|
 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
 The Metaphysics of Entities 
#10115889 - 04/06/09 10:39 AM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Many of us have experienced them. The distinct sensation of something apart from our own consciousness, either manifested through pharmacology, dreams, meditation, or magick. But what, exactly, are these entities?
Hypothesis: They are simply figments of an overactive imagination. Mystically inclined seekers tend to have very fantasy-oriented personalities and any technique that produces a tangible entity to the subject is a way of coaxing out autonomous personality subroutines from the mind as a whole. You are not contacting anything apart from yourself; instead you are accessing fragments of your own subconscious. (More evidence for this comes from the statistic that the majority of normal people do not see entities. It's only when one's regular pattern of neural functioning is perturbed by special techniques or by ingestion of an external substance that these entities suddenly come to life: putting far more weight on the idea that these beings dwell solely in our brain.) Cases of possession may be ascribed to this autonomous routine attempting to seize control of the main program--as the brain is composed of a modular assembly of competing neural networks, it makes sense in an evolutionary strategy that the most successful modular networks would want to survive by hijacking all other routines. The idea of competing ideas in memetics is also a good analogy; Gods, daemons, and spirits invoked by magickal techniques or through ingestion of DMT are competing for your belief in them as this is the only thing that gives them power. To thine own Self be true; invest not in the idea of higher beings looking out for you but instead correctly attribute their source to your own Awareness.
or
Hypothesis: These entities do exist separately from your own mind. As we are merely biochemical machines and yet we simultaneously possess consciousness, it seems logical that from any sufficiently complicated functional system of interacting parts consciousness of some degree will emerge. This implies not only that we ourselves are sentient, but that any society composed of interacting humans possesses a level of awareness that is greater than the sum of its parts. On an even larger scale, Gaia the planet, the Solar System, and even the Universe as a whole is conscious. In addition, we can note some tendency of sentience to evolve itself into different mediums; the ability of the human biocomputer to program and metaprogram itself is testament to this. It seems inevitable that if uninterrupted by extinction or otherwise cataclysmic disaster that all intelligent life will evolve towards a point where we are pure thought and spirit alone; unchained from this imprisoning matter. Or if not on such a grand level, it seems logical that many other races throughout the Universe have evolved to significantly more advanced stages than ourselves. In this case I see no problem with attributing the spirits or entities encountered during our mystical experiences to be actual, intelligent life-forms. (The prevailing Law of One stuff with Pleiadian or Orionian entities would be a good example.)
Unfortunately I find at this present time to be torn between these two options (and perhaps an alternative to these two even exists.) Ultimately to pry the subjective from the objective seems impossible in this manner; our limited perspective from this singular consciousness ensures that any perceptions we have of this entity could always in theory be attributable to the mind alone and not to external parties--and in fact pure belief alone seems sufficient to induce valid experiences of external phenomena. Lilly has some good reading on this dilemma in his book Programming and Metaprogramming the Human Biocomputer; but the best quote I've found on the topic is from Crowley:
By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.
Your thoughts?
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
|
 Newfound_wonder
Social Outcast
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 447
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
|
 Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10115928 - 04/06/09 10:49 AM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
It's best to assume the null hypothesis unless you can gather meaningful statistical data that can objectively prove that the null hypothesis should be rejected. Otherwise people are going to shove anti-psychotics down your throat.
--------------------
If it's good for fungus, it's good for us...
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
|
Quote:
Newfound_wonder said:
Otherwise people are going to shove anti-psychotics down your throat.
That's if they can find you in the first place. 
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10117251 - 04/06/09 02:37 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Well this question has come up again and again, and I think it is the basis of what separates P&S and M&P. :P
I would, of course, fall into the latter hypothesis, but I would tweak it a bit. I believe we are all, ultimately, fragmented parts of a larger universal consciousness, and therefore the perceived "separation" of these entities is merely an illusion. So "technically" they are part of our own mind, but not part of our individual fragmented consciousness. I would call these boundaries fluid, which gives the psychedelic effect of entities, or beings merging with our consciousness.
So it doesn't really work with the status quo world view of what consciousness is. I don't think consciousness can be quantified, and therefore I don't think science will find an answer to such questions.
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10117465 - 04/06/09 03:13 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: I believe we are all, ultimately, fragmented parts of a larger universal consciousness, and therefore the perceived "separation" of these entities is merely an illusion. So "technically" they are part of our own mind, but not part of our individual fragmented consciousness.
Ah, so I presume you sympathize with Jung's Collective Unconscious? I like his discussion of archetypes and I feel there is much truth behind it; although of course I would say that the scientific method is not necessarily restricted against verifying this hypothesis.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10117697 - 04/06/09 03:57 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
I find it best to heed Crowley's advice, and remain agnostic as to the separate existence of these entities. If they do have some separate existence, they would have to be made of something other than the matter and energy with which we are familiar(perhaps there's some connection with all that "dark matter" that scientists are so puzzled about).
--------------------
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: Silversoul]
#10118068 - 04/06/09 05:04 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Silversoul said: If they do have some separate existence, they would have to be made of something other than the matter and energy with which we are familiar.
How do you figure? Thoughts are similarly immaterial and yet I think it is inescapable that this is fundamentally correlated with matter and energy; both the material and the mental seem to be different aspects of the same fundamental substance. I'm not sure it's necessary to invent new aethyrs when consciousness itself already permeates physical matter.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 11 years, 9 days
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10118689 - 04/06/09 06:55 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
So "technically" they are part of our own mind, but not part of our individual fragmented consciousness
I agree. I was gonna say that its kinda both.
But.. i think you can still manifest some of em. Not in the sense that your dealing with your subconscious , although i think thats possible too, rather, that we can literally create beings with our thoughts. The power of imagination is infinite , and nothing goes unnoticed and unfiltered in time/space.
--------------------
---------------------
All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10119100 - 04/06/09 07:52 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: If they do have some separate existence, they would have to be made of something other than the matter and energy with which we are familiar.
How do you figure? Thoughts are similarly immaterial and yet I think it is inescapable that this is fundamentally correlated with matter and energy; both the material and the mental seem to be different aspects of the same fundamental substance. I'm not sure it's necessary to invent new aethyrs when consciousness itself already permeates physical matter.
Right, but we're talking about whether or not they have "separate" existence, i.e. existing as something other than mere constructs of the mind. I would say that if they do have independent existence, they are certainly filtered through the mind into recognizable forms(which is why no Christian mystic ever records a vision of Avalokitesvara, and why no Buddhist ever records a vision of the Archangel Michael).
--------------------
|
jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 11 years, 9 days
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: Silversoul]
#10119331 - 04/06/09 08:18 PM (15 years, 13 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: If they do have some separate existence, they would have to be made of something other than the matter and energy with which we are familiar.
How do you figure? Thoughts are similarly immaterial and yet I think it is inescapable that this is fundamentally correlated with matter and energy; both the material and the mental seem to be different aspects of the same fundamental substance. I'm not sure it's necessary to invent new aethyrs when consciousness itself already permeates physical matter.
Right, but we're talking about whether or not they have "separate" existence, i.e. existing as something other than mere constructs of the mind. I would say that if they do have independent existence, they are certainly filtered through the mind into recognizable forms(which is why no Christian mystic ever records a vision of Avalokitesvara, and why no Buddhist ever records a vision of the Archangel Michael).
I think they sometimes modify their appearance in order to be recognizable.
Are you familiar with the Seth material maybe ?
--------------------
---------------------
All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
|
Diaboleros
Devil's spawn
Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: jivJaN]
#10121221 - 04/07/09 02:42 AM (15 years, 12 days ago) |
|
|
There are no physics. It's all a dream within a dream. Matter is an infinitily hierarchical structured recursive dream, thats how he/she created the world in order to give us everything and make the impossible possible. As above so below, our own dreams are proof for this being a possibility. Our instincts are proof of our natural connection to the creator. So much undeniable proof, so little believers..
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10131850 - 04/08/09 05:32 PM (15 years, 11 days ago) |
|
|
Well, I've probably posted on this before in the past 9 years, but...astral entities...that appear to me like small grey elliptical shapes gliding along the floor. My Lady has seen these in our current home around the area of our grandfather clock - the same area that I have caught them in my peripheral vision. However, the most profound perception occurred some 20 years ago in my ex-wife's house. We were watching TV with our sheep dog at our feet. All of us, including the sheepdog, Pandy, saw something. Pandy lifted her head and tilted it in that curious dog gesture at the same moment my ex and I turned toward the darkened floor beneath the dining room table. I thought it was a mouse or a tailess shrew. I got up and turned on lights. I looked under all the furniture. My first conclusion gradually lifted when we discussed the fact that we saw the color, shape and movement, but no details: no legs, head, tail, squeak, etc. Only then did my thinking move from the strictly physical. It was not a trick of car lights in the street casting shadows, for example. We discussed as many physical possibilities as we could. The ex was very material-minded, while I was the metaphysician.
Despite Crowley's advice, I have come to a conclusion that other dimensions or planes momentarily interface with our own. When my very grounded, non-flakey and intelligent Lady first arrived in Jamaica at age 7 to live with grandma, coming from London, England, she apparently saw 'duppies.' For her these duppies were tall male entities wearing black top hats, cloaks and leggings, and would suddenly emerge from the upper branches of trees outside the veranda, descend to the veranda, walk right past her into the house and then vanish when she chased after. Her grandmother would tell her that being fresh to Jamaica, she had "new eyes." I realize that this form has much of the undertaker look of Baron Samdhi, the L'wa of the Guede family of entities that are described in Haitian Voudun. At age 7, with no previous instruction, a child has the potential of mediumistic abilities. She saw these entities on 2 or 3 occasions and I keep asking for more details, just to keep the memories alive if for no other reason.
I take everything I have read from magick and 'primitive' religion with a grain of salt, but after 30+ years of learning and experiences, I am hesitant to define Reality in terms of subjective-objective or internal-external, projection-perception. When Carlos Casteneda 'flew' on the Devil's Weed (which I grow all over my yard), he asked Don Juan Matus what would happen if he had chained himself to a big rock. Don Juan said that then he'd fly chained to a big rock. I realize these tales are fictional, but they do elicit food for thought. Vishnu dreams the universe and everything in the universe is equally real relative to one another, but as ephemeral and unreal as the images in our own dreams, relative to Vishnu (God). Anomalies are indeed "glitches in the Matrix" only it is not the demiurgic Architect from the films that has created our Matrix, it is the Demiurgic God, the Creator, of which the Gnostics speak. If we were fully enlightened, we too would be fearless as Neo was before Agents or bullets in his Matrix. Even as 'real' bullets penetrate our 'real' bodies and we bleed 'real' blood and feel 'real' pain, it is all illusory relative to the Ground Consciousness from which the whole physical drama emerges. We die, but the fear is gone, replaced by Knowing.
--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (04/09/09 09:21 PM)
|
dummy
I am you and what I see is me
Registered: 09/29/08
Posts: 3,973
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
|
nice post man ^
--------------------
People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
 Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: dummy]
#10139394 - 04/09/09 09:22 PM (15 years, 10 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks!
|
c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
|
|
Interesting you use the term "New Eyes." I remember somewhere that when the ships of the first explorers entering the New World were off on the horizon, only the Shamans could see the ships. As if they had an ability to perceive more, and the average indigenous person was not tuned to experience something so far out of its consciousness construct.
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10141551 - 04/10/09 10:15 AM (15 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: I remember somewhere that when the ships of the first explorers entering the New World were off on the horizon, only the Shamans could see the ships. As if they had an ability to perceive more, and the average indigenous person was not tuned to experience something so far out of its consciousness construct.
Perhaps the same applies today with UFOs? 
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 11 years, 9 days
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10141587 - 04/10/09 10:28 AM (15 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Maybe thats why they throw shows for me ? 
Like.. fuck it.. no one else is paying attention 
--------------------
---------------------
All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
|
EmbracingShadows
Deaf
Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 227
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: deCypher]
#10145017 - 04/10/09 08:45 PM (15 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Aye, Of course this caught my eye and I end up clicking on it.
Both are correct. There are entities wich in fact are not entities wich are parts of yourself I feel have been brought into "existance" through yourself to learn somthing or obtain somthing, of course unless it's just an illusion you have wrapped yourself within, but if it is an entity created through your own consciousness that would typically be a part of it's purpose, to disillusion.
Many a time I have experienced entites that others were able to percieve. Often speaking and manifesting themselves visually and often in my case being I typically end up working and dealing with entities of a darker nature, moving objects with gut sickening anger and intensity.
These things are things I have contemplated quite often being I experience them on such a regular basis, So in places where I have found that specific entites are bound to I conducted personal tests and brought people to these places (without their knowing of what I was doing of course.  ) to see if they would feel anything.
Through doing this I have found that yes, these specific entities are beings in their own right and deserve that respect. More often than not I have found that you can learn and experience much from them if you acknowledge them and respect them for what they are. Don't walk into the situation with any preconcieved hypothesis or notion of what they are and what they are capable of.
Let the raw pure experience be your teacher. It can often be quite uncomfortable and frightening, but in a sense i'm sure many of you would undertand that quite well and know how to adapt to it, through learning to swim through and move in the ocean of the entheogenic experience.
If any one lives in Oregon in the portland area I would be glad to show them some of these things, Ah! a few of the areas I have found through study were actually sacred and very respected by the native americans, and what I experienced in these places actually coincided with why they respected it. So if I ever show these places to someone I require they show and have the same respect for them that they would anything sacred.
|
spyder
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
|
|
These entities must also be shown that they must respect you. They can vary from just confused to malicious. They still can't invade your space.
|
EmbracingShadows
Deaf
Registered: 05/23/05
Posts: 227
|
Re: The Metaphysics of Entities [Re: spyder]
#10145214 - 04/10/09 09:19 PM (15 years, 9 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
spyder
These entities must also be shown that they must respect you. They can vary from just confused to malicious. They still can't invade your space.
Absolutley.
Thank you for saying this.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale 
Injection Grain Bag 
Red Vein Kratom 
Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds 
Buy Bali Kratom Powder
Edit 
Reply 
thefloodbehind
Bridgeburner
1 2 all )
whatsgrimace
FleshCap
SycoNautix
deCypher
LuSiD9