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OfflinePsilocybinMike
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10110197 - 04/05/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Joe Rogan is a pretty good guy who has made some legitimately valid comments about psychedelics in different interviews and such that he has had. I don't think he knows everything there is to know about this sort of stuff, but after hearing him you can tell he has a pretty good grasp on it.

Doug Stanhope is better though, IMO.

:mushroom2:


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10111108 - 04/05/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, you know you're just being that kid in high school that went against the trend just because he thinks he is better than everyone else.  No real reason to, except to get attention.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10111180 - 04/05/09 03:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

It's weird how Rogan makes a huge deal about people using other peoples material when he himself says things, word for word even, taken from Mckenna and Strassman. Never once have I heard him give credit. He always makes it sound like he's talking about his own experiences but he obviously isn't.


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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: muistrue]
    #10111328 - 04/05/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Is it not possible that mckenna and strassman have a better description of the effects psychedelics have on him and his mind?  I mean we are talking about psychedelics.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10112065 - 04/05/09 06:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

McKenna was a bright person who had a way of describing the effects that was Dead On. Joe Rogan just describes it in a way that would be more directed at a more uninformed person than at someone who has experience with these chemicals.

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OfflineTheSollyLama
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: T-Rex]
    #10112974 - 04/05/09 08:54 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

high school? Not for 20 years or so. No, what I said is simple truth. Joe Rogan is a moron. He has proven it over and over again, virtually everytime he speaks in fact.

His belief in pretty much every nonsense conspiracy theory isn't my invention- it's his own idiocy. I've heard his nonsense notions on everything from UFO abduction to 9/11 conspiracies.

His own admissions of belief mark him as unintelligent. Unable to use the most basic logical and critical thinking he instead of thinking, simply spouts. Most of it just regurgitating crap he heard some other kook say.

What seems childish to me, is blindly following the word of some one based on their celebrity rather than their qualifications. Like the other conspiracy kool aid drinker I mentioned. You know, nevermind what experts, trained and educated people have to say, but instead hitch your wagon to a celebrity because they look good on tv.

Now that, at least to me, sounds like the mark of immaturity. If you choose to get your information from sources so utterly clueless about which they speak, then it's not anyone's fault but your own for believing in nonsense.

Just because Rogan happens to be pro-drugs as we all are here, doesn't mean he is informed, nor a good spokesmen for the cause. He only brings celebrity, not informed opinion.

Worse, given his blathering on so many asinine topics outside of this one, he can only serve to drag us down. Much like having a neo-nazi claim to speak for you is going to hurt your credibility, no matter what topic is actually being discussed.

We don't need a conspiracy theory wonk, UFO believer tard speaking on our behalf. He is an embarrassment more than a help. People who might otherwise listen to what Rogan says about drugs will no doubt link his moronic belief in every other nonsense issue to the discussion he has on dope.

It's that simple. Pick a better spokesman. Or at least hope that this one shuts the hell up before people assume everyone that likes recreational drugs is a similar believer in every idiotic notion on the planet. I'd no sooner have David Duke claim to support psychedelics than Rogan.

Either way, its a net loss of credibility.

I could care less what Rogan, or any celeb has to say about anything. We really ought to have higher standards for whom we claim as an ally.

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Offlineteeter
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10113286 - 04/05/09 09:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Who cares if he believes in UFOs and 9/11 conspiracies. I bet a lot of people on this site believe at least some of that crap. That shit is 100% not relevant to whether or not his influence on psychedelic drug use is positive or negative. Who gives a shit what his personal beliefs and eccentricities are as long as the guy spreads the word about psychedelics truthfully and clearly. I've heard a few of his interviews about psychedelics and from what I can tell, he tells an easily understood version of the psychedelic experience and he is adamant about the safety of psychedelics. Please tell me whats wrong with that?

If you don't like the guy fine, but don't be biased, just because you don't like him doesn't mean he can do no right. I don't like Obama, but if he rips Kim Jong-il a new one over that missile thing, I won't complain.


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake

"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das

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OfflineTheSollyLama
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: teeter]
    #10113429 - 04/05/09 10:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Teeter, I get what you are saying. But here's my rub with it- if he has zero credibility because of other things he's claimed- who is going to take him seriously now?

For example, let's say David Duke goes pro-pot. Who is going to even hear what he says about it over the din created by his being a Klansman?

Credibility is key to any cause. Rogan has none. Not in this or any topic because he shot it to hell promoting nonsense.

It's actually worse. Because just as I do, when someone points to Rogan as a spokesman, you will be reminded he is also a spokesman for virtually any wildly asinine claim made.

First it makes me doubt his commitment to anything. He sort of throws everything against a wall and claims to believe it 100%. What makes his defense of drugs any more logical or relevant? Is his defense of drugs just another silly assertion like all his others?

Second, why would anyone that might disagree with drugs, or even be on the fence be swayed to our side by someone that thinks 9/11 was not the act of terrorists on planes?

Meaning, he isn't living in the real world to begin with. At best, people will use him as an example of drugs making you stupid, since he fits the bill.

Remember how Charlie Manson became the poster child of the crazed druggie. He's dismissed not because he's a killer (he didn't kill anyone) but because he's a raving lunatic, mostly linked to drug use. Whether the dope made him nuts isn't even an issue- only the casual link that is drawn between his drug use and his violence.

When I see Rogan, I don't see an authority on anything but the UFC. He's a total laughingstock among intellectuals- the people we SHOULD be courting to our cause.

It's not a personal dislike of Rogan, I've never met him. I've never met Manson either and I don't want to. I don't want EITHER speaking 'for me' on any topic.

I think he hurts the cause. By being an idiot then identifying with a group (such as pro-drug people) his idiocy is rubbed off on us in the eyes of our opponants. We don't need that kind of 'friend' in my opinion.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm glad you took the time to discuss it with me. You, by the way, in two short paragraphs were more eloquent and coherent than Rogan is given an hour of air time. So I would much rather have YOU speak for me (even if we disagree on this point) than Joe Rogan.

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Offlineteeter
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10113509 - 04/05/09 10:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think we're both picturing this debate very differently in our minds. I'm thinking of this along the lines of "Is Joe Rogan a positive for psychedelics?" and you seem to be thinking like, "Would I choose Joe Rogan as our (the psychedelic community's) spokesman in a 1v1 debate?" Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would completely agree with, Rogan has basically zero credibility and would be used as an example of how psychedelics can make you a total space cadet. In a 1v1 debate he would get demolished in minutes and it would set the progress of psychedelics bakc 10 years. However, from the broader point of view, I think Rogan is actually a positive. His fanbase consists of many people that could be convinced to try psychedelics and he speaks fairly truthfully about psycedelics. I believe that he will influence people to try them and to have positive experiences with them and this will probably mark a positive change in psychedelic usage. Rogan could be fucking braindead for all I care, but I think his influence will be generally positive. Who knows, maybe some kid out there is listening to Rogan right now and deciding to do acid, and in ten years he will lead a psychedelic reform in which these drugs become legal. Obviously thats a stretch, but the point is, Rogan is getting the word out and thats better than D.A.R.E. getting the "word" (read lies) out.


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake

"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das

Edited by teeter (04/05/09 10:34 PM)

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OfflineTheSollyLama
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10113597 - 04/05/09 10:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

That's a good way of putting it.

But I don't really mean spokesman in a formal sense. His celebrity makes him a 'spokesman' for whatever topic he's babbling about.

Sadly, I think psychedelics are just another of his half formed, unoriginal notions. He's more liable to damage our cause than help it.

How? Because of his fame people will actually ask him. And when they do they will get the full effect of his nonsense. His celebrity works against us in that regard.

As for his fan base. That's a crap shoot really. UFC itself is rather controversial with many people seeing it as barbaric (although I love the UFC, so don't count me as a detractor of MMA) and not alot more intellectually stimulating than wrestling. Also, when you appeal to so many, you must have a bunch of idiots in that herd as well as decent folk. Guess who will get the air time.

I don't see the fan base issue being large. That is an ancillary concern.

However- it could backfire easily. Alot of his fans are also kooks that embrace all manner of nonsense. The blind leading the blind so to speak. A shepard of the stupid in many cases, especially as he gains more notoriety for his theories than his color commentary of UFC.
More- some of those fans may accept all his nonsense along with his views on drugs- filling the pro-drug cause with people clearly out of touch with reality. That cannot help.

I just don't see him as helping. If he's wrong about pretty much everything he claims, then people will lump his views on drugs in that same catagory.

As for his label of spokesman, that is only because he has the forum to blather to alot of folks. I do not. So while we may agree on drug policy, his message comes from a guy with the intellectual strength of a gnat, watered down by years of believing and espousing torrents of crap.

He is a timebomb waiting to bite us in the ass. Bill O'Reilly will never have me on to talk about drugs, but Rogan very well could end up being ambushed and destroyed very publically on the topic. He IS likely to be called out on his view on drugs (as he has been on his conspiracy nonsense) and when it happens, he's going to make us all look like boobs, as he makes all conspiracy believers look.

Hope that clarified about my use of the term 'spokesman'.

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Offlineness1123
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: Angel_Above]
    #10113645 - 04/05/09 10:57 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i think that he would be a great help to legitimizing psychedelics. he might not be the most knowledgeable person like terence mckenna or tim leary but people can relate to him which makes him a decent flag bearer


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Ever since my first delving into these "dark arts" I realized there is substance to these substances.

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OfflineTheSollyLama
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10113750 - 04/05/09 11:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

BUt what people relate to him? Alot of nutjobs and people that won't help our cause any.

Especially as he gets more famous for his theories.

Just as here, when he said something pro-drug, people embraced him, defend him, and like his celebrity being linked to our cause.

However, for years he's been a darling of the tin foil hat crowd. Far longer than being pro-drug, Joe has been pro-nonsense.

I'm not saying he's derailing a movement that seems to be gaining steam. Frankly I think his 15 minutes are about up anyway.

But in general drugs (especially psychedelics) have been linked to 'space cadet' mentality and that hippy naivete about the world. The flower children did nothing to help the image of recreational drug use. Rogan does nothing to help it now.

I totally get where you guys come from on it. But I don't believe that 'any press is good press' and that Rogan in particular is a bad source of info on anything, much less drug policy. He is far more likely to say something stupid (since it's been his bread and butter for years) than say anything intelligent.

Sure, given time to write and probably an editor to make it readable- he may even come off as harmless. But he is notorious for using any air time he gets to promote his nonsense theory of the nanosecond, and often comes off as slightly retarded doing so.

It would be a disaster to have him start pontificating on our cause, only to be obliterated by the most basic logic.

He has repeatedly denied we went to the moon, that 9/11 was an American plot, that UFO's abduct people daily, that secret societies run the world.....ad nauseum.

Who could be a worse person to have linked to recreational drug use?????

Especially since we know he doesn't have an original idea in his head, he merely regurgitates other kooks theories as his own. He is unprepared to make an intelligent defense of his claims.

And one of those claims now is that psychedelics are okay. How is anyone not part of the counter culture going to differentiate that claim from all the tin foil hat claims he makes?

I'd rather have no press than his kind of press.

Sadly, I also think too many users of psychedelics are wrapped up in the hocus pocus world as well. I'm a great fan of psychedelics, but I never mistake taking a drug for a 'spiritual journey' either. It's drugs, they feel good. That's good enough for me without watering it down with supernatural type hooey. I can enjoy my trip without inventing a man behind the curtain.

If our image was that of intellectuals seeking a private pleasure harming no one, that'd be great. Instead of a bunch of hippy wannabes looking for a spirit realm they create. Nothing says 'drugs are for people looking to escape reality' (as DARE likes to say) as people right here claiming to do just that.

But that's a different topic.

Edited by TheSollyLama (04/05/09 11:16 PM)

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OfflineTheSollyLama
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10113899 - 04/05/09 11:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Let me give you another example.... Montel Williams.

Here is a very pro-pot guy. He has a military service record, is in the homes of millions of people.

He is a million times more eloquent than Rogan could dream of being.

And yet, Williams used his show to promote all manner of nonsense. From Sylvia Browne and the psychic charlatans to new age 'energy' therapies and several conspiracies.

Separating the chaff from the good he does is difficult. His fan base is mostly people that believe in the paranormal, and don't actually question anything. Rather just believing him because he's a celebrity.

Would I rather Montel just stick to quack cures and phony psychics (well, they are all fakes, but Montel promoted specific ones) and leave the pot debate alone? Absolutely.

Sure he's well spoken (something Rogan can't claim) and all. But he is more than that one issue, and his other issues destroy his credibility, no matter how right he might be.

His fan base is no one we need on our side. His promotion of idiocy in other forms taints any legitimate endeavor he under takes. You can't convince people to believe one thing someone says when every other thing he says is total garbage.

Wasn't Jerry Springer the Mayor of Cincinnati? But no one is going to ask him his opinion on budgetary constraints of teacher's salary raises in inner city schools. He blew whatever credibility he had as a real politician by doing that show of his. Springer's fan base is equally not one I'd like to see identified with pro-drug policy (unless it's forced contraception).

It's about what's best for our image. I am not and I admit that. I am a tattooed biker type with a mohawk and generally bad attitude. I may be able to grasp the english language alright, but I say Fuck too much to be on TV.

The difference is that I don't have a national audience to offput because of my appearance or vulgarities. Rogan has an audience to spout idiotic things to, which will get linked to anything he champions, including drug policy (or just that drugs aren't dangerous).

I'd like to be wrong. But it's nothing new. Rosie O'Donnell was much loved until she determined that 'fire has never melted steel' before in her conspiracy nonsense. HUH????? Third grade science class anyone?

With a single utterance of such epic stupidity she blew any credibility she ever had. Any other issue she tackles, no matter how right or just, is now tainted by her stunning ignorance.

I think Rogan is even worse because he's made a career of saying stupid things and believing in total bunk without question.

If I were on the other side of the fence about drugs, I would salivate over having a putz like Rogan disagreeing with me. He's got years of evidence showing he is a buffoon. He is all the 'evidence' I need to demonstrate drugs make you stupid.

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OfflineLegalize
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #10114138 - 04/06/09 12:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Joe Rogan is the man and if you say otherwise he will put you in a jujitsu leg lock.


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Opiate free since 8/26/10 :thumbup:

Opiate free since 6/22/11 :thumbup: :sun: :thumbup:

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OfflineStoneyBologna
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: Angel_Above]
    #14215619 - 03/31/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I forgot how much I love this guy...
He has balls of steel and a message with no filters. Nice!

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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: StoneyBologna]
    #14215665 - 03/31/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Roe Jogan is :awesome:


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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #14215861 - 03/31/11 04:52 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Balls of steel!

He's a bit nutty but he's one of the few people actively talking about psychedelics with any sort of mainstream credibility, so I say let him

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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: muistrue]
    #14215912 - 03/31/11 05:04 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Atleast I've heard him source and quote Mckenna.

Other then that. Being a senior in highschool, I've seen a lot of kids
talk about Dmt and even 10 or so talk about doing it when I couldn't
find it and that says a lot. Shit is blowing up in populartity.
Good or bad?
For example there's one kid who's a wigger ufc dumbass at my school
who fights a lot and has smoked it a few times. Not sure if he broke through.All I know is he "threw it on bowl of kind bruhhhh and was so gooone."

I was shocked this school year how many people I assumed would be clueless knew about it.
My guess is since Rogan comments MMA. His comedy and what not.. People going on youtube stumble into his dmt vids


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InvisibleAbstraKt_I_Am

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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: TheSollyLama]
    #14216068 - 03/31/11 05:33 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

Dude I'm sick of people saying shit like that. Seriously if your expecting society to ever tune in to the movement listening to some boring ass professor mundanely, or even excitingly talking about pychedelics your crazy (no offence to you).
Our culture and society are soooooo conditioned to being entertained that your going to have to entertain with the theme of pyschadelics or publicy have celebrities openly admit and encourage the use to get this movement anywhere. The gov. Not helping, neither the news or even MAPS could in a way a celebrity can. Celebritys are the movements future I think, nothing else and so quickly and easily persuade a bunch of people to give pychs a go. Imagine an example.

Lady Gaga(I'm pickin her on popularity factor) twitter a bunch of shit about dmt. Out of millions of nutty fans. People will listen to her just because of the heavy power and influnce behind her words. And from there the word only spreads


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OfflineFlowing
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Re: Joe Rogan [Re: AbstraKt_I_Am]
    #14216636 - 03/31/11 07:09 PM (13 years, 1 day ago)

I think that he generalizes and regurgitates information.

Fuck Joe Rogan.

You shouldn't go on a radio talk show and say EVERYBODY SHOULD DO DMT!!!!  It's not a good idea, it's horribly immature.

It's nice that he has something good to say about it, but it doesn't help that he rants and raves and misuses information.

He's diluting and polluting good ideas with his verbal diarrhea.


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He believed that educated people
could make up their own minds.
His motto, as head of one of the first and
most important review panels, was great encouragement: "We're not here
to play God."


-DMT: The Spirit Molecule

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