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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10075582 - 03/30/09 06:03 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

My Mom says I have to eat dinner now.  :frown:

Be back later.

The old cow.  :thumbdown:


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10075595 - 03/30/09 06:05 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Move out :grrr:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: deCypher]
    #10077398 - 03/30/09 10:26 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
An invisible pink unicorn cannot exist because it is an illogical entity.  Something cannot obtain a color and not have one.  The law of non-contradiction.  Now, if we're talking invisible unicorns, that's a horse of different color. :wink:




Well, although it's useful for logical purposes, the law of non-contradiction is inherently irrelevant to such things as the mystical experience.  Zen koans would be a good example; it is only by contemplating the Tao that both is and is not that one's mind is capable of breaking through the shallow tautologies of logic into pure Experience.




The law of contradiction is more than relevant to mysticism unless we do not care whether it is true or not.  Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight.  If we cannot test an experience or awareness of a specific spiritual truth within the framework of logic, we have no idea whether or not it is true or valid.  Zen koans are a good example of a religion trying to extricate itself from confines of that which is relevant at all places at all times.  By being, not only illogical, but making no sense it is non-sensical and nonsense.  Shallow tautologies?  Logic is the bedrock to make sense of the world, material, and immaterial.  Without it, we cannot know that which is true and that which is not.

And while such prose seeks to evidentiate the illogic of the invisible, pink unicorns they remain hoist by their own petard, and falsified.  Neat as a pin.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10077412 - 03/30/09 10:27 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Scientists, of whatever stripe, usually make poor philosophers.  So do most philosophers.



What makes a good philosopher?  What kind of ideology do they follow?




As a rough and general rule, I'd say they do not violate the laws of common sense.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10077427 - 03/30/09 10:29 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
Scientists, of whatever stripe, usually make poor philosophers.  So do most philosophers.



What makes a good philosopher?  What kind of ideology do they follow?




As a rough and general rule, I'd say they do not violate the laws of common sense.



Common sense is subjective.


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10077455 - 03/30/09 10:34 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

I'm afraid that no one here, as yet, as been able to sufficiently understand what constitutes subjectivity or objectivity.  I consider it a bane of the board.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10077472 - 03/30/09 10:36 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms said:
The law of contradication is more than relevant to mysticism unless we don't care whether it is true or not.  Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight.  If we cannot test an experience or awareness of a specific spiritual truth within the framework of logic we have no idea whether or not it is true or valid.  Zen koans are a good example of a religion trying to extricate itself from confines of that which is relevant at all places at all times.  By being, not only illogical, but making no sense it is non-sensical and nonsense.  Shallow tautologies?  Logic is the bedrock to make sense of the world, material, and immaterial.  Without it we cannot know that which is true and that which is not.




But where's the love, the feeling, the phenomenal Experience to be found amidst all this cold dead logic?  :tongue:


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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10077473 - 03/30/09 10:36 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Well then, an idea you may consider as common sense may not be common sense to the next person.  (thus being subjective)


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10077492 - 03/30/09 10:39 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

In that way, yes, that is correct.  However that wasn't what I had in mind when I said common sense.  Common sense, within our context, is something that doesn't automatically fail a test of logic.


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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10077509 - 03/30/09 10:41 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Subjective logic


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: deCypher]
    #10077515 - 03/30/09 10:44 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
But where's the love, the feeling, the phenomenal Experience to be found amidst all this cold dead logic?  :tongue:




That's a good question.  I've known many "disciples" who throw reason to the wind in the pursuit of a religious "feeling."  In my view, if you actually care to believe that which is true or a proximity thereof, you'll place those beliefs under the rubric of logic.  Feelings aren't my master; they come and go.  Logic remains.

:spock:


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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: The underlying reason [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #10077525 - 03/30/09 10:45 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Subjective logic




Would the opposite be objective nonsense?

I'm not sure of the point.


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