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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 Telepathy on shrooms: part II 
#1006378 - 10/30/02 12:35 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hmm, I wonder why the telepathy enthusiasts here don't claim Randi's $1,000,000. As I see it there are only a few likely explanations:
1. They have no need or desire for the money. Not even to donate it to an orphanage or homeless shelter. (*coughs* Bullshit!).
2. They don't really believe it themselves and just want it to be true. To put it to the test and have it fail would shatter the "magic".
3. They believe it, but know it is not repeatable. Of course, non-repeatability could just mean coincidence and selective memory as I have previously pointed out.
4. They "know" without even checking it out, that Randi and his boyz will fail them no matter the result. This is highly prejudiced and lazy. ("We have NO NEED to prove it to anyone else." Yeah because you can't, so you come up with one lame excuse after another!)
Telepathy proven would be a huge landmark in human history. Seems no one here wants to have contribute to the spiritual growth of mankind in this particular arena. So much easier to simply swap campfire stories to titillate each other. *Yawn*
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (10/30/02 06:27 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1006406 - 10/30/02 12:42 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Making up for lost time I see. 
Nice thread, I was just about to start one on this myself. 
You read my mind!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: ]
#1006465 - 10/30/02 12:56 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am definitely telepathic as schlorch can attest to, but if I claimed the $1,000,000, I would have to relinquish my skeptic mantle, apologize to all believers here and my ego won't let me do that! 
Of course, with the $1,000,000, I would reserve $50K for a shroomery bash to remember. There would be loud live music, a large punch bowl full of electric kool-aid and nekked babes for all. Maybe I would even splurge for a few tiki lamps...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1007067 - 10/30/02 03:59 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1007095 - 10/30/02 04:12 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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They believe it, but know it is not repeatable. Of course, non-repeatability could just mean coincidence and selective memory as I have previously pointed out.
Yes, it could mean that. But it could also mean that the experience was just spontaneous, and we don't know how to recreate the conditions under which such an experience will definately occur.
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Smack31
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,681
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Revelation]
#1007102 - 10/30/02 04:15 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've experienced it, and what revelation says pretty much sums things up...
it just sort of happened. why or how i'm not really sure, but i did experience it.
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 Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1007185 - 10/30/02 04:53 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't believe in it either.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: ]
#1007471 - 10/30/02 06:26 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I once "touched the real" and was arrested for it, but that is another story...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Sclorch
Clyster
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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 Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1008839 - 10/31/02 01:26 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nubious (started the ToS1 thread) is conspicuously absent here... big surprise.
*crosses fingers that nubious will show up* <---because I'm a hypocrite
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Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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nubious
1up on the rest
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Sclorch]
#1009402 - 10/31/02 06:03 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry... been workin' lots lately. I just came across this thread, and of course I have a couple things to say. For starters, "If so, so what?" It's not direct communication, and like Revelation said, it's not repeatable on demand. That's the biggest dissappointment after havin' these experiences - you have NO idea when they're going to happen again. Telepathy or not, something's fucked up with shit that goes down. I'm not going to expand on this because I have a headache and I really don't feel like arguing with anyone, so I'll leave it at that.
P.S. - Revelation; let them think what they want to think. Maybe they're just not at evolved
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: nubious]
#1009713 - 10/31/02 09:34 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seriously, as I have stated, I have had "seemingly" telepathic experiences with schlorch and Mr. Mush (and others). If they are not repeatable or controllable then how can one be sure that they were psychic in nature and not just pure serendipity?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Newbie2000
Idiot:www.soby.us
Registered: 10/31/02
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1012761 - 11/01/02 09:21 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think it is possilbe there are different types of telepathy. I really don't want to be labeled a "non-beliver", but i have to express myself, right? I have been with people I have experienced "telepathy" with. Yes, it semmed we coul;d read each others minds. Yes, it was neat, and cool, and a good trippin' story. But I don't think trippin' your balls off and thinking like the guy next to you who is, you guessed it, also trippin' his balls off qualifies as telepathy. I think this type of communication needs a new name. Maybe "mushroom communication" or something. Real telepathy doesn't involve drugs, I fear. If you can stand next to me, SOBER, and put a thought in my head, then Viola! telepathy! If you ae under the influence, it's not the same.
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Cosmic_Monkey
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Newbie2000]
#1012779 - 11/01/02 09:36 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not sure I understand exactly what the difference would be??
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Cosmic_Monkey]
#1013142 - 11/01/02 11:46 AM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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When telepathy occurs it has a reason. Trying to get money for it is no reason.
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nubious
1up on the rest
Registered: 10/20/02
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Newbie2000]
#1013184 - 11/01/02 12:06 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Real telepathy doesn't involve drugs
I definately agree - but what if mushrooms amplifies it by letting you drop the outside influences preventing it? It doesn't just happen on shrooms.. there will be times when I'll be on the phone with someone and we'll both decide to play the same game.. in fact that happened yesterday. Ever thought of someone you haven't talked to in a while and they called you that same day? Same thing.
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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deepr
the dancer
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 Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: nubious]
#1013273 - 11/01/02 12:45 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Exactly...
of course telepathy would be aided by drugs... it doesnt happen in everyday life, unless something triggers it, and a psychedelic experience could be just that..
psilocybin et al. inhibits the filters of the higher order processing of the brain that block inessential information, subsequently opening us up to a wide variety of information and possibilities that are not ordinarily available, yes this is why our brains are on overtime, working like they never have before
the brain works on chemical signals generating electric messages, if there are enough of them, of a certain kind and frequency, emulating a certain mood, or the prequisites or path to that same thought pattern, they may indeed trespass beyond the boundaries of our cranium and affect those within close vicinity.
this could be a possibility as our primordial lower order brains are essentially the same, the same natural fight or flight etc reactions.. using this rational, we could possibly share a telepathic experience with an animal, but i will leave this to later
the question is, do the signals get past the cranium at all, are the 'brainwaves' specific enough to create a pathway to an individuals thought pattern, and would another individuals brain be able to comprehend these messages ie. do others brains emotions and thoughts work on the same principles as another
using this rational, telepathic experiences between individuals would not share a huge depth of accurate 'i know exactly what your thinking' type of information, but could provide the subject
this is assuming that this is how telepathy works of course...
maybe it simply occurs when brain waves are in tune, or have you sensed that you know what someones thinking before, and been way off? is this evidence that brain waves are not similar between individuals?
I myself have never had a telepathic experience when i havent been looking into the eyes of that person, which i feel voids the procedure, so there ya go
welcome back all
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: ]
#1013829 - 11/01/02 04:21 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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When telepathy occurs it has a reason. Trying to get money for it is no reason.
Ah, dustin opts for Classic Excuse #1. It is of course, equally "wrong" to get money for God-given talents in art, music, engineering or even *gasp* being paid to serve others in any fashion.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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machineelf368
self-transforming
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: Swami]
#1014168 - 11/01/02 07:42 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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I refer the readers to the following articles:
Bem, D. J., & Honorton, C. (1994). Does psi exist?: Replicable evidence for an anomalous process of information transfer. Psychological Bulletin, 115(1), 4-18.
Bem, Palmer, & Broughton. (2001). Updating the ganzfeld database. The Journal of Parapsychology, 65(3), 207-218.
Hyman, R., & Honorton, C. (1986). A joint communique: A critical appraisal. Journal of Parapscyhology, 49, 3-49.
Basically, in 1985-86 the Journal of Parapsychology devoted two entire issues to examining telepathy and the Ganzfeld technique of eliciting it. Meta-analysis of 28 telepathy studies involving 10 laboratories was performed. "Of the 28 studies, 23 (82%) had positive z scores (p=4.6 x 10^-4)" (p. 6). Sparing everyone more statistical analysis, these Ganzfeld tests for telepathy involved a subject choosing one of four "targets," either a picture or video clip, which s/he believed had been sent to him or her from another person telepathically. As there are four possible targets, subjects would be expected to guess correctly 25% of the time purely by chance. Meta-analysis showed, however, a hit rate of 35% . This is by no means a large effect but it is an effect nonetheless.
Bem and Honorton's 1994 article improved upon the techniques of the Ganzeld experiments. Their study showed a hit rate of 32% overall, where 25% was again expected by chance. Interestingly, when they looked at sub-populations they discovered that a group they had recruited from a nearby arts school (N=20) had a mean hit rate of 50%!
Bem et al's 2001 study conducted a meta-analysis of 40 studies conducted since the last meta-analysis. These studies all employed the improved "autoganzfeld" technique, which as the name implies was fully automated, removing any possibility of human interference. These 40 new studies gave an overall hit rate of 36.7%
In short, psi exists. Telepathy, meaning "anomalous communication between two individuals," not only exists but is replicable in an artificial scientific setting. If one asks the next logical question, "What is telepathy?" there are a host of answers as diverse as the strains of P. cubensis. Scientifically, however, it boils down to two. The first is "superluminal information transfer." I just love saying that phrase, it's so fun. Superluminal information transfer. That means we send out "waves" faster than the speed of light which other people can "pick up." The EEG-reading device was first invented to pick up these waves. I don't buy it, myself.
The second explanation of psi makes more sense to me personally, and it is simpler. Bell's theorem (any phsycis majors out there?) states that reality is nonlocal. Physics proved this 10 years ago. This means that while in our "macro" world of everyday experience things must be in close proximity to one another to influence each other, in the "micro" world of quantum physics and the brain proximitiy is not a factor. So the second explanation of telepathy is that we don't have to send telepathic"waves" to each other because we are already connected to each other.
So there. 
-m
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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)
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machineelf368
self-transforming
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: machineelf368]
#1014189 - 11/01/02 07:57 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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P.S.
Telepathy happens most often when we enter a state of consciousness commonly called hypnagogic, meditative, in trance, etc. This state is characterized by certain physiological and subjective experiences which are extra-ordinarily similar to that state elicited by tryptamine psychedelics. In short, tryptamines such as psiloc(yb)in and hypnagogia/meditative states shift the field of consciousness from the cortex to the midbrain. This fires up the pineal gland to produce more than usual beta-carbolines and it's own DMT. This state of consciousness is partially reproduced in the (auto)ganzeld experiements I was just talking about. As some of you may know, when harmaline was originally discovered in Amazonian ayahuasca beverages it was dubbed "telepathine" for it's uncanny ability to produce group trips in the tribal participants. My theory is that beta-carbolines such as pinoline (pineal harmaline) which are produced by the brain's pineal gland increase our awareness of the nonlocal anomolous state (aka the Tao, brahman, God, etc.) that we all exist within. So just keep that in mind the next time you eat some 'shrooms.
See also Mavromatis, A. (1989). Hypnagogia. New York: Kegan Paul-Routledge.
-m
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(the above was deciphered from phi (~1.62) using an advanced alphanumeric conversion algorhythm and should not be perceived as meaningful.)
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Anonymous
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Re: Telepathy on shrooms: part II [Re: machineelf368]
#1014712 - 11/01/02 11:43 PM (21 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah, dustin opts for Classic Excuse #1. It is of course, equally "wrong" to get money for God-given talents in art, music, engineering or even *gasp* being paid to serve others in any fashion.
Yes, it is equally wrong, we should be doing everything for free..."free"dom
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