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JohnSmithe
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Registered: 03/10/09
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Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium
#10116155 - 04/06/09 11:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quart jar was filled to half way point with WBS, PC'd for 1.5-2 hours then inoculated with 2cc's of a Hawaiian multispore syringe from a reputable shroomery sponsor inside of a sterilized glove box. At about a week after inoculation several dime sized mycelial growths where noted and the jar was lightly shaken to expediate growth.
From reading these forums I know that cubensis mycelium should be a pristine white color, however, the growth in this jar seems to be a much duller, almost gray color and somewhat matches the description of cobweb mold.
I lack the experience necessary to distinguish cubensis and cobweb mycelium, and even after scanning through numerous pictures of cobweb and searching the forums, I still have no idea whether this jar is contaminated, although I'm leaning towards early cubensis mycelium development. I've taken a few macro shots of the mycelium in question:

I know there are quite few posts dealing with cobweb mold (I've been looking through them for the better part of an hour now) but getting a first hand opinion from one of the more experienced members would definitely put my mind at ease.
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ABC
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10117986 - 04/06/09 04:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm going to say weak mushroom myc. If that stuff colonizes super fast (like near full colonization in 1 day), then it's cobweb. But since you said it has been a week, I doubt that it is cobweb, which is also rare in jars if you have decent sterile technique
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libertaire
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: ABC]
#10118016 - 04/06/09 04:53 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would say cobweb. Cube mycelium doesn't reach across gaps like that in such a thin manner, but cobweb does.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: ABC]
#10118266 - 04/06/09 05:45 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input
If it is cubensis mycelium it should change from a dull off white color to a thicker pure white as it colonizes, right?
It doesnt seem to be growing that fast, initial growth was seen roughly a week after inoculation and pictures where taken 5 or 6 days after that.
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libertaire
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10119004 - 04/06/09 07:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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It shouldn't be off white to begin with. Cobweb will turn whiter over time as well. I don't have the pictures anymore, but I had a jar that was completely colonized with cobweb and it looked exactly like mycelium, but it smelled sort of like dust and started out very thin. Feel free to wait it out, but I have a feeling that jar is toast, it looks way too thin to be mycelium.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: libertaire]
#10123225 - 04/07/09 01:11 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm going to continue watching it for the time being, but I'm definitely not keeping my hopes up.
I'm not sure how I can improve my sterile technique though I PC'd the jar for almost 2 hours. It was then pulled out of the PC directly into a alcohol covered paper towel and was then placed into a clean glove box. Syringe was flamed to red hot then wrapped in a second alcohol laced paper towel and also placed in the box. Box was lysoled heavily then left to sit for 15-20 minutes. Latex gloves where where worn and doused in alcohol before inoculation. jar lid consists of 2 tyvec filters on either side of the lid plate with micropore tape placed over the injection site.
Did I miss anything, or is there a step I can add to the procedure to reduce the likelihood of future contaminants?
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libertaire
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10125398 - 04/07/09 06:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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That all sounds very sterile, I'm not sure what could have gone wrong. The only place I could see that a contaminant got in would be if the syringe was contaminated to begin with. However, you said you got it from a sponsor, so that's not likely. I really don't know what it could be. Just keep trying I suppose. Most people don't succeed on their first try. Hell, I didn't succeed until my third or fourth try.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: libertaire]
#10135808 - 04/09/09 11:43 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess its a good thing that I have quite a bit of patience for this kinda thing.
I do have a question though, after sterilized jars are removed from the pressure cooker, when is it appropriate to remove the tin foil from the top? I've noticed that the tyvec is fairly moist directly out of the PC and it doesn't seem to dry out to any extent if the tin foil remains. I'm using a double layer of tyvec on all of my jar lids (sandwiching the lid plate between them) to avoid wicking contams in, but if there's some way to dry the filters without exposing them to contaminants I'd love to have that extra protection.
Also, I was wondering if there's any dangerous reactions when ISO alcohol and a 10% bleach solution come into contact? At the moment I'm using lysol disinfectant spray to sterilize my glove box, but it seems like bleach would be much more suited for the job.
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Duggstar



Registered: 01/20/09
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10136798 - 04/09/09 02:23 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
JohnSmithe said: Yeah, I'm going to continue watching it for the time being, but I'm definitely not keeping my hopes up.
I'm not sure how I can improve my sterile technique though I PC'd the jar for almost 2 hours. It was then pulled out of the PC directly into a alcohol covered paper towel and was then placed into a clean glove box. Syringe was flamed to red hot then wrapped in a second alcohol laced paper towel and also placed in the box. Box was lysoled heavily then left to sit for 15-20 minutes. Latex gloves where where worn and doused in alcohol before inoculation. jar lid consists of 2 tyvec filters on either side of the lid plate with micropore tape placed over the injection site.
Did I miss anything, or is there a step I can add to the procedure to reduce the likelihood of future contaminants?
Don't use micropore tape for the inoculation points. It is okay for PF jars with a dry verm layer but not for grain jars. Use a self healing inoculation point instead. You can buy special ones for this purpose, but you can also just put a dab of silicon on your inoculation point and let it dry before you pressure cook.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Duggstar]
#10136874 - 04/09/09 02:38 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, I've read about self healing injection ports but thought micropore could be used as a substitute while also allowing for better gas exchange. I'll have to reconstruct all of the jar lids I've already prepared before I do anything else.
Thanks for the heads up, hopefully it reduces my contamination rate in future jars.
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Duggstar



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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10136930 - 04/09/09 02:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
JohnSmithe said: Yeah, I've read about self healing injection ports but thought micropore could be used as a substitute while also allowing for better gas exchange. I'll have to reconstruct all of the jar lids I've already prepared before I do anything else.
Thanks for the heads up, hopefully it reduces my contamination rate in future jars.
You already have filters on your lids, right? They are for gas exchange. There is no need then to use your inoculation points for gas exchange.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Duggstar]
#10137072 - 04/09/09 03:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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True enough, I was just under the assumption that a higher rate of gas exchange was beneficial and that using the inoculation hole as an additional point of gas exchange would aid in the mycelium's growth.
In retrospect I should have used silicone but I was unaware that micropore makes for a poor filter material on grain jars.
Luckily I haven't had the time to set up any more jars yet and can rectify my mistake before I do.
I actually have a self healing mat for use with exacto knives and it seems like it would be ideal for making self healing injection ports. Next time I'm sterilizing jars I'll have see if it can withstand the high temperature of a pressure cooker.
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Duggstar



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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10137163 - 04/09/09 03:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's not that it is a bad filter material, but in order to inoculate you need to either uncover it or poke a hole in it, so I don't think it makes for a very sterile procedure. If you use a self healing inoculation point, then as long as your syringe is sterile and not contaminated, nothing can get in during inoculation.
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Duggstar]
#10137227 - 04/09/09 03:42 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ahhh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up.
One last question: At what point after sterilization do you remove the tinfoil cover from the jar lid?
I've read that you can remove it right after sterilization is complete, but wouldn't it be moist enough for contaminants to wick through at that point? But by leaving it on you trap any moisture in the filter material which means that you're faced with the same problem later.
Is there some way to dry the lid filters without removing the tinfoil guard that I'm not aware of?
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Duggstar



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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#10137372 - 04/09/09 04:05 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well I don't know, but I'd follow RogerRabbits tek and he is probably the most knowledgeable person on this site. He says to wait until the jars are cool and then take off the foil. If you listen to him you can't go wrong
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JohnSmithe
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Duggstar]
#10137779 - 04/09/09 05:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, I've actually been reading through his posts and watched a majority of the videos on his website. I was just unsure about the slightly moist tyvec filters, but if removing the foil right after cooling works for him then i cant see why it wouldn't work for me as well.
Guess I just gotta keep trying til it works, good thing I've got enough spore solution left for quite a few more attempts at making a grain LC.
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Duggstar



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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Duggstar]
#10141511 - 04/10/09 10:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Duggstar said: Well I don't know, but I'd follow RogerRabbits tek and he is probably the most knowledgeable person on this site. He says to wait until the jars are cool and then take off the foil. If you listen to him you can't go wrong 
Actually this is bad advise, I was just reading through some of his old posts and found this
Quote:
You're supposed to use a filter material as part of the lid assembly, and remove the foil as soon as you remove the jars from the PC to prevent condensation from getting the filter damp. RR
I was following the video, and I don't think he made this clear on the video unless I missed something.
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fotd_smile
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#12526489 - 05/08/10 09:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just as a side note*
You do not want tyvek on the inside of your jars. Make sure the metal lid is on the inside then the tyvek then the metal band. It prevents the tyvek from getting wet which will cause contam growth.
Quote:
RR said *The tyvek should be OUTside the lids. If you put the tyvek inside the jar, you'll have a much higher contamination ratio. TYVEK
This website is a great list of all RR notes. So very useful. RR Notes
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: JohnSmithe]
#12526919 - 05/08/10 11:54 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
JohnSmithe said: 
Mold. It may not be Dactylium(cobweb), but it's mold. Toss it. RR
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Littleb2020
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19511155 - 02/02/14 01:39 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I bet you a cubensis spore print thats aspergillis if i spelled that correctly that what my first and last attempt at bird seed looked like when i added moisture it went ape spit white and turned green in a day did you soak those seeds im thinkin this soaking for 24 hrs thing is serious advice.
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Kizzle
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Re: Cobweb Mold or Cubensis Mycelium [Re: Littleb2020]
#19511422 - 02/02/14 02:30 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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We'll probably never know. The OP was last seen almost 3 years ago 
If I had to guess I'd say maybe a Rhizopus or Mucor species but an Aspergillus species would be a possibility too.
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