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awesomebastard
Lost



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
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Allah and the Tetragrammaton.
#10069660 - 03/29/09 08:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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So I had a private conversation with the puppet of a member that I gave a zero rating to and I realized I never brought it to P&S even though it is worthy of a thread IMO. -------------------------------------------------------------------------
In either case God is omnipotent and omniscient.
It creates us with urges, and then commands us not to follow them.
If one breaks these commands they are punished with an iron fist and if unrepentant punished for all eternity.
Now we can get further into the issue with the childlike jealousy that these deities display.
With Judaism, Christianity and Islam non-believers are rejected by God and often punished (depending on who you talk to).
Also in both cases these deities feel that we owe them, for no other reason other than giving us life (which we never asked for).
Now I realize that many of you are unwavering atheists, but I ask you for a moment to pretend that this is truth.
My question to you is if Allah or the Judeo-Christian god were real, do they deserve our worship?
Are believers actually all just cowards afraid of eternal damnation?
Do people just worship out of fear or can humans actually love such a tyrannous deity?
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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spyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
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awesomebastard
Lost



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: spyder]
#10070140 - 03/29/09 09:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ah, The only accurate answer to any philosophical question but it doesn't make for a very interesting conversation.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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spyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
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Atheists discussing the illogical points of religion never makes for interesting conversation.
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awesomebastard
Lost



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Posts: 4,891
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: spyder]
#10070261 - 03/29/09 09:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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These are not necessarily illogical.
How can you claim that the behavior of an omniscient/omnipotent being is illogical?
Do you understand their intentions?
This is not about disproving religion, and I don't necessarily dismiss any of these beliefs.
It is just about the question.
In ones opinion do they deserve worship, given their nature and our nature.
The first part of the post was all about my opinion on the matter. I dont see them as saviors worthy of praise I see them as enemies of mankind.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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teeter
Mindfucked



Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,092
Loc: Philadelphia PA
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: spyder]
#10070279 - 03/29/09 09:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ill break this into three parts since you basically asked three questions.
1.) God doesn't deserve our worship because he is a hypocritical and irrational dumbass. Who creates something one way and then forces it to function in another. If this god were a person, they would probably be institutionalized. However if we assume that this is the true nature of God, I would worship it because I don't want to burn in hell.
2.) Believer's today are cowards afraid of the unknown, they flock to these religions because they are afraid of not knowing what lies after death and they want to believe that it is a utopia ruled by a man on a throne (god). Eternal damnation is just a construct of the church in order to keep the population well behaved. However, if you assume that the christian god is the true god, then it is not cowardice to worship. If hell truly exists then trying to stay out of it isn't cowardly, its smart.
3.) Humans would worship completely out of fear. If I knew it was true without a doubt that the christian god was real, I would would kiss his ass my whole life to get into heaven. I'm sure some retardly delusional humans would worship with love, but 99% of us would worship to stay on god's good side.
I think the point you are trying to make is that christians are idiotic sheep who worship out of fear. They are dumb enough to believe the illogical points in the bible and they believe the bible out of fear of eternal damnation. In the context in which you posed this, I see the same thing except that people would not be idiotic cowards for worshipping this god. IMO saving your sould from eternal damnation is worth ~80 years of cowardly worship.
-------------------- "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake "Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das
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awesomebastard
Lost



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: teeter]
#10070307 - 03/29/09 09:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
teeter said: IMO saving your sould from eternal damnation is worth ~80 years of cowardly worship.
All great points however do you think you could keep up an eternity of cowardly worship because according to my understanding heaven is just life eternal in the presence of God.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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spyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
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Quote:
awesomebastard said: I dont see them as saviors worthy of praise I see them as enemies of mankind.
Then kill them.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Any God that damns me to eternal hellfire and damnation if I don't worship Him is a God that does not deserve worship.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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teeter
Mindfucked



Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,092
Loc: Philadelphia PA
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Quote:
awesomebastard said:
Quote:
teeter said: IMO saving your sould from eternal damnation is worth ~80 years of cowardly worship.
All great points however do you think you could keep up an eternity of cowardly worship because according to my understanding heaven is just life eternal in the presence of God.
Whoops! Didn't think of that. Fuck it, I'd burn in hell with satan. Maybe if I went to hell on purpose satan wouldn't be too hard on me.
-------------------- "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake "Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das
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awesomebastard
Lost



Registered: 12/16/07
Posts: 4,891
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: spyder]
#10070357 - 03/29/09 09:39 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
spyder said:
Quote:
awesomebastard said: I dont see them as saviors worthy of praise I see them as enemies of mankind.
Then kill them.
I believe Lucifer already attempted this and failed.
However, perhaps with our help.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Quote:
awesomebastard said: My question to you is if Allah or the Judeo-Christian god were real, do they deserve our worship?
Of course not. Obviously, I could never tell how I would be if I had these beliefs for a lifetime, but I can surely know how I would feel and act about it with who I am right now.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: MushroomTrip]
#10072065 - 03/30/09 03:33 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here is a question for all god fearers:
Why does god create people that he knows will go to hell?
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PsychoChipmunk
Small, Furry, Disturbed

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 389
Loc: A hole in your back yard
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: Noteworthy]
#10074045 - 03/30/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said: Here is a question for all god fearers:
Why does god create people that he knows will go to hell?
Some sort of sick joke between higher beings?
-------------------- \m/
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teeter
Mindfucked



Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 1,092
Loc: Philadelphia PA
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: Noteworthy]
#10074763 - 03/30/09 04:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said: Here is a question for all god fearers:
Why does god create people that he knows will go to hell?
That is how we know that the guys who created the bible were some of the dumbest people in the history of mankind. They couldn't even create a religion with a logical story.
-------------------- "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern." - William Blake "Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overlay was very profound." - Ram Das
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PsychoChipmunk
Small, Furry, Disturbed

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 389
Loc: A hole in your back yard
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: teeter]
#10074936 - 03/30/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Since when do religions make their case with logic?
-------------------- \m/
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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IT is about time. There is absolutely no reason that they shouldnt.
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spyder
Stranger

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 444
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Re: Allah and the Tetragrammaton. [Re: spyder]
#10075643 - 03/30/09 06:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
spyder said: Atheists discussing the illogical points of religion never makes for interesting conversation.
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