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InvisibleWorldWideWInton
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possible analog please help!!
    #10066608 - 03/29/09 01:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i have been thinking of ordering CP, 55490 from a RC supply company for a while now and i have heard the DEA or whoever is starting to  crack down on these mail order companies.  i dont feel like being hassled by the man to much so i have a question about its legality.  for those of you who dont know the analog act makes any substance whose chem structure is similar to a schedule 1 or 2 substance also illegal.  to my knowledge (witch is limited) THC is a schedule 3 substance (at least when in the scrip form of marinol).  cannabis on the other hand is a schedule 1.  since THC is the main active ingredient is cannabis would they consider any substance similar to THC an analog?  the pics of the chem structures is in my gallery i am still new here and still cant figure out how to post a pic..... maybe someday ill learn


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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10067182 - 03/29/09 02:49 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Open your gallery  (it says "pics" in the top left corner of this page when you're logged in)

Goto the picture, and theres a little text box with a UBB code underneath it...  click there, it'll auto-copy itself..  then paste the code in a reply here.

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InvisibleWorldWideWInton
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #10067264 - 03/29/09 02:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)




thank you very much 5 4 u!!!


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My past post are not necessarily reflections of my current opinions.

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InvisibleAyrios
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10067810 - 03/29/09 04:21 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What you probably heard was the recent UN press release saying they were going to start cracking down on mass international drug trade through consumer couriers.  This isn't really going to affect your small RC purchases, and with the economy what it is, the drug war is to a large degree stalled, so I wouldn't expect improved DEA efficiency, especially given the massive infrastructure changes that would be necessary to make a dent in it.

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InvisibleArden
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: Ayrios]
    #10099293 - 04/03/09 09:05 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

for those of you who dont know the analog act makes any substance whose chem structure is similar to a schedule 1 or 2 substance also illegal.




The problem is, discerning chemical resemblance is a completely arbitrary process that is up to the judgment of biased law enforcement. To say one molecule "looks" like another without defining specific criteria is extremely childish and clearly just another attempt to extend the power of the drug war.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10102158 - 04/03/09 07:09 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

While Hu-210 (the psychoactive cannabinoid in spice) falls under the analog act, others like HU-211 and CP55490 do not, according to the DEA.

See http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugs_concern/spice/index.html

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10102374 - 04/03/09 07:47 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Alan:

Where is the chemical the OP mentioned on that page? 



OP:

Like the other poster said, this is pretty difficult to analyze.


The law as written originally was completely ridiculous and unclear as to what the hell it even said.


Now it is somewhat clearer, but still difficult.  I believe the courts have required factors 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 for an analog to be found (the definitions of analog in the law- but I don't think there's anything actually holding that on the appellate leve)l.



Presuming its effects are sufficiently similar to THC's, it would seem to me it may be an analog.  You've got two carbons on the tail missing, but other than that its just a isopropyl group at the ether that's instead a propyl group that retains the oxygen and doesn't form an ether.


I mean like said previously, this whole thing is completely arbitrary, and if you want a better answer than this you'd need someone to do the research on what the courts have ruled and what the dea has ruled and break it down for you.  You could do that for us if you want a decent answer- just excerpt the relevant discusions on the chemistry and post the structures for us.


So my answer: could be and i think it likely is, but that's going off of memory so I may be mistaken in my recollections or be conflicting with DEA or court opinions.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: johnm214]
    #10104585 - 04/04/09 10:46 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Where is the chemical the OP mentioned on that page? 




Good point, its not on there.

Maybe it falls under the homologues of CP47497, its pretty similar to that.

Quote:

Now it is somewhat clearer, but still difficult.  I believe the courts have required factors 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 for an analog to be found




A good summary of the case law for the analog act is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_act

Its interesting to note that the DEA appears to be using an even more conservative approach to interpretation of the analog act than the courts did.  This would be a first for the DEA, they usually claim that the analog act covers everything and then backpedal from there.  Only one of the five THC-like chemicals discussed on this page fall under the analog act according to the DEA people who wrote that page. 

If I was going to get one of those other four analogs I would surely save and print out the DEA page that says that its not controlled under the CSA, just in case they get rid of the page later and charge you under the CSA.

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InvisibleWorldWideWInton
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10105103 - 04/04/09 12:34 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for your help i read the part on the cp, 47497 and it states, "CP 47,497 is a synthetic cannabinoid agonist without the classical cannabinoid chemical structure." i am assuming it wouldnt be an analog. i am going to print that page off and order some cp 55940 asap.  im sure if i got caught with the powder in a vial i would be arrested and taken to jail and charged whit poss of controlled substance but it shouldent be a hard case to beat with any lawyer.  thanks again.  now im just worried that by the time it gets through customs that it will be completly inactive.  thats a risk im willing to take.


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OfflineJESUS CLAUSE
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10129188 - 04/08/09 10:45 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Is there a list of chemicals the DEA has reviewed? I searched through some pages but cant find it, will you please post it?


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Looking for Cacti seed, if you got them PM me Please.

I have Lots of spores and cacti cuttings to trade. Also growing supplies.

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Offlineashesofman
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10129568 - 04/08/09 11:54 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You'll be fine. A friend of mine orders JWH-018 and JWH-073 all the time.

I wonder if any of these show up as a false positive on drug tests. I doubt the metabolites are the same, but who knows?

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InvisibleWorldWideWInton
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: ashesofman]
    #10129691 - 04/08/09 12:16 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i have ehard that on a dip test the chances of a false positive are higher with the JWH-xs.  what is the potency of them? CP 55490 is potent at 1mg as opposed to 30+ for THC.  the thinking there is that even if it metaboised into the same thing and 30mg THC put you to 100ng/ml then 1mg of CP 55490 would put you at 30.  that is low enough for any non-prision drug test.


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Offlineneopet nub
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10152151 - 04/12/09 01:31 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Drug tests do not test for THC.  They test for the other cannibinoids of marijuana


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Ego death from weed!

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: possible analog please help!! [Re: neopet nub]
    #10152599 - 04/12/09 02:55 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Either way, the potency is irrelevant as to the amplitude of the rsponse on a dip stick test.


Your looking for info on cross reactivity rather than potency.  Then once you find the cross reactivity you can make an educated guess based on what you figure the amount of chemical you'd be excreting.  Just cuz the potency may be 10x higher does not mean the amplitude of the dip stick test would be 10x or at all greater compared to THC ingestion.

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