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 Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
 
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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 Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? 
#10081814 - 03/31/09 05:08 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not?
The drugs are listed in ascending degree of harm
.
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higher knowledge starts here
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 Coaster
BaĘżal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
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Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081818 - 03/31/09 05:10 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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LSD FTW 
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante] 1
#10081830 - 03/31/09 05:11 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I would legalize all of them, including prescription drugs. I would keep penicillin controlled I think, since it poses a true public health danger.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081863 - 03/31/09 05:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I would decriminalize all, and legalize most, with strict regulations on production and distribution. With highly addictive drugs like heroin, I would prefer a system where doctors can prescribe small "maintenance doses" to addicts to help them get by and live relatively normal lives.
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10081865 - 03/31/09 05:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
I would legalize all of them, including prescription drugs. I would keep penicillin controlled I think, since it poses a true public health danger.
Legalize all, my body man.
It does, only i the same way it does now, a bacteria evolving to combat it, not like people get high off it.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10081868 - 03/31/09 05:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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You dont think meth poses a true public health hazard?
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higher knowledge starts here
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081879 - 03/31/09 05:18 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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No, I dont. Meth poses a personal health hazard only.
A person has the right to take whatever substance they want, for health or for recreation. I think even prescriptions in general are an affront to my inalienable rights. I shouldn't have to get a doctor's or government's permission to take what I want.
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Set
candy colored clown
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach 
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081894 - 03/31/09 05:20 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Legalize all, obviously. Prohibition isn't effective.
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 classic LOVELINE
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AmericanPsycho
Abomination of Nature
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 8,501
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Last seen: 4 years, 18 days
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081900 - 03/31/09 05:21 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Legalize all. I don't think it's their right to tell us what we can use.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10081906 - 03/31/09 05:21 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Don't you think meth would increase violent behavoir in susceptible people?
Or that legal barbiturates wont increase the nomber of traffic accidents?
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10081912 - 03/31/09 05:22 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
No, I dont. Meth poses a personal health hazard only.
A person has the right to take whatever substance they want, for health or for recreation. I think even prescriptions in general are an affront to my inalienable rights. I shouldn't have to get a doctor's or government's permission to take what I want.
Who says it's a persons right to take whatever they want?
I don't get what is with people and being "individual" what the hell is individual anyway, your actions affect anyone around you.
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,378
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081917 - 03/31/09 05:23 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
I would decriminalize all, and legalize most, with strict regulations on production and distribution.
Sure, a lot have the potential to cause a "true public health hazard", however I think it would be possible to manage the risk:benefit ratio by shifting resources from prohibition to increasing public health.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Set
candy colored clown
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081925 - 03/31/09 05:24 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
You dont think meth poses a true public health hazard?
Doesn't matter. Delicious bacon causes arterial blockage, and heart disease is the #1 killer in America. You should have animal fat on the list.
(ps I'm pretty sure you're playing devil's advocate...I just wanted to say delicious bacon  )
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classic LOVELINE
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Set]
#10081942 - 03/31/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Set said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
You dont think meth poses a true public health hazard?
Doesn't matter. Delicious bacon causes arterial blockage, and heart disease is the #1 killer in America. You should have animal fat on the list.
(ps I'm pretty sure you're playing devil's advocate...I just wanted to say delicious bacon )
Yeah but we aren't talking about bacon. We're talking about meth.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10081947 - 03/31/09 05:26 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Don't you think meth would increase violent behavoir in susceptible people?
Or that legal barbiturates wont increase the nomber of traffic accidents?
Maybe, but of course it is the violent behavior that should be criminalized (and the intoxicated driving).
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10081949 - 03/31/09 05:27 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
Who says it's a persons right to take whatever they want?
I did.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Set]
#10081954 - 03/31/09 05:28 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure you're playing devil's advocate...
I chose to legalize everything, but under good control.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10081956 - 03/31/09 05:28 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
Quote:
learningtofly said:
Who says it's a persons right to take whatever they want?
I did.
Okay, I say it isn't. What/where is the justification
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10081990 - 03/31/09 05:33 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
Quote:
Qubit said:
No, I dont. Meth poses a personal health hazard only.
A person has the right to take whatever substance they want, for health or for recreation. I think even prescriptions in general are an affront to my inalienable rights. I shouldn't have to get a doctor's or government's permission to take what I want.
Who says it's a persons right to take whatever they want?
I don't get what is with people and being "individual" what the hell is individual anyway, your actions affect anyone around you.
They may effect the feelings of those around you, but as long as your kids arn't being abused then it's fine. Feelings don't count, if someone's choice hurts you like that then avoid them. I heard it put once, that if we make illegal things the hurt feelings then noone could break up with their significant other.
The idea of society is used to clump groups of individuals together for advertising and political campaigns. We are individuals, that is how the constitution sees...or saw us. The people of this country are just full of ignorant, shit faced ideas now like what you posted. God, it's such a stupid, un-American statement that I wish I could spit in your face.
The fact anyone would want to regulate what I take on my time makes them an evil cunt, especially when they allow worse things to be markited to me like cigs.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: doom876]
#10082019 - 03/31/09 05:35 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Way to get really personal and insult me just for questioning your POV.
I never said anything about hurt feelings at all, I'm aware that it isn't a justification. Which leads me to question why you are only attacking the argument that you made up.
As for your last paragraph where you called anyone who disagrees with you an evil cunt, that still is not a justification for ingesting anything you want.,
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,378
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082024 - 03/31/09 05:36 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I look at cigarettes as an example. Once something is "legal" it eliminates the black market and allows greater control of substance use.
You can increase prices and taxes. You can start work-based "quitting programs", and begin public education programs to change perceptions of drug use. You can hire more police to reduce "driving under the influence".
You could divert prohibition funds to increase all of these measures, and effectively reduce the public health impact IMO. This has been done with cigarettes and use has been decreasing since 1965.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: doom876]
#10082057 - 03/31/09 05:39 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Feelings don't count
Welcome to the Internet 
Quote:
un-American
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Omnicyclion.org
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082191 - 03/31/09 05:57 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
Way to get really personal and insult me just for questioning your POV.
I never said anything about hurt feelings at all, I'm aware that it isn't a justification. Which leads me to question why you are only attacking the argument that you made up.
As for your last paragraph where you called anyone who disagrees with you an evil cunt, that still is not a justification for ingesting anything you want.,
ok
"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
There, justified.
Some things don't have a two way street. Pot legalization, for example. People can try to look both ways, but in the end some things are just stupid, like beating your wife, female circumcision, beating your child, human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, dog fighting, war, etc.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: doom876]
#10082207 - 03/31/09 05:59 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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"Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness" are all within a certain bound. You can't just do whatever you want and claim it in the name of those.
As for the second part, I don't get how you equate not letting people smoke weed with murder and war. That's the farthest stretch I've ever seen/
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082222 - 03/31/09 06:03 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
"Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness" are all within a certain bound. You can't just do whatever you want and claim it in the name of those.
As for the second part, I don't get how you equate not letting people smoke weed with murder and war. That's the farthest stretch I've ever seen/
What are the limits? You go to far then they mean nothing. I think, and most sane people who believe in the rights of mak, see that controlling what you ingest is as fundamental as controlling weather you have sex.
Well, the drug WAR is pretty much just that, I mean, ask Mexico or Phoenix, AZ, the new kidnap capital of the US.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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Gr33nTree73
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 4,095
Loc: 585/843
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10082243 - 03/31/09 06:06 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I'd legalize the dank and i would make nicotine illicit only because most US cigarettes are infested with a bunch of extra shit.
isn't GHB already illegal at this point?
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wolf fish
bull of heaven
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10082246 - 03/31/09 06:06 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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there wasnt a select all option or a stal option your poll is invalid
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: doom876]
#10082247 - 03/31/09 06:06 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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So you're saying that because I'm not on the same page as you that i'm insane? Sex and drugs are not the same, sex is needed for the continuation of the species, recreational drug use is just that, recreational.
also, "most sane people think it therefore you should think it" isn't gonna cut it.
Drug WAR is a play on words.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Gr33nTree73]
#10082254 - 03/31/09 06:08 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Youd make nicotine illegal because of the non-nicotine substances in cigarettes?  Why not just make the non-nicotine substances illegal...
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Kada
Asha'man
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Posts: 12,395
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10082285 - 03/31/09 06:12 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Legalize everything. Criminalize nothing.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper. 
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Wapakz
1000 Needles
Registered: 11/13/08
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082318 - 03/31/09 06:15 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I believe everything should be legalized for public use, however some I believe should only be done with a medical professional's guidance and prescription.
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082324 - 03/31/09 06:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
So you're saying that because I'm not on the same page as you that i'm insane? Sex and drugs are not the same, sex is needed for the continuation of the species, recreational drug use is just that, recreational.
also, "most sane people think it therefore you should think it" isn't gonna cut it.
Drug WAR is a play on words.
You are looking at private things to much as what they do to everyone. A few stupid people will fuck up no matter what.
Sex is not always, in fact, the majority of the time isn't used for that, so don't BS me, like when pro-choicers(I am one) say that abortion is for rape victems when that is around 1% of the people who get them.
What you do recreationally is probably the thing that should be MOST private, "pursuit of happiness". When you regulate rec time beyond causing harm to another you are pretty much destroying the notion of pursuing happiness.
Yeah, "most sane people think it therefore you should think it", is about how it is when it effects me. If I wanna smoke a plant, hell, if I wanna shoot up and rot in the streets because I can't feed myself because all my money(assuming I don't steal), it's my business. Besides, it just doesn't work, regulating substances. On the history channel, they say about the same amount of people use drugs as before they were illegal. Those who don't want to wont.
Hay, someone side with me^^
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
Edited by doom876 (03/31/09 06:22 PM)
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Gr33nTree73
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 4,095
Loc: 585/843
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10082341 - 03/31/09 06:18 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
Youd make nicotine illegal because of the non-nicotine substances in cigarettes? Why not just make the non-nicotine substances illegal...
because it wasnt an option
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
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Last seen: 28 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Gr33nTree73]
#10082413 - 03/31/09 06:25 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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No one has the right to say what another person puts in their body. When they try, it just goes underground and is uncontrolable. Better to just legalize it.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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GoaM
damaged
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10082460 - 03/31/09 06:31 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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End Prohibition, it's a failure. Regulate, age restrict, control potency.
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MisterMuscaria
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 27,646
Loc:
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10082481 - 03/31/09 06:32 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Wow...am I really the only one who thinks mdma/extacy should be illegal?
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Coaster
BaĘżal
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Posts: 33,501
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
#10082512 - 03/31/09 06:35 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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ya u heathen
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doom876
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/08
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
#10082519 - 03/31/09 06:36 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMuscaria said:
Wow...am I really the only one who thinks mdma/extacy should be illegal?
Probably, since it's a non-violent offense and prohibiting a substance just doesn't work in general.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
#10082525 - 03/31/09 06:37 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Probably.
I voted for legalize everything. Regulate so that quality is controlled.
People have the right to put whatever they want into their body.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082595 - 03/31/09 06:45 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I wonder who decided THC was more harmful than methylthioamphetamine or solvents, lol...
*cough* (bullshit) *cough* *cough*
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
#10082596 - 03/31/09 06:45 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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It was made for couples therarpy. It isn't just some drug some dude in his basement came up with. Who are you to tell anyone what they should put in their body anyways? As long as they are not harming anyone, whats the big deal? I did have a guy at a rave come up and full on lip kiss me once before i realized what was going on. I guess you could call that harming me if you wanna get technical lol. And no i didn't like it.
If being happy and full of energy should be illegal, then fucking shoot me now. If you use responibly then how is that different than drinking responibly? Different people like different flavors of fucked up.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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libertyshroom
Turn up the silence
Registered: 08/04/08
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Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Shroomism]
#10082680 - 03/31/09 06:54 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Drugs are here no matter what. You can't get rid of them, THEY GROW OUT OF THE FUCKING GROUND. So making them illegal just drives the market underground where it can't be controlled and innocent lives are destroyed by corrupt laws.
Criminals have an incredibly easy way to make money and as you see in mexico they make enormous amounts of money which equals enormous amounts of guns and power.
Make them legal and what happens? Not mass death and public health issues and extreme violence, that's prohibition. Instead drugs are more pure and safe, their sale and use can be regulated and profits made from sold drugs go to the government and the country not criminals. Addicts can see a doctor instead of a judge.
And on top of all that logic, we have(or are supposed to have) the right to put what we want into our OWN bodies.
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"Trip to heave and ho, up down, to and fro"
We have been to the moon, we have charted the depths of the ocean and the heart of the atom, but we have a fear of looking inward to ourselves because we sense that is where all the contradictions flow together.
-Terrence McKenna 
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Kada
Asha'man
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: libertyshroom]
#10082738 - 03/31/09 07:01 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
libertyshroom said:
Drugs are here no matter what. You can't get rid of them, THEY GROW OUT OF THE FUCKING GROUND. So making them illegal just drives the market underground where it can't be controlled and innocent lives are destroyed by corrupt laws.
Criminals have an incredibly easy way to make money and as you see in mexico they make enormous amounts of money which equals enormous amounts of guns and power.
Make them legal and what happens? Not mass death and public health issues and extreme violence, that's prohibition. Instead drugs are more pure and safe, their sale and use can be regulated and profits made from sold drugs go to the government and the country not criminals. Addicts can see a doctor instead of a judge.
And on top of all that logic, we have(or are supposed to have) the right to put what we want into our OWN bodies.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: libertyshroom]
#10082745 - 03/31/09 07:02 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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You have never owned your body.
Ownership is a concept brought to fruition only through the coercion of forces of law and government.
In your lifetime you have never been allowed the right to use your body as you choose (even in the absence of preventing another's same right).
You have never been your own property.
I say this because I would like for us to one day look back, see that this was true, and on that day see that it is no longer.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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atl_eg
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082828 - 03/31/09 07:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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anything and everything
if you can't control yourself that's a personal problem
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#10082834 - 03/31/09 07:17 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
You have never owned your body.
Ownership is a concept brought to fruition only through the coercion of forces of law and government.
In your lifetime you have never been allowed the right to use your body as you choose (even in the absence of preventing another's same right).
You have never been your own property.
I say this because I would like for us to one day look back, see that this was true, and on that day see that it is no longer.
It's true, but not trying to take parts of it and make them yours is better then submitting completely.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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FurrowedBrow
Free yourself from yourself
Registered: 10/26/06
Posts: 2,439
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082864 - 03/31/09 07:23 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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It's a ridiculous argument to say that any of these substances should be illegal.
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Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies - Become a member!
I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.
~ Thomas Jefferson
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 4,401
Loc: Cali
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#10082889 - 03/31/09 07:27 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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I herby declare all arguments null and void ...we the people do not get to choose the laws anymore ,a group of jackasses do that all on thier own ,claiming to take what the people want into consideration.
To put it in perspective ,its like cage full of test monkeys talking about what tests they want done to them....all the talk does not change anything,it only entertains them while they wait for those who are really in controll to act.
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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!
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jds
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 3,083
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10082902 - 03/31/09 07:30 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Why isn't mescaline in the poll? 
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“No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten.”
― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL
Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: badchad]
#10082906 - 03/31/09 07:30 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
I would decriminalize all, and legalize most, with strict regulations on production and distribution.
Sure, a lot have the potential to cause a "true public health hazard", however I think it would be possible to manage the risk:benefit ratio by shifting resources from prohibition to increasing public health.
i'm with these guys.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10082930 - 03/31/09 07:34 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Don't you think meth would increase violent behavoir in susceptible people?
Or that legal barbiturates wont increase the nomber of traffic accidents?
it may very well do so, but those people get put in jail for their VIOLENT acts. if i want to use meth, and clean my house all night long, have a horrible crash, it should be my choice to do so.
Now, if someone goes and gets addicted to their legal cocaine, and decides to rob a store that sells it, then they should get arrested for robbery, just as an alcoholic would for stealing some booze.
legalize all drugs, even though i think regulation is good (as alcohol is regulated), having ANY drug a schedule 1 substance (USA Laws) is ridiculous, it stops any and all research being done on them, other than what the govt. allows.
peace
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uber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: atl_eg]
#10082958 - 03/31/09 07:39 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
atl_eg said:
anything and everything
if you can't control yourself that's a personal problem
the argument that legalization of one particular substance will drastically increase the number of users isn't even pseudo-science, its outright bullshit.
proper education on mild-altering substances is the only way to go.
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: supra]
#10082980 - 03/31/09 07:41 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Don't you think meth would increase violent behavoir in susceptible people?
Or that legal barbiturates wont increase the nomber of traffic accidents?
it may very well do so, but those people get put in jail for their VIOLENT acts. if i want to use meth, and clean my house all night long, have a horrible crash, it should be my choice to do so.
Now, if someone goes and gets addicted to their legal cocaine, and decides to rob a store that sells it, then they should get arrested for robbery, just as an alcoholic would for stealing some booze.
legalize all drugs, even though i think regulation is good (as alcohol is regulated), having ANY drug a schedule 1 substance (USA Laws) is ridiculous, it stops any and all research being done on them, other than what the govt. allows.
peace
We need research to prove they are necessary and safe to research so we can research them to prove them safe and useful. Catch 22.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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suburbanned
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10082989 - 03/31/09 07:42 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
You dont think meth poses a true public health hazard?
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: uber_aj]
#10082991 - 03/31/09 07:43 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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One of the hazards of legalization is drug tourism. Believe it or not, many people in Amsterdam don't like all the stoners that visit their city from around the world every year. When Switzerland created a "junkie park" in Zurich(IIRC), things got bad really quickly, and they soon reversed the decision. I think ideally, drug legalization should occur through an international treaty that legalizes drugs in all signatory nations.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: suburbanned]
#10083005 - 03/31/09 07:45 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence. I would prefer, at least at first, to legalize some less harmful forms of amphetamines such as dexedrine and adderall, and hopefully tweakers would switch to those instead.
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doom876
Stranger
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10083018 - 03/31/09 07:47 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. SOME People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence.
There. Don't punish everyone because some people can't handle themselves. Some people get that way on booze after all.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10083037 - 03/31/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence. I would prefer, at least at first, to legalize some less harmful forms of amphetamines such as dexedrine and adderall, and hopefully tweakers would switch to those instead.
people should only be held back by law when they infringe on OTHER PEOPLES freedoms. So if somebody using meth causes damage to someone else by going into a violent rage, they get charged with assault, battery, and public intoxication, and what ever other crimes they committed. if someone else does meth and harms absolutely nobody but himself, then by all means, he has EVERY right to do so, since he is not infringing on any other persons rights.
peace
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: supra]
#10083085 - 03/31/09 07:58 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence. I would prefer, at least at first, to legalize some less harmful forms of amphetamines such as dexedrine and adderall, and hopefully tweakers would switch to those instead.
people should only be held back by law when they infringe on OTHER PEOPLES freedoms. So if somebody using meth causes damage to someone else by going into a violent rage, they get charged with assault, battery, and public intoxication, and what ever other crimes they committed. if someone else does meth and harms absolutely nobody but himself, then by all means, he has EVERY right to do so, since he is not infringing on any other persons rights.
peace
As I said, I would decriminalize all drugs, so someone with a small amount of meth for personal use would not be breaking any law. But I would rather not have legal manufacture of it so long as there are safer alternatives. At most, I could see legalizing it in a less potent pill form. Harm reduction should be key, and I think meth is dangerous enough that we ought to take extensive measures to try to reduce its use. It is socially corrosive in a much more serious way than just about any other drug I've ever seen.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
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Last seen: 28 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10083168 - 03/31/09 08:10 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence. I would prefer, at least at first, to legalize some less harmful forms of amphetamines such as dexedrine and adderall, and hopefully tweakers would switch to those instead.
I did lines of meth for like 6 months every now and then about 10 years ago. I never got violent or even got addicted. I didn't turn into the guy in the anti-meth commercial that looked all fucked up sick. I quit when i felt like it. It was super fun for awhile there.
I don't do it now because i would rather smoke weed and chill. I don't like getting all energized and uppity. If all drugs were legal i wouldn't touch meth anyways. I would go get some good cocaine at cheap ass prices. Imagine doing a line of cocaine a pharm company made for personal use. Oh man who the fuck would want meth anyways with professional grade cocaine.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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doom876
Stranger
Registered: 08/01/08
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Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10083215 - 03/31/09 08:16 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
supra said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Responsible meth use, no. Dirty street meth with gangs controlling who gets what, yes.
Meth is one of those drugs where the actual use of it can make people more violent. People get more paranoid and trigger-happy on it. It's not just the gang violence. I would prefer, at least at first, to legalize some less harmful forms of amphetamines such as dexedrine and adderall, and hopefully tweakers would switch to those instead.
people should only be held back by law when they infringe on OTHER PEOPLES freedoms. So if somebody using meth causes damage to someone else by going into a violent rage, they get charged with assault, battery, and public intoxication, and what ever other crimes they committed. if someone else does meth and harms absolutely nobody but himself, then by all means, he has EVERY right to do so, since he is not infringing on any other persons rights.
peace
As I said, I would decriminalize all drugs, so someone with a small amount of meth for personal use would not be breaking any law. But I would rather not have legal manufacture of it so long as there are safer alternatives. At most, I could see legalizing it in a less potent pill form. Harm reduction should be key, and I think meth is dangerous enough that we ought to take extensive measures to try to reduce its use. It is socially corrosive in a much more serious way than just about any other drug I've ever seen.
Decriminalizing is like saying "we wont condem you for a little, but we'll fine you, and make you get it off the dirty streets". It's hypocrisy too. So few people use meth, compaired to other drugs, we are in no danger. Peeople say things like you say, assuming that more people will use it when it's legalized, and that alot of people use it now. And it's like I said, society is an illusion for marketing. As long as the basic framework is as we have it, then those who want money will work for it, and those who don't will live on our streets or find some other way to survive.
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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)
Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: DieCommie]
#10083243 - 03/31/09 08:21 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
No, I dont. Meth poses a personal health hazard only.
A person has the right to take whatever substance they want, for health or for recreation. I think even prescriptions in general are an affront to my inalienable rights. I shouldn't have to get a doctor's or government's permission to take what I want.
exactly
Agreed on all counts.
If we want long prison sentences for people that harm others, even ludicrously long ones, that is an option (i.e. people who commit assaults or steal on drugs or whatever). What isn't an option is taking from a person their body or property when they've caused no harm to anyone.
Taking drugs is not a crime.
Wiccan: How is meth use a public health issue and what are you referring to? Meth should be easier or harder to get? The only person I know that uses it had trouble getting it, so maybe that's the problem? Should it be stocked in more pharmacies or soemthing?
Whatever "public health" is, it surely cannot be the most terrible of utlitarian arguments: that we must sacrifice the rights of one for the rights of many, can it? Or even worse: the rights of many for the convieniance of some?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10083257 - 03/31/09 08:24 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kada said:
If all drugs were legal i wouldn't touch meth anyways. I would go get some good cocaine at cheap ass prices. Imagine doing a line of cocaine a pharm company made for personal use. Oh man who the fuck would want meth anyways with professional grade cocaine.
That's kind of my hope. I'd rather people look to somewhat less destructive stimulants than do meth. Maybe people would do that anyway if all drugs including meth were legal, but I rather legalize those other drugs first before considering legalizing meth. That's basically my angle: Legalize the less harmful alternatives first, and then see if there's a need to legalize the more harmful ones. I'd rather try a more cautious approach than just legalizing everything all at once.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10083276 - 03/31/09 08:27 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kada said: If all drugs were legal i wouldn't touch meth anyways. I would go get some good cocaine at cheap ass prices. Imagine doing a line of cocaine a pharm company made for personal use. Oh man who the fuck would want meth anyways with professional grade cocaine.
Seriously? I've heard that meth pwns cocaine not only in terms of effect but in duration.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: johnm214]
#10083726 - 03/31/09 09:30 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
How is meth use a public health issue
Meth tends to make a significant percentage of its users act out in irresponsible or violent manners. A city in which more meth is used, tends to be a more dangerous city to live in.
That said I want all drugs legalized, but regulated. People bent on taking em should get access, but it shouldnt be dangled in front of people, such as no heroin newspaper ads and cocaine vending machines.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10083827 - 03/31/09 09:44 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: A city in which more meth is used, tends to be a more dangerous city to live in.
But the real question is whether legalization would incite more people to use the drug, especially when a proper public safety campaign is run that lays out the dangers.
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: People bent on taking em should get access, but it shouldnt be dangled in front of people, such as no heroin newspaper ads and cocaine vending machines.
But that's inevitable; just look at the alcohol and tobacco companies. It's the nature of capitalism to want to market a product; the question is whether or not we can educate the populace sufficiently to know the risks they're undergoing when they decide to partake in these addictive drugs.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10083984 - 03/31/09 10:07 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
But that's inevitable; just look at the alcohol and tobacco companies. It's the nature of capitalism to want to market a product; the question is whether or not we can educate the populace sufficiently to know the risks they're undergoing when they decide to partake in these addictive drugs.
Not if you have a government monopoly on those drugs. Just have a requirement that all manufacturers and distributors be licensed by the government. Then you can set whatever requirements necessary to keep it out of the public eye.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10083991 - 03/31/09 10:09 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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What's to prevent people from making their own stills and growing their own tobacco? The domestic and black markets have always successfully flourished despite any governmental prohibitions.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10084014 - 03/31/09 10:14 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
What's to prevent people from making their own stills and growing their own tobacco?
I'm mainly talking about manufactured drugs, not natural drugs. But anyway, you can set prices below the market value,thus preventing a black market from occurring. Even if there was a black market, you wouldn't see dealers advertising on TV and billboards if they're doing something illegal.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10084043 - 03/31/09 10:17 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: But anyway, you can set prices below the market value,thus preventing a black market from occurring.
Presuming the government enacts these restrictions on free enterprise? Any federal inhibitions of free enterprise make me innately uneasy; more potentially oppressive power against the autonomy of an individual taking responsibility for his or her business is yet more restriction of my freedom.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 4,401
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10084126 - 03/31/09 10:26 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Talking about manufactured drugs/pharm ,its only 5000 dollars a month for organ transplant medication you have to take for the rest of your life if you ever need a organ transplant.
I dont think you could snort or smoke that much a month of any drug. My point being I think the pharms would love the health issues that arose from legal hard drugs.People would be burning up livers and kidneys left and right,liquor burns the liver right out of ya.I cant imagine what all these other drugs do,since there have not really been any studies to determine how bad they affect you health wise ,they just look at the stats of people who admit to using a certain drug.
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I love our leaders and the feds ,they are great people and the laws they make help us!
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10084139 - 03/31/09 10:28 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: But anyway, you can set prices below the market value,thus preventing a black market from occurring.
Presuming the government enacts these restrictions on free enterprise? Any federal inhibitions of free enterprise make me innately uneasy; more potentially oppressive power against the autonomy of an individual taking responsibility for his or her business is yet more restriction of my freedom.
Well, that's just a philosophical difference where we'll have to agree to disagree. I view the free market as a means to an end, and nothing to be valued in and of itself. Just as I wouldn't want to have a free market in nuclear materials, I wouldn't want an unrestricted free market in the most dangerous drugs.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10084193 - 03/31/09 10:35 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: Just as I wouldn't want to have a free market in nuclear materials, I wouldn't want an unrestricted free market in the most dangerous drugs.
I think the crux of the issue is whether or not you can trust the individual to make a responsible decision; either in the case of personal choice for ingestion of a substance or personal choice to handle nuclear material without hurting others. Presuming a well-established education and social system that teaches kids culpability for their actions, we shouldn't need to establish a legal system that is somehow superior to individuals even though the shared foundation for the system is fundamentally human and fundamentally fallible. Pardon me if I wax exceedingly anarchistic here; I would far rather prefer a system that leaves open the possibility for individual humans to suffer a lapse in judgment than a system that renders the individual as fundamentally inferior to society.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10084203 - 03/31/09 10:36 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I think the crux of the issue is whether or not you can trust the individual to make a responsible decision
If we could always trust individuals to make responsible decisions, we wouldn't government.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Silversoul]
#10084217 - 03/31/09 10:38 PM (15 years, 19 days ago) |
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Is that the fault of human nature or the fault of an inadequate societal impetus towards proper instillation of honorable values, though?
It's really quite an interesting question that's at the heart of any kind of fundamental moral philosophy I think. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10094150 - 04/02/09 01:02 PM (15 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
How is meth use a public health issue
Meth tends to make a significant percentage of its users act out in irresponsible or violent manners. A city in which more meth is used, tends to be a more dangerous city to live in.
That said I want all drugs legalized, but regulated. People bent on taking em should get access, but it shouldnt be dangled in front of people, such as no heroin newspaper ads and cocaine vending machines.
Lovely.
Not a big free speech guy I guess?
Please explain what you'd "let" me say before you lock me in jail or do whatever unpleasant thing you would be doing to enforce your distaste of particular ideas.
And why would you base a conclusion on a correlation? Do you have some evidence that meth is actually a danger to uninvolved people to any signifigant degree? And what is this "irresponsible" manner you're referring to?
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druqs
ALKALOIDOHOLIC
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 8,862
Last seen: 6 months, 22 days
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10094486 - 04/02/09 01:57 PM (15 years, 17 days ago) |
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all of them woldwide. just to see what happens to the human race. 
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: johnm214]
#10094628 - 04/02/09 02:15 PM (15 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lovely.
Not a big free speech guy I guess?
Please explain what you'd "let" me say before you lock me in jail or do whatever unpleasant thing you would be doing to enforce your distaste of particular ideas.
What the hell?
Whats that have to do with this?
Quote:
Meth tends to make a significant percentage of its users act out in irresponsible or violent manners. A city in which more meth is used, tends to be a more dangerous city to live in.
That said I want all drugs legalized, but regulated. People bent on taking em should get access, but it shouldnt be dangled in front of people, such as no heroin newspaper ads and cocaine vending machines.
What has me legalizing all drugs to do with putting you in jail for speaking your mind?
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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JesusYodiHomeboy
Dimension Hopper
Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 625
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Asante]
#10424412 - 05/30/09 09:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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There should also be some age-restrictions (obviously) if we're being serious about the topic. Marijuana should be something like a 25+ type of drug. (of course then again i couldn't imagine years 14-18 without it). so uhh, kids 14-18 can do it, then they gotta wait until they're like fuckin thirty. a sound plan
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She's well acquainted with the touch of the velvet hand
Like a lizard on a window pane
The man in the crowd with the multicoloured mirrors
On his hobnail boots
Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy working overtime
A soap impression of his wife which he ate
And donated to the National Trust
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 28 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: JesusYodiHomeboy]
#10424501 - 05/30/09 10:15 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Making cannabis a controlled substance was just a stupid fucking idea in the first place and was done so for evil purposes. There should be no regulation at all for it, and anyone able to roll their own joint should be able to smoke it. I should be able to grow it in my backyard like I do with my hedges.
A man should be able to grow his own drugs if he wants to. I don't care about taxing and regulating it at all, i just care about getting high on my own supply legally.
My back yard would be cannabis and poppy plants galore. It would be heaven on earth.    
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10424509 - 05/30/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kada said: My back yard would be cannabis and poppy plants galore.
You can ration yourself with opiates? I know after a certain point my garden would become decimated to feed my constant necessity for opium. 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 28 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424544 - 05/30/09 10:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I keep to a strict 3 day rule. I never do opiates more than 3 days in a row, then i take at least a 3 day break. I refuse to allow myself to become dependent on any drug other than caffeine ever again. I went through hell figuring out the power and addictiveness of opiates should be respected.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10424552 - 05/30/09 10:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good to hear. I try to keep my opiate use to no more than once a week; I've read that once you cross the line into daily use you're pretty much fucked.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Kada
Asha'man
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 12,395
Loc: Buckeye
Last seen: 28 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424604 - 05/30/09 10:40 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is sooo correct. I was on pain killers for 3 years for back problems, and i was hooked big time. I didn't smoke weed at the time at all, i just popped pills all day long and sat around. I gained so much weight, i never went out, and all i did was play online games. My work almost fired me because of my mood swings, and because i was strung out all the time.
I went back to weed and didn't touch any form of opiate until about 6 months ago. Now i just keep pods around for days that i want to nod in opiate bliss. I usually wait until im having a really bad day with my arthritis, or if i have nothing at all to do but go on a nice walk.
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~The Cultivators Motherload~ "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama Live long and prosper.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10424761 - 05/30/09 11:15 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Marijuana, LSD and Mushrooms are all I care about. People can put whatever they want in their bodies, but the rest are pretty much death sentences waiting to happen.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424771 - 05/30/09 11:19 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rocker232 said: People can put whatever they want in their bodies, but the rest are pretty much death sentences waiting to happen.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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joe Biggs
Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: learningtofly]
#10424773 - 05/30/09 11:19 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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ALL DRUGS SHOULD BE REGULATED.
prohibition doesnt work and individuals have the right over there own body.
but definably legalize the herb.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424781 - 05/30/09 11:21 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Rocker232 said: People can put whatever they want in their bodies, but the rest are pretty much death sentences waiting to happen.
I wish I had the ability to see past the amount of deaths I've seen due to them. No evidence or statistics change it. I'm sorry I cannot open my eyes as wide as you.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424795 - 05/30/09 11:26 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm sorry, but to say that any drug besides LSD and Shrooms causes an extravagant amount of deaths is retarded. There are plenty of other healthy entheogens: RCs, HBWR seeds, morning glories, Amanita Muscaria, Ayahuasca, DMT, Salvia, the list goes on...
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424809 - 05/30/09 11:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I'm sorry, but to say that any drug besides LSD and Shrooms causes an extravagant amount of deaths is retarded. There are plenty of other healthy entheogens: RCs, HBWR seeds, morning glories, Amanita Muscaria, Ayahuasca, DMT, Salvia, the list goes on...
Oh obviously. I am an advocate of any Psychedelic. I plan to use a lot of them. I am moreso throwing jabs at Heroin, Coke, Meth, Painkillers etc
I wish I could have an open mind about them, but all I ever see attached to them is despair and death.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424817 - 05/30/09 11:31 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, I still think that some responsible users of coke, heroin, etcetera exist but a lot more people end up using 'em irresponsibly.
Heroin's reputation in particular seems to be commonly overexaggerated:
Quote:
The fact that heroin use is so rare -- involving, according to the government's data, something like 0.2 percent of the U.S. population in 2001 -- suggests that its appeal is much more limited than we've been led to believe. If heroin really is "so good," why does it have such a tiny share of the illegal drug market? Marijuana is more than 45 times as popular. The National Household Survey on Drug Abuse indicates that about 3 million Americans have used heroin in their lifetimes; of them, 15 percent had used it in the last year, 4 percent in the last month. These numbers suggest that the vast majority of heroin users either never become addicted or, if they do, manage to give the drug up. A survey of high school seniors found that 1 percent had used heroin in the previous year, while 0.1 percent had used it on 20 or more days in the previous month. Assuming that daily use is a reasonable proxy for opiate addiction, one in 10 of the students who had taken heroin in the last year might have qualified as addicts. These are not the sort of numbers you'd expect for a drug that's irresistible.
True, these surveys exclude certain groups in which heroin use is more common and in which a larger percentage of users probably could be described as addicts. The household survey misses people living on the street, in prisons, and in residential drug treatment programs, while the high school survey leaves out truants and dropouts. But even for the entire population of heroin users, the estimated addiction rates do not come close to matching heroin's reputation. A 1976 study by the drug researchers Leon G. Hunt and Carl D. Chambers estimated there were 3 or 4 million heroin users in the United States, perhaps 10 percent of them addicts. "Of all active heroin users," Hunt and Chambers wrote, "a large majority are not addicts: they are not physically or socially dysfunctional; they are not daily users and they do not seem to require treatment." A 1994 study based on data from the National Comorbidity Survey estimated that 23 percent of heroin users ever experience substance dependence.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424842 - 05/30/09 11:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you live in an area where Heroin is the main party drug of choice? As I said, statistics mean nothing to me, they do not change my own experience. My best friend's younger sister OD'ed on Heroin and ever since then (and probably before it) I see the drug as something with no positive outcomes. Its taken away friends, friends of friends, musicians etc
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424857 - 05/30/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know quite a few people who have succumbed to heroin addiction, but I also know a few people who are capable of responsible use with it (myself included). I just don't think it's fair to make blanket generalizations that heroin is a BAD, BAD drug and should never be used.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs
Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
Loc: Feels Changsta Man
Last seen: 3 days, 14 hours
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424862 - 05/30/09 11:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think they all should be legal.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: I AM SWIM]
#10424866 - 05/30/09 11:45 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said:
I think they all should be legal.
Legal to 18 or 21+, for sure.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424881 - 05/30/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I know quite a few people who have succumbed to heroin addiction, but I also know a few people who are capable of responsible use with it (myself included). I just don't think it's fair to make blanket generalizations that heroin is a BAD, BAD drug and should never be used.
In a world where the average person was intelligence and responsible, sure. Where are these people though? I respect you for being able to use it and not abuse it, but where are the others like you? A handful of people being able to does not make up for the general whole that cannot.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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Legalize
Metalhead
Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 2,026
Loc: USA
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424887 - 05/30/09 11:49 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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There is only two realistic options.
Either legalize everything, or only legalize shit that the earth grows, and no controlled substances that come from a plant (Heroin, cocaine). Even though I do both heroin and coke I just know it wouldn't be good to legalize and make it readily available for the public.
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Opiate free since 8/26/10
Opiate free since 6/22/11 
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424891 - 05/30/09 11:50 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rocker232 said:
A handful of people being able to does not make up for the general whole that cannot.
From that quote I just posted:
Quote:
A 1976 study by the drug researchers Leon G. Hunt and Carl D. Chambers estimated there were 3 or 4 million heroin users in the United States, perhaps 10 percent of them addicts. "Of all active heroin users," Hunt and Chambers wrote, "a large majority are not addicts: they are not physically or socially dysfunctional; they are not daily users and they do not seem to require treatment."
Seems a majority of heroin users are capable of being responsible.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Rocker232
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 6,631
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: deCypher]
#10424936 - 05/30/09 11:59 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Rocker232 said:
A handful of people being able to does not make up for the general whole that cannot.
From that quote I just posted:
Quote:
A 1976 study by the drug researchers Leon G. Hunt and Carl D. Chambers estimated there were 3 or 4 million heroin users in the United States, perhaps 10 percent of them addicts. "Of all active heroin users," Hunt and Chambers wrote, "a large majority are not addicts: they are not physically or socially dysfunctional; they are not daily users and they do not seem to require treatment."
Seems a majority of heroin users are capable of being responsible.
I don't really see what business a statistic from 1976 has in this topic. This study is over 40 years old, you don't think the world has changed since 1976?
And even still, that's 400,000 people who are not benefiting from the drug, but are experiencing the negative side of it. Pretty large number.
Its just hard for me to see a statistic and see past human faces. All the people I know that use coke and heroin are JUNKIES. They go on and on about how long they have been clean, 2 weeks, 1 week, 5 days and then they are right back to doing it. Marijuana is a drug that should be legal, it has very few negative side effects and is not fatal.
But once again, no discredit to you guys who can do it responsibly. That's awesome for you to be able to experience the drug and not be its slave. Responsibility is not the norm though and that goes with anything. Most people I know that smoke are potheads. Most people I know that drink are alcoholics. Maybe I have just seen more the ugly and not the pretty, but that's been the case with my life.
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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Rocker232]
#10424979 - 05/30/09 12:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, I've been trying to find more up-to-date statistics but haven't had much luck yet. It's hard to filter through all the DEA propaganda.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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astronaut
ascetic aesthetic
Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 1,013
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Which of these drugs would you LEGALIZE, and which not? [Re: Kada]
#10425024 - 05/30/09 12:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would legalize the use of all drugs. That is not to say that some aren't harmful, but I see it as a health issue and not a legal one. I would legalize the production of all non-addictive drugs and regulate and tax them. I would keep the clandestine manufacture and distribution of addictive drugs illegal (with additional penalties for selling to minors), and set up medical clinics across the country where addicts can safely dose.
As for certain drugs like meth inducing violent headspaces, in my experience that observation is in large part a confusing of correlation and of causation; many of those to whom meth is appealing or worth breaking the law, are violent when sober as well. And furthermore, I don't see meth as any more dangerous in this regard than alcohol.
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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face:
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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