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Zanthius
Mean Alien
Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 1,570
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10163413 - 04/14/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10163507 - 04/14/09 11:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Sounds like the type of class I'd ditch to go smoke marijuana in the parking lot.
Shit, you just described every class.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: Icelander]
#10163511 - 04/14/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Gee I wasn't convinced. At all.
The idea of intelligent design seems based to me on the belief that we are some direct reflection of God.
But honestly it's not a question that can be answered and is of relatively no importance to how we live, if we are mentally or emotionally healthy or anything of real value other than the fun of speculation or the fear of dying and being part of something that bears no resemblance to the human emotional landscape and in no way "cares" about us.
For me it's an unnecessary encumbrance and no more than a balm to my personal anxieties.
I don't post anything with the intention of convincing anyone of anything. I'm just offering the alternative view. The argument from personal incredulity is a logical fallacy. I'm not sure which question you don't think can be answered. If it is whether we can detect design, the answer is obviously, "Yes, we can." If not, the science of forensics would have no bearing on judicial cases.
I think the idea of a personal God, given the nature of "person," implies something each of us has to decide on our own for ourselves. People take solace in a number of things; sometimes reason plays no small part, at other times no part at all.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: DieCommie]
#10163517 - 04/14/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Qubit said:
Quote:
deCypher said: Sounds like the type of class I'd ditch to go smoke marijuana in the parking lot.
Shit, you just described every class.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10163535 - 04/14/09 11:33 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I personally feel as if the benefits of homeschooling far outweigh the benefits of attending public/private school, and I'll probably end up homeschooling my own kids if I ever have any.
Our idea here is parallel. Mine is based on this hierarchy.
Individual. Family. Government.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
Quote:
Icelander said: And the Flying Spaghetti Monster God is real too.
And so is the rebuttal.
That's not a very good rebuttal. It's saying that the FSM could not be the driving force behind intelligent design because it's not intelligent. Where do they get that idea? Everything I know about the FSM is quite intelligent. Consider the way He places old fossils in the ground with His Noodly Appendage. That's not only clever, it's deceitful. A being capable of that is certainly capable of creating life on earth.
Quote:
We have observation-based experience with intelligent agents which shows that they are the only known causes of high levels of specified complexity
By that reasoning, slime mould has the required level of intelligence to form complexity. A flying spaghetti monster surely does too.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: zouden]
#10166111 - 04/14/09 06:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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zouden said:
That's not a very good rebuttal. It's saying that the FSM could not be the driving force behind intelligent design because it's not intelligent. Where do they get that idea? Everything I know about the FSM is quite intelligent. Consider the way He places old fossils in the ground with His Noodly Appendage. That's not only clever, it's deceitful. A being capable of that is certainly capable of creating life on earth.
No, it's not saying that. It is saying, "To invoke the Flying Spaghetti Monster is to invoke an arbitrary, silly, and unscientific cause. But in science, to invoke intelligent causation is not to invoke an arbitrary explanation. We have observation-based experience with intelligent agents which shows that they are the only known causes of high levels of specified complexity — the very type of specified complexity we find in natural structures. Using uniformitarian reasoning, a common form of scientific reasoning which invokes causes that we observe in nature that are sufficient to account for the observed data, we can use our observations about the power of intelligent agents to infer the prior action of intelligent causes. There’s nothing arbitrary about it."
Neat as a pin and clear as a bell. The fact that some aren't convinced is back to the fallacy of personal incredulity.
Quote:
We have observation-based experience with intelligent agents which shows that they are the only known causes of high levels of specified complexity
By that reasoning, slime mould has the required level of intelligence to form complexity. A flying spaghetti monster surely does too.
Your use of the term complexity in this case amounts to equivocation, another logical fallacy.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said: Individual. Family. Government.
A+. I feel the exact same way.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Our idea here is parallel. Mine is based on this hierarchy.
Individual. Family. Government.
Individual. Family. Government. Alien Overlords.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10166470 - 04/14/09 07:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said: Individual. Family. Government.
A+. I feel the exact same way.
See? I knew you were a genius.
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