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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: LSDreamer]
#10142438 - 04/10/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swyfty Swyf said: "Agnosticism" is the term refering to the belief system for "soft" atheists.
Well, not quite. Agnostics say that we just can't know whether or not there is a God. They are essentially neutral on it. Soft atheist actually doubt the existence of God, and put the burden of proof on the believer.
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LSDreamer said: The Ultimate Boeing 747 argument is fairly sound IMO. The Problem of Evil is pretty damaging to the concept of an omnibenevolent god. Also, free will and omniscience aren't too compatible. Et al. Nothing you haven't heard before, I'm sure.
That's certainly a good argument against a common mythical understanding of God, but doesn't defeat some of the more sophisticated theologies like process theology. I would refer those who hold such a position to the book Omnipotence and Other Theological Mistakes by Charles Hartshorne.
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Swyfty Swyf
Shrugsy Shrugs
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 7,113
Loc: North Alabama
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Oh, OK.
I refer to myself as agnostic, since I don't totally discount the idea, as an atheist would.
I guess by those standards I am more of a "soft" atheist, since I doubt the existance of God.
Thanks for the link on that book. I'm interested.
-------------------- If you build it they will shrug.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I guess by those standards I am more of a "soft" atheist
Try anabolic steroids + weights.
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,421
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 42 minutes, 50 seconds
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maybe he's just bloated
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated
Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said: Spirits aren't material.
That is (more or less) the nature of fantasy, it is only material to the extent that it is a thought pattern in the brain of a material being.
-------------------- And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: Trepiodos]
#10144791 - 04/10/09 08:16 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why God does not exist?
Because basically: get on with your life.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Quote:
MindGorilla said: So I'd like to hear some good arguments on why people think that God does NOT exist.
It's very simple: lack of evidence. I don't think that unicorns exist, for the same reason.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,421
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 42 minutes, 50 seconds
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: zouden]
#10147324 - 04/11/09 11:32 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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do you think a sustaining force exists to impart existence onto itself?
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sandman_130
Neo-Classical Spiritualist
Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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No connection to the network.
Therefore, without ever feeling God, it seems absurd and infallible that a God would exist.
Take in part, if an unbeliever thinks that if their was a God, this would be a much better place.
But to the believer, they know why things are as hard and brutal as they might be, God is not here to save us. We can only save ourselves.
Not to mention the corruptness and bloodshed or all organized religions since the dawn of time. Why would a God have such stupid followers? Why would a God not show himself and take control of this planet?
All the answers are simple, but some have experienced no connection with God, and therefor find it useless to look for an answer about something that they believe is stupid.
-------------------- "There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand." Maria Sabina
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
sandman_130 said: Why would a God have such stupid followers? Why would a God not show himself and take control of this planet?
This is akin to asking why a human doesn't care about the trials and tribulations of ants.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10148147 - 04/11/09 02:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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You should see my ant farm. I have named all 8023 of them. They are just soooo cute!
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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#405 is Jesus and #3067 is Mohammed?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: deCypher]
#10148174 - 04/11/09 02:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Um, no. Ant #405 is aptly named 'Ant #405'. I was on a shroom trip when the clever, yet deceptively simple, naming scheme hit me.
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Swyfty Swyf
Shrugsy Shrugs
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 7,113
Loc: North Alabama
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Quote:
sandman_130 said: No connection to the network.
Therefore, without ever feeling God, it seems absurd and infallible that a God would exist.
Take in part, if an unbeliever thinks that if their was a God, this would be a much better place.
But to the believer, they know why things are as hard and brutal as they might be, God is not here to save us. We can only save ourselves.
Not to mention the corruptness and bloodshed or all organized religions since the dawn of time. Why would a God have such stupid followers? Why would a God not show himself and take control of this planet?
All the answers are simple, but some have experienced no connection with God, and therefor find it useless to look for an answer about something that they believe is stupid.
Why would this world be a better place if atheists believed in something unproven? Are you implying that all atheists are unethical?
You think that "believers know things" that non-believers don't? Believers in what? You have not specified what your belief is. What "things" about the world being hard and brutal do believers have the inside scoop on, by possibly believing in make-believe?
What answers are simple? What proof do you have that you have "made a connection with God?"
Edited by Swyfty Swyf (04/11/09 03:59 PM)
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,421
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 42 minutes, 50 seconds
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to think of God as a personal being implies he is discrete
being discrete implies he has boundaries
boundaries imply he has a supportive space
if God is the source of all; what is the source of this supportive space?
to me... God cannot be personal... as being personal means being confined... which imparts the existence of a higher structure
perhaps minor God(s)... but the Supreme Source... would transcend all forms (imo)
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sandman_130
Neo-Classical Spiritualist
Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1,443
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Swyfty Swyf said:
Quote:
sandman_130 said: No connection to the network.
Therefore, without ever feeling God, it seems absurd and infallible that a God would exist.
Take in part, if an unbeliever thinks that if their was a God, this would be a much better place.
But to the believer, they know why things are as hard and brutal as they might be, God is not here to save us. We can only save ourselves.
Not to mention the corruptness and bloodshed or all organized religions since the dawn of time. Why would a God have such stupid followers? Why would a God not show himself and take control of this planet?
All the answers are simple, but some have experienced no connection with God, and therefor find it useless to look for an answer about something that they believe is stupid.
Why would this world be a better place if atheists believed in something unproven? Are you implying that all atheists are unethical?
You think that "believers know things" that non-believers don't? Believers in what? You have not specified what your belief is. What "things" about the world being hard and brutal do believers have the inside scoop on, by possibly believing in make-believe?
What answers are simple? What proof do you have that you have "made a connection with God?"
I have no idea where you came up with your first to 2 sentences...
I did not say that non-believers don't know things, they know many things, none of which are about God. Why would you want to know? I was in no way saying atheist's are dumb, but why would you care to learn about something that is considered childish and foolish. In fact, every atheist I have met, or talked to on here has come off as more intelligent than the average human. That alone makes it harder for one to believe in something when their is no scientific proof.
But their is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist....
Going through Hell only builds character, it shows you just how strong you can be. A person who understands the motives behind our existence understands this concept. On the other hand, every atheist I have talked to has always asked me the same question....why would this happen to me if their was a God? Lot's of spiritual believers think like that too, only because they do not understand these motives.
We all have met the kid who was spoiled and given everything, and never disciplined.
As children of God, are lives must be hard. Only the strong will survive, their is no room for weakness or self pity.
What proof do I have that I have made a connection with God?
I have many examples in my life, present and past. None of which that will satisfy your answer. I could tell you that you can attain a level of consciousness that is close enough to the energy to communicate with it. Telling you this would only make you believe I was a nut, so let's just forget that...
I am not trying to get you to become a believer. I could care less, IMO it is impossible to make anyone believe anything, let alone the existence of an invisible, immortal, all powerful being.
My beliefs are my own, not of any organized religion.
-------------------- "There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand." Maria Sabina
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Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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OrgoneConclusion said: You should see my ant farm. I have named all 8023 of them. They are just soooo cute!
Is that so? I'd love for you to start a thread about what you've learned from them.
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Swyfty Swyf
Shrugsy Shrugs
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 7,113
Loc: North Alabama
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Quote:
sandman_130 said:
Quote:
Swyfty Swyf said:
Quote:
sandman_130 said:
Take in part, if an unbeliever thinks that if their was a God, this would be a much better place.
Why would this world be a better place if atheists believed in something unproven? Are you implying that all atheists are unethical?
I have no idea where you came up with your first to 2 sentences...
I came up with those first two sentences because you said that the world would be a better place if atheists believed in God. That seems unfair and closed-minded.
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I did not say that non-believers don't know things, they know many things, none of which are about God.
OK, but I was asking about the details. What are the things that you "know?" Why would you know more, from believing in something that is not proven to exist? By saying you know things that atheists don't, you sound very illogically presumptuous.
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Why would you want to know? I was in no way saying atheist's are dumb, but why would you care to learn about something that is considered childish and foolish.
Just because I am atheist doesn't mean I don't have a thirst for knowledge. I would want to know about God as much as anyone else would. I don't think it's childish or foolish to believe in God, it just seems that God's existence opens more questions than it answers.
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But their is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist....
You have now opened a bottomless can of worms. There is no scientific proof that Superman does not exist either.
Science isn't designed to disprove things that may or may not exist. It makes more sense to aim for reaching feasible explanations for things that do exist.
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Going through Hell only builds character, it shows you just how strong you can be. A person who understands the motives behind our existence understands this concept. On the other hand, every atheist I have talked to has always asked me the same question....why would this happen to me if their was a God? Lot's of spiritual believers think like that too, only because they do not understand these motives.
Are you implying that you understand God's motives?
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We all have met the kid who was spoiled and given everything, and never disciplined.
As children of God, are lives must be hard. Only the strong will survive, their is no room for weakness or self pity.
This sounds like a Go Army ad.
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What proof do I have that I have made a connection with God?
I have many examples in my life, present and past. None of which that will satisfy your answer. I could tell you that you can attain a level of consciousness that is close enough to the energy to communicate with it. Telling you this would only make you believe I was a nut, so let's just forget that...
I am not trying to get you to become a believer. I could care less, IMO it is impossible to make anyone believe anything, let alone the existence of an invisible, immortal, all powerful being.
My beliefs are my own, not of any organized religion.
Let me guess. You had a psychedelic trip and came to these unsupported conclusions?
-------------------- If you build it they will shrug.
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igwna
The Cap'n
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: You should see my ant farm. I have named all 8023 of them. They are just soooo cute!
Is that so? I'd love for you to start a thread about what you've learned from them.
that being GOD often ends with most of your friends dead.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Atheist welcome! [Re: zouden]
#10150191 - 04/12/09 12:39 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Quote:
MindGorilla said: So I'd like to hear some good arguments on why people think that God does NOT exist.
It's very simple: lack of evidence. I don't think that unicorns exist, for the same reason.
Really? I dont think unicorns exist because of evidence.
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