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Offlinevideoscop
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what is wrong with my casing ?
    #10075114 - 03/30/09 04:56 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)




Those are my first casing experiment.
At the right, I used vermiculite and brown rice flour and made cake. Then i break into pieces with my hand. In aluminium tray , I put perlite at bottom, cake pieces in middle and casing layer to top.

At the left, I used rye grain, perlite and casing layer.

I did rye grain case at one day advantage.

I put both of them in the cultivator about 2 days then to the terrarium. ( 1 week ago )
Humidity of terrarium : %95
Temperature of terrarium : 74-78 F

With vermiculite method ,I have pinheads and some growing mushrooms.
With rye grain method, I have some (look like) solid white things.

So, If anyone can help me, I would be appreciated, what is wrong with rye grain casing. Should ý cover those white thing with more casing layer? Should I wait more? Anything ?

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InvisibleDZ
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10075213 - 03/30/09 05:12 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

videoscop said:



Those are my first casing experiment.
At the right, I used vermiculite and brown rice flour and made cake. Then i break into pieces with my hand. In aluminium tray , I put perlite at bottom, cake pieces in middle and casing layer to top.





A perlite layer on the bottom is considered useless and often harmful since it doesn't contain nutrients it can harbor contams that can't be seen until too late. Read around thats the general consensus.

Humidity sounds good, so long as hygrometer is working correctly. You can tell by the amount of water vapors or droplets on the sides of your FC. Water vapors will begin to form on the sides on the FC at 99%+.
Make sure fresh air exchange is good, and
make sure they're getting approx. 12on/12off of good light.

Those are the first things I would check.

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Invisiblerustypan
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: DZ]
    #10075249 - 03/30/09 05:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aarondezern said:
Quote:

videoscop said:



Those are my first casing experiment.
At the right, I used vermiculite and brown rice flour and made cake. Then i break into pieces with my hand. In aluminium tray , I put perlite at bottom, cake pieces in middle and casing layer to top.





A perlite layer on the bottom is considered useless and often harmful since it doesn't contain nutrients it can harbor contams that can't be seen until too late. Read around thats the general consensus.

Humidity sounds good, so long as hygrometer is working correctly. You can tell by the amount of water vapors or droplets on the sides of your FC. Water vapors will begin to form on the sides on the FC at 99%+.
Make sure fresh air exchange is good, and
make sure they're getting approx. 12on/12off of good light.

Those are the first things I would check.



He misspoke if you read further in his post. He said perlite at first then vermiculite later.


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InvisibleDZ
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: rustypan]
    #10075352 - 03/30/09 05:31 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe he did each casing differently, either way no bottom layer is necessary.

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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: DZ]
    #10075365 - 03/30/09 05:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)








I believe hygrometer working correctly. There are about 60 holes around the FC. 2 inches perlite on the bottom. The window of the backyard about 2 meters far away.

I think everything is OK. What my suspect is, rye grain casing would produce pin heads and when?

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Offlinetranskei
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10075649 - 03/30/09 06:16 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I would get that thing out of there and move you question to contamination forum, it looks bad.

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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: transkei]
    #10075796 - 03/30/09 06:41 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I do not think that it is contamination. I believe it could not jump to pinhead stage. But I am not sure.

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InvisibleDZ
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10075823 - 03/30/09 06:45 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

thats a closer pic and it looks more like a contam up close. I would get it away from my others to help prevent cross contamination, just to be safe, and toss it if it gets any worse. It looks either like it started fruiting and then dried out or it's contam'd.

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InvisiblePeterthinks
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10076133 - 03/30/09 07:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:










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--------------------
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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: Peterthinks]
    #10078413 - 03/31/09 03:23 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I don't get it!

I had contamination experienced and observing that contam grows so fast.
I looked closer to my casing this morning and found 1 pinhead just beside the casing side. I am not sure it is alive or not.

I really don't think that it is contam. At the closer picture, I used flash light and maybe shadows looks like a contam.

On the other hand, drying should not be an option. I have another casing and a cake at the same FC and no problem at all.

It is strange for me because i did everything as I told and only have problem with the rye grain casing. I could not figure out what did I wrong or did I ?

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InvisibleDZ
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10078776 - 03/31/09 06:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

It's hard to tell without knowing every step you did, but bluing is very often a lack of moisture. My friend can tell if his cakes are bluing by dehydration or bluing by contam by picking it up and comparing it to ones that arent bluing. It should feel noticeably lighter in weight, if it is lacking moisture.

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: DZ]
    #10078812 - 03/31/09 07:05 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

aarondezern said:
Quote:

videoscop said:



Those are my first casing experiment.
At the right, I used vermiculite and brown rice flour and made cake. Then i break into pieces with my hand. In aluminium tray , I put perlite at bottom, cake pieces in middle and casing layer to top.





A perlite layer on the bottom is considered useless and often harmful since it doesn't contain nutrients it can harbor contams that can't be seen until too late. Read around thats the general consensus.

Humidity sounds good, so long as hygrometer is working correctly. You can tell by the amount of water vapors or droplets on the sides of your FC. Water vapors will begin to form on the sides on the FC at 99%+.
Make sure fresh air exchange is good, and
make sure they're getting approx. 12on/12off of good light.

Those are the first things I would check.




I cant believe people are still spreading that myth that humidity can be gauged by water droplets on the walls, which is complelty untrue. You cannot judge humidity by eye. it was even disproved by someone posting a monotub and asking what the rh was based on all the water droplets. There was a lot on condensation on the walls. What was the rh, it was 86 i think.

Condensation on teh walls, indicate a temperature difference between the inside and the outside, when its warmer on the inside than the outside, the walls of the fruiting chamber will be cooling, which will condense water out of the air.



The the OP, you shouldnt use anything in the bottom of your trays.  When you fruit cakes as cakes, you dont sit them directly on the perlite, why you you do it in trays?? a bottom layer will encourage pinning where you cant tend to it. Neither perlite or vermiculatie should be used.

Those casing layers look very odd. The one on the left looks ok, except part of it looks like cobweb, the one on the right just looks plain nasty and the mushroom thats growing just doesnt look too healthy.


is that 50/50+ - peat/verm/lime??? and did you pasturise it. I hope it wasnt sterilised


--------------------

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Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10078846 - 03/31/09 07:21 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

When you crumble or spawn to bulk you need to give it 7-10 days to recover from the trauma.

That left pic looks very odd, that growth doesn't look right but you didn't mention what species you're growing.  If those are cubensis I'd be worried.


--------------------
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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10078853 - 03/31/09 07:23 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Spongiform said:
When you crumble or spawn to bulk you need to give it 7-10 days to recover from the trauma.

That left pic looks very odd, that growth doesn't look right but you didn't mention what species you're growing.  If those are cubensis I'd be worried.





I dont think they are spawned to bulk, just crumbled and cased.

I agree the the myc popping through the casing layer looks very odd. usually after casing, you let incubate for a few days until myc pops through the casing layer then patch and into fruiting


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10079270 - 03/31/09 09:39 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

OK, I try to answer every question as I can.

Quote:

veda_sticks said:

I cant believe people are still spreading that myth that humidity can be gauged by water droplets on the walls, which is complelty untrue. You cannot judge humidity by eye. it was even disproved by someone posting a monotub and asking what the rh was based on all the water droplets. There was a lot on condensation on the walls. What was the rh, it was 86 i think.

Condensation on teh walls, indicate a temperature difference between the inside and the outside, when its warmer on the inside than the outside, the walls of the fruiting chamber will be cooling, which will condense water out of the air.

The the OP, you shouldnt use anything in the bottom of your trays.  When you fruit cakes as cakes, you dont sit them directly on the perlite, why you you do it in trays?? a bottom layer will encourage pinning where you cant tend to it. Neither perlite or vermiculatie should be used.

Those casing layers look very odd. The one on the left looks ok, except part of it looks like cobweb, the one on the right just looks plain nasty and the mushroom thats growing just doesnt look too healthy.

is that 50/50+ - peat/verm/lime??? and did you pasturise it. I hope it wasnt sterilised




Information about the hýhumadity helps me to better understand. But I also use hydrometer. It says humidity is %95 in FC.

I used perlite at the bottom as water reservoir. I used it because , I start cultivating from a grow kit which I bought from Amsterdam and the kit had bottom layer. I decided to use as well...but will never used again...

I was thinking the right one is the healthy one. :smile:

After 3-4 days in FC, i realized that I put casing layer very tight. With a sterile tool, I dig the surface of the layer a little bit to obtain fresh air better. That is why it looks plain nasty.

I put some new pictures of the mushrooms and expecting an explanation what symptoms considered that they are not healthy.



Cobweb, I am not clear about that. Cobweb is the big white solid thing or smtg else ?
And there is another picture shows a little pinhead ( the only I have on that casing ) ...


For casing layer preparation, ý used Poul Statements recipe. 10 part Vermiculite, 10 part peat moss, 1 part gypsum, 1 part calcium carbonate. And I pasteurize it , not sterilized. :smile:

Quote:

aarondezern said:
It's hard to tell without knowing every step you did, but bluing is very often a lack of moisture. My friend can tell if his cakes are bluing by dehydration or bluing by contam by picking it up and comparing it to ones that aren't bluing. It should feel noticeably lighter in weight, if it is lacking moisture.




I do not seen any bluing with my eyes. I believe that in the picture there is a little bit color difference.

Quote:

Spongiform said:
When you crumble or spawn to bulk you need to give it 7-10 days to recover from the trauma.

That left pic looks very odd, that growth doesn't look right but you didn't mention what species you're growing.  If those are cubensis I'd be worried.




The species I grow are cubensis....( Spores come from Golden Teacher kit )
After I crumbled the jar, I made my casing and give them 3 days total darkness at incubator. For rye grain, obviously it is not enough.


Incubation period took very long time for my first growing. I could not arrange temperature regularly. some short period temperature reach 100 F, and down to 70 F. After about 1 and half month, I succeeded to fix temperature between 74-78 F in the incubator.

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10079381 - 03/31/09 10:05 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Here's what cobweb looks like, side by side with regular mycelium.



Those large growths, maybe they're mutants?  Definitely odd.


--------------------
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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: Spongiform]
    #10081063 - 03/31/09 03:14 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

OK, I am sure it is not cobweb.

I took a sample of the white solid thing and it looks, feels, smells like fresh mushroom.

In any case, I drop water carefully inside of the casing. Replace them for lighting conditions.

Still have only one pinhead... If nothing happens, i will cover those white thing with more casing layer then wait again.

On the other hand, mushrooms on the right casing are healthy or not. Can anybody tell me about it ?

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InvisibleDZ
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10082020 - 03/31/09 05:35 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:

I cant believe people are still spreading that myth that humidity can be gauged by water droplets on the walls, which is complelty untrue. You cannot judge humidity by eye. it was even disproved by someone posting a monotub and asking what the rh was based on all the water droplets. There was a lot on condensation on the walls. What was the rh, it was 86 i think.

Condensation on teh walls, indicate a temperature difference between the inside and the outside, when its warmer on the inside than the outside, the walls of the fruiting chamber will be cooling, which will condense water out of the air.





Well here is my point of view, and if it doesn't seem logical, then please tell explain it so I can understand what's going on.

When I first begin to humidify my greenhouse, I turn my ultrasonic(which has an adequate condensation filter. ie, 3 coke bottles) on full strength and I monitor my humidity. I can recall starting in the 50-60% range before and it seemed to take maybe 45-60 minutes to reach 99%(give or take a few hours, that's right i time travel sometimes), but there is never any mist or fog anywhere inside until after my hygrometer reads 99%,

I see a strong correlation with a mist-like condensation on the inner walls of my greenhouse(maybe even a small amount of small droplets on the inner wall also) and 99%+ humidity. There may be a scientific way to prove this or it may just be a reliable correlation that works for me but either way it isn't a myth for me but it may need to be explained differently.

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Offlinevideoscop
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: DZ]
    #10086676 - 04/01/09 11:38 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

OK, here it is first flush. I believe they are ready for harvest.


I am happy to get that.

But I still have a problem with the other casing. I noticed that bluish color on the white solid things and casing layer. According to replys, I understand it is sign of lack of moisture.  I start spraying today. ( I did not know that I should spray everyday. I was thinking that bottom layer of perlite was enough. )


I count 5 pinhead today. I stop hoping to get fruit from that casing but I will be waiting to see what is gonna happen.

If any idea about the casing that is not fruiting ( and what is that solid thing , what should I do, should I took them off ? ) and any comment of my mushies, I would be glad....

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Offlineskattman1982
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Re: what is wrong with my casing ? [Re: videoscop]
    #10087034 - 04/01/09 12:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

it is not cobweb. the large white areas on the one casing are STROMA. they are mycelial networks are are ok to harvest and dry. they are caused by waiting too long to fruit your casing and improper RH which causes fruiting issues.

try lowering rh and fanning more. they will fruit but will take more time. alternatively pick them and lightly patch then put back into fruiting conditions. they are not contams.

you are using casings so you do not need quite as high of rh since the casing acts as a moisture layer. only 90-95% is necessary and you can err to 80-85%

edit  you should correct whatever environmental factors are causing the stroma as this could be a prelude to overlay


--------------------
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by the way, everything i write is for entertainment purposes and is purely fictional. do not construe these written words with the author having any knowledge of actual persons, places, events, or actions.

Edited by skattman1982 (04/01/09 12:58 PM)

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