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Offlinethomas9032
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Registered: 03/08/09
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sporulation in WBS prep
    #10106845 - 04/04/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

After reviewing many WBS teks, I notice that allowing the WBS to soak for 12 hours or so is a common method used to encourage the germination of otherwise resistant spores or cysts. If the WBS is then simmered (as is instructed in WBS teks), wouldn't the bacteria/fungi quickly sporulate again, returning to their most resistant forms?

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Offlinethomas9032
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep [Re: thomas9032]
    #10106863 - 04/04/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Also, why is it necessarily bad if the grain bursts during simmering?

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InvisibleJef
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep [Re: thomas9032]
    #10107625 - 04/04/09 10:03 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

1.) No, not if it happens quickly.

2.) People like to shake their grains and they are sticky if they burst, and also it is a sign that the grains have been cooked too long which does not favour optimum growth.

Hope this helps

Jeff


--------------------
I am my own lab rat.


Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep (moved) [Re: thomas9032]
    #10109294 - 04/05/09 08:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.

Reason:
Off topic in advanced mycology.

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OfflineNineInchNails
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10109613 - 04/05/09 10:00 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I soaked for 24 hrs then dropped the WBS into a bath of HOT water (flame off), and stirred occasionally for 10 min. Some seeds split, but not many. Doing a soak then hot bath/simmer sill saturate the WBS nearly to its core.

I've tried small batches of WBS MANY different ways, cut the seeds in half, and took photos just for fun. Also to see which way absorbed more water. The soak and hot water bath worked best. Simmering, hot soak, etc… all are similar and will give you similar results. Actual simmering (with flame on low) gave me more split seeds.

YES ... if you get a bunch of split seeds then your hands will get starchy when you move the seeds around. I don't know if split seeds impede mycelium growth, but it can lump together in the jar IF you do not dry the seeds properly. As long as you tumble your WBS and give it adequate time to dry to where it doesn’t stick to your hand … it will not clump up in your jars.

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Offlinethomas9032
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep [Re: Jef]
    #10112498 - 04/05/09 07:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Jef said:
1.) No, not if it happens quickly.

2.) People like to shake their grains and they are sticky if they burst, and also it is a sign that the grains have been cooked too long which does not favour optimum growth.

Hope this helps

Jeff




Jeff,
As far as I know, many microorganisms have the ability to encyst quite rapidly. A quality autoclave should kill all organisms, even cysts/spores... with the exception of the notorious hyperthermophile, strain 121. But pressure cookers are less precise instruments, which I suppose is why grain teks instruct most people to coerce the germination of spores and excystment. I think some microalgae can encyst in about 30 seconds when conditions turn awry! Likewise I'd imagine fungi/bacteria would have similar capabilities. And because simmering does not kill many contaminant organisms, the average 30 minute simmer seems like plenty of time to induce encystment/sporulation of undesired organisms. Wouldn't it be more logical to simmer prior to soaking?

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InvisibleJef
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Re: sporulation in WBS prep [Re: thomas9032]
    #10112755 - 04/05/09 08:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I don't really know about all that, maybe it would work too.

I believe that simmering kills anything that's not encysted.  The pressure forces water in to kill cysts. Some labs even autoclave things twice.

The fact that a pressure cooker is not precise or high tech is not evidence that it doesn't work as well.

Try simmering some unsoaked seed and I think you'll find all your seeds explode because of the too-fast expansion of the inside of the grain relative to the slower expanding husk.

If you think it would be an advantage over what already works for many people, you should say what you think it would be or try it and let us know how it is better ?

Jef


--------------------
I am my own lab rat.


Tell me and I will forget. Show me and I will remember.  Involve me and I will learn.

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