too worried about these, they should do fine.

Group B, approximately three jars, experienced the same starting germination time.  However, they appeared to grow for approximately 3-5 days, then slowed and stayed at the same position until approximately 2-3 days ago.  The mycellium spots remained approximately 0.5-1" in diameter and did not start increasing and further colonizing until 2-3 days ago.  They are colonizing as far as I can tell now, but they appear significantly behind.

My main concern is for pacing.  I expect Group B to finish full colonization behind Group A, and as this is my first grow, I'm unsure if I should wait for Group B to catch up, or fruit the jars as they reach 1week after full colonization.  Should I try to keep things in sync for better harvest timing, or is it pretty much a toss up?  I'm not too worried if the jars take longer periods of time, I'm just more looking for pacing.  I'm mostly trying to firm up my process so I have it nailed down for the future.

I did a bit of searching on uneven colonization, but there was only one recent post involving rice jars and that seemed somewhat unrelated.  Thanks for any pointers you can pass along.

[04/08/09-04/09/09 Update+Bump]

Ok, I have an update and a question.

I am now at T+26d approximately from inoculation, T+21d from first visible mycellium growth.  All of my Jars except for two in the original group B are 90-95% colonized.  All of the uncolonized spots are located on the jar bottoms.  I'm seeing clear and assumed to be water condensation on the interior of the jars, and all visible growth appears to be white.  I am assuming that these will reach full colonization in the next few days and I'll be able to fruit them a week after that.

The two remaining jars are two separate cases.

Jar #1B, is at approximately 80% colonization, and is the slowest of the original colonizers.  My concern with this jar is how it's failing to colonize, and the uncolonized spot is located on the bottom side of the jar.  The mycellium is approaching this from the sides and I assume it will approach across the bottom to colonize this spot.  However, the mycellium above it has not colonized outside the bottom edge of the one inch spots mentioned in the previous post.  It appears to have formed a solid edge at this point, which I have read in searches can indicate an uncolonizable substrate.  I'm hoping this is not the case, but I'm hoping the mycellium crosses the bottom of the jar and colonizes further.

Jar #2B is a bit more of a concern.  It's approximately 90% colonized, with the mycellium at the bottom edge of the jar and the bottom completely uncovered.  However, on the side of the jar near the top, an early pin has formed, and is pushing up into the dry vermiculite layer.  I've done a search on both 'early pinning' and 'invitro pinning' as both seemed applicable and found some conflicting info that this jar might not colonize further at this point.  I'm keeping an eye on the jar at this point, and if the pin seems to be changing color indicating an abort or possible rot I can take measures then, but I'm concerned if this cake which is not fully colonized will survive the remaining colonization time plus a week in the jar.

In order to encourage further colonization, I've flipped the jars, propping them up with some loose change to allow for air flow as a search indicated that could help with stalled colonization on the bottom.  Any possible further advice on how to handle the jars, specifically #2B?

Edited by options (04/09/09 06:20 PM)

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OfflineAlienTechKilla
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10048452 - 03/26/09 07:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hello. With every story I've read and the 2 grows I've done it seems that synchronized colonization hardly ever happens. Though you can control how much solution per jar/hole you use, there's no way to be sure how many spores per jars were injected. My two grows each rendered no visible contams but a few jars that seemed to grow little to no mycelium. A lot a factors I'm sure play into this situation but I don't really think it should be a big factor in your grow. The cakes pin and fruit quickly in a shotgun FC that has good FAE and reasonable (or even room) temp. Meaning from the birth/dunk/roll to plucking fruits is usually within 7 days or so. Keeping fully colonized jars in the jars for a few days longer doesn't effect their performance enough if at all to really worry. That's all the info I can give you on the matter.

ATK

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: AlienTechKilla]
    #10048546 - 03/26/09 07:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Uneven colonization is normal.  You can help that somewhat by shaking the syringe well before use, but even that doesn't 'cure' the problem.  Wait at least one week after full colonization to birth, then dunk and roll your cakes.  If you want to birth them all at once, wait until the slowest jar is one week past full colonization.  It won't hurt the others to wait for it.  An alternative is to birth each jar a week after it reaches full colonization.
RR


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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10051250 - 03/27/09 04:04 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

RR,

Thanks for the quick response.  I had read that it was pretty normal, so I was ok with them colonizing unevenly.  As I was planning to dunk and roll the cakes after colonization prior to fruiting, it would be convenient to do them all at the same time.  Since it won't hurt to wait, I'll go with that.  Thanks again.

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InvisibleShroominit
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10051285 - 03/27/09 04:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup: I'd wait for them all to go at once, just because I'd rather do that than keep track of days (not that I'm lazy, just have like 5 different projects at once). Hope your grows are good to you :grin:

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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: Shroominit]
    #10055246 - 03/27/09 05:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

That's partially what I was thinking, that it'd be good to have each of my projects on a different schedule.  Also, I was planning on reusing these jars after these were birthed with the other syringe that I received.

I figure I'll do a run of cakes on each to take some prints. Then start working on some larger scale grows once I'm sure my sterile technique is verified.

It's actually kind of exciting, I've had bad luck growing things in the past, "black thumb" and all that.  So all good wishes are appreciated.  It looks good so far.

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OfflineWunbadmofo
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10102296 - 04/03/09 07:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

When  injecting my jars i accidently squirted like .75 cc in one hole.  The growth at this injection site is incredible i have almost 60%colonization after 9 days. BTW its brf.  So do u think that by using sterile methods to dilute one spore syringe to 2 i can increase dosage at injection site and speed up colonization?


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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: Wunbadmofo]
    #10102353 - 04/03/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I suppose it could be possible to generate more fluid, however by extension you'd be diluting the spores.  Generally, there are a lot of them, but I think the advised method for stretching might tend towards a liquid culture approach, rather than attempting to dilute a syringe.

On the plus side, you'd also probably colonize faster, as you wouldn't be waiting for germination.

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Offlineinit
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10102411 - 04/03/09 07:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think you would gain anything by diluting a spore syringe, besides an increased potential for contaminants.

You should look into making a liquid culture, as options mentioned. Look around for a tek you like, or try this one:
A *beginner friendly* method for making Liquid Culture

LC will definitely speed up colonization.


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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: init]
    #10132083 - 04/08/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

[Edited all this posts contents directly into the first post for better visibility 04/09/09]

Edited by options (04/09/09 06:21 PM)

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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10138260 - 04/09/09 06:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Due to 24hrs with no reply, editing update into first post and bumping.

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OfflineMikeyD
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10138312 - 04/09/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Just be patient and they both should reach full colonization eventually.

I am hoping you didn't flip brf jars or your dry verm layer will be useless.Hopefully the top is colonized enough to fend off contaminants but still not a great idea.


--------------------
Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system.  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Corn sucks goats ass. -RR

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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: MikeyD]
    #10138873 - 04/09/09 08:08 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MikeyD said:
Just be patient and they both should reach full colonization eventually.

I am hoping you didn't flip brf jars or your dry verm layer will be useless.Hopefully the top is colonized enough to fend off contaminants but still not a great idea.




As noted in the second line of the first post, they are BRF jars.  The colonization was slowing, and in one case had stopped, but had covered all but the exact bottom on 9 out of ten jars.  As we are encouraged to use the search function, I searched based on this and found the most common recommended solution was to flip the jars.  There was a note by RR that when flipping to only do it once so as to not further disturb the dry vermiculite layer, no indication of it invalidating the dry vermiculite layer.  So, as noted in the third to last line, the jars were flipped.

At this point, the colonization seems to be accelerating, I'm just concerned about the jar with the pin extending down into the dry vermiculite layer, as it might disturb it and in any case I can't see the head of that one any more to see if it comes down with something.

Mostly, just looking to see if I need to be ready to write off that particular jar.

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OfflineMikeyD
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: options]
    #10139083 - 04/09/09 08:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

options said:
Quote:

MikeyD said:
Just be patient and they both should reach full colonization eventually.

I am hoping you didn't flip brf jars or your dry verm layer will be useless.Hopefully the top is colonized enough to fend off contaminants but still not a great idea.




As noted in the second line of the first post, they are BRF jars.  The colonization was slowing, and in one case had stopped, but had covered all but the exact bottom on 9 out of ten jars.  As we are encouraged to use the search function, I searched based on this and found the most common recommended solution was to flip the jars.  There was a note by RR that when flipping to only do it once so as to not further disturb the dry vermiculite layer, no indication of it invalidating the dry vermiculite layer.  So, as noted in the third to last line, the jars were flipped.

At this point, the colonization seems to be accelerating, I'm just concerned about the jar with the pin extending down into the dry vermiculite layer, as it might disturb it and in any case I can't see the head of that one any more to see if it comes down with something.

Mostly, just looking to see if I need to be ready to write off that particular jar.



It would be pretty interesting if a contam managed to slip by the (undisturbed) dry verm layer and then overtake a nearly fully colonized jar.  I think you're safe but you can't be sure until it's done.  As of now it sounds ok though.

Just be patient and try not to count your chickens before they hatch. 9 out of 10 is still pretty damn good for a first attempt.


--------------------
Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system.  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Corn sucks goats ass. -RR

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Offlineoptions
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Re: PF Tek - 10 Jars - Uneven Colonization (1st Grow) [Re: MikeyD]
    #10143742 - 04/10/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MikeyD said:
It would be pretty interesting if a contam managed to slip by the (undisturbed) dry verm layer and then overtake a nearly fully colonized jar.  I think you're safe but you can't be sure until it's done.  As of now it sounds ok though.

Just be patient and try not to count your chickens before they hatch. 9 out of 10 is still pretty damn good for a first attempt.




Yeah, I'm not too worried about contams, I was pretty strict on my sterile procedures, minus the fact that I did steam sterilization rather than PC.  Just most of the searches I found on jars forming early pins inside the jars indicated possible inability to colonize the remaining substrate, and that you had to watch out for them rotting.  As of right now, the jars are accelerating and another one has developed a rather sizable mini-mushroom that for some reason is growing horizontally.

I'm all for patience, I was just double checking when the first response to my post asked about two things that I had already answered.

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