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InvisibletrendalM
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U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough
    #10037147 - 03/25/09 05:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough

Researchers are reporting compelling new scientific evidence for the existence of low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR), the process once called “cold fusion” that may promise a new source of energy.

One group of scientists, for instance, describes what it terms the first clear visual evidence that LENR devices can produce neutrons, subatomic particles that scientists view as tell-tale signs that nuclear reactions are occurring.

Low-energy nuclear reactions could potentially provide 21st Century society a limitless and environmentally-clean energy source for generating electricity, researchers say. The report, which injects new life into this controversial field, will be presented here today at the American Chemical Society’s 237th National Meeting. It is among 30 papers on the topic that will be presented during a four-day symposium, “New Energy Technology,” March 22-25, in conjunction with the 20th anniversary of the first description of cold fusion.

“Our finding is very significant,” says study co-author and analytical chemist Pamela Mosier-Boss, Ph.D., of the U.S. Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR) in San Diego, Calif. “To our knowledge, this is the first scientific report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from an LENR device.”

The first report on “cold fusion,” presented in 1989 by Martin Fleishmann and Stanley Pons, was a global scientific sensation. Fusion is the energy source of the sun and the stars. Scientists had been striving for years to tap that power on Earth to produce electricity from an abundant fuel called deuterium that can be extracted from seawater. Everyone thought that it would require a sophisticated new genre of nuclear reactors able to withstand temperatures of tens of millions of degrees Fahrenheit.

Pons and Fleishmann, however, claimed achieving nuclear fusion at comparatively “cold” room temperatures — in a simple tabletop laboratory device termed an electrolytic cell.

But other scientists could not reproduce their results, and the whole field of research declined. A stalwart cadre of scientists persisted, however, seeking solid evidence that nuclear reactions can occur at low temperatures. One of their problems involved extreme difficulty in using conventional electronic instruments to detect the small number of neutrons produced in the process, researchers say.

In the new study, Mosier-Boss and colleagues inserted an electrode composed of nickel or gold wire into a solution of palladium chloride mixed with deuterium or “heavy water” in a process called co-deposition. A single atom of deuterium contains one neutron and one proton in its nucleus.

Researchers passed electric current through the solution, causing a reaction within seconds. The scientists then used a special plastic, CR-39, to capture and track any high-energy particles that may have been emitted during reactions, including any neutrons emitted during the fusion of deuterium atoms.

At the end of the experiment, they examined the plastic with a microscope and discovered patterns of “triple tracks,” tiny-clusters of three adjacent pits that appear to split apart from a single point. The researchers say that the track marks were made by subatomic particles released when neutrons smashed into the plastic. Importantly, Mosier-Boss and colleagues believe that the neutrons originated in nuclear reactions, perhaps from the combining or fusing deuterium nuclei.

“People have always asked ‘Where’s the neutrons?’” Mosier-Boss says. “If you have fusion going on, then you have to have neutrons. We now have evidence that there are neutrons present in these LENR reactions.”

They cited other evidence for nuclear reactions including X-rays, tritium (another form of hydrogen), and excess heat. Meanwhile, Mosier-Boss and colleagues are continuing to explore the phenomenon to get a better understanding of exactly how LENR works, which is key to being able to control it for practical purposes.

Mosier-Boss points out that the field currently gets very little funding and, despite its promise, researchers can’t predict when, or if, LENR may emerge from the lab with practical applications. The U.S. Department of the Navy and JWK International Corporation in Annandale, Va., funded the study. Other highlights in the symposium include:

Overview, update on LENR by editor of New Energy Times – Steve Krivit, editor of New Energy Times and author of “The Rebirth of Cold Fusion,” will present an overview of the field of low energy nuclear reactions, formerly known as “cold fusion.” A leading authority on the topic, Krivit will discuss the strengths, weaknesses, and implications of this controversial subject, including its brief history. (ENVR 002, Sunday, March 22, 8:55 a.m. Hilton, Alpine Ballroom West, during the symposium, “New Energy Technology)

Excess heat, gamma radiation production from an unconventional LENR device —Tadahiko Mizuno, Ph.D., of Hokkaido University in Japan, has reported the production of excess heat generation and gamma ray emissions from an unconventional LENR device that uses phenanthrene, a type of hydrocarbon, as a reactant. He is the author of the book “Nuclear Transmutation: The Reality of Cold Fusion.” (ENVR 049, Monday, March 23, 3:35 p.m., Hilton, Alpine Ballroom West, during the symposium, “New Energy Technology.”)

New evidence supporting production and control of low energy nuclear reactions — Antonella De Ninno, Ph.D., a scientist with New Technologies Energy and Environment in Italy, will describe evidence supporting the existence of low energy nuclear reactions. She conducted lab experiments demonstrating the simultaneous production of both excess heat and helium gas, tell-tale evidence supporting the nuclear nature of LENR. She also shows that scientists can control the phenomenon. (ENVR 064, Tuesday, March 24, 10:10 a.m., Hilton, Alpine Ballroom West, during the symposium, “New Energy Technology)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10037149 - 03/25/09 05:22 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds interesting....but I think I'll wait for some verification!


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10037693 - 03/25/09 09:25 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I read about this the other day.  It is interesting, and I'm sure some relief to Pons and Fleishmann, though this may not actually be fusion.  My question is though is what kind of output would this provide in terms of efficiency?  And, how exactly would this method be used to generate electricity?  My understanding of a normal fusion reactor is that it would somehow capture the heat and use either thermoelectric materials or more likely conventional steam turbines to generate electricity.  I'm not sure how they would turn this into power.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10038064 - 03/25/09 10:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

And as always... they are chemists.  :tongue2:

Seriously though, from what I read they are just passing a current through a solution?  Is that it?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: DieCommie]
    #10038135 - 03/25/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I think it involves a palladium catalyst as one of the electrodes, along with heavy water.

The idea was that the duterium in the heavy water would be attracted to the palladium electrode and that it would sort of "pile up" until fusion was reached (bad explanation). They supposedly have data showing neutrons were produced...which would be a pretty strong indication that there is some fusion going on (or an as-of-yet undiscovered nuclear reaction).


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10038872 - 03/25/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I read their article, they have a lot of evidence for nuclear reactions.  Hot spots on the electrode, excess enthalpy, craters with metal that had melted containing new elements.  Pretty damn exciting stuff.


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"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: Cannashroom]
    #10039645 - 03/25/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

It's cool but it's miles away from producing any power. It may never be more than just a curiosity. There is the hilsch vortex tube invented over 100 years ago. You blow air into one end and warm air come out of one opening and cooler air out of the other. It sounded like a major breakthrough but never amounted to anything. Then of course there is the famous pons - flieshman cold fusion which was nothing more than wishful thinking.

It's good we are making advances. This may lead to something substantial later on.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #10039936 - 03/25/09 04:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

> though this may not actually be fusion

If they are detecting high energy neutrons (20mev range) then there isn't anything else it could be.  Big if...


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: Seuss]
    #10040169 - 03/25/09 04:34 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Seuss wrote:

"> though this may not actually be fusion

If they are detecting high energy neutrons (20mev range) then there isn't anything else it could be.  Big if... "

We aren't sure if they have actually detected HE neutrons and besides that, there are other processes which can produce them besides fusion. And even if fusion did occur, which seems highly unlikely, it may not be suitable as an energy source because of various factors. It may require more input power than you get out. But it is interesting.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10040260 - 03/25/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

> there are other processes which can produce them besides fusion.

Yes, but:

1) Neutrons produced by fusion have a specific energy.  Neutrons produced by other methods will have a different energy level.

2) They don't have the 'other methods' in the experiment to produce neutrons, thus if they are detecting neutrons, then most likely they are coming from fusion.  Again, a big if on the detecting bit.  Once reproduced, and once the energy levels are accurately calculated, there will be no doubt (one way or the other).


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: Seuss]
    #10040385 - 03/25/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

What are the energy levels of the neutrinos that were detected? What levels do you believe indicate fusion and why?

One other explanation for the HE neutrinos, if indeed they have been detected, is fission. There could be some tritium mixed in with the deuterium which would tend to decay naturally giving off a variety of HE particles.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10040608 - 03/25/09 05:43 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

One other explanation for the HE neutrinos, if indeed they have been detected, is fission. There could be some tritium mixed in with the deuterium which would tend to decay naturally giving off a variety of HE particles.




Radioactive decay is not fission.  Tritium decays via low energy beta (and an anti-neutrino); it does not release a neutron when it decays.

Edit: I just noticed you wrote "HE neutrinos" while I have been talking about neutrons.  I assume you made a typo.

> What levels do you believe indicate fusion and why?

It depends upon the interaction.  Why?  A change in binding energy.  For example, fusing tritium with deuterium creating helium-4 will release 17.59 MeV every single time.  The helium particle will have 3.5 MeV and the neutron will have 14.1 MeV, every single time.  If you detect a helium-4 particle with 3.5 MeV and a neutron with 14.1 MeV, you know that they were created by fusion.  Measuring neutron energy levels, along with looking at decay products, is how we know what happens during a nuclear bomb explosion.  Looking at the products, we can reverse engineer the weapon design with a very high level of accuracy.


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Edited by Seuss (03/25/09 05:45 PM)


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Offlinekotik
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10073114 - 03/30/09 10:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

source?


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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: kotik]
    #10074325 - 03/30/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)



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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: trendal]
    #10099404 - 04/03/09 09:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I find it pretty amazing that much of the techno-fetishizing press fails to mention EROEI. Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROEI) is whether the supposed "alternative" energy process can generate enough surplus energy to power itself (as well as the manufacturing process of all its parts). If it requires a net loss in energy and fossil fuel subsidy, there really is no point, since it is still dependent on fossil fuels, which our cheap access to will shortly decline.

There is a good explanation of EROEI and "alternatives" at http://www.jeffvail.net/2006/11/energy-payback-from-photovoltaics.html


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Offlinecomposter
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Re: U.S. Navy scientists claim cold fusion breakthrough [Re: cuddlebear]
    #10113956 - 04/05/09 11:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Pretty cool stuff.


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