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 Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,747
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I love weed and truffles
it would be good to understand who can take psychedelics and who can't wh where it's preferable and who where it's ant-preferable
I dosed because I thought I read that and there were many benefits however had a bad trip recently or what it's called but a lot of good came from it one does a lot of good with it
downer that the post is not there it would be great if it was true that any persons moderate dose of psychedelic would be preferable or drill your brain is true for all I think we should know which it is anti-preferable for
it would be nice if there was no cases where it would be anti-preferable and nice to know all cases where it's anti-preferable like those on medication etc. like 1 line or 3 classes and only those I miss a official fact like that
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with our love with our love we could save the world
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I have recently discovered that there is a kind of valve set up at the thalamus, while I previously believed that only the reticular formation was gate keeping sensory signals from entering the brain (as in sleep).
the activity of consciousness (i.e. sensation and perception/memory) is powered by a pumping action between neurons in the thalamus (many receiving sensory signals) and primary sensory neurons in the cortex. the target neurons in the cortex send back pulses to the same neurons in the thalamus at ~20hz or making a round trip 20 times per second.
I'm fairly certain that what you're describing is activity in the locus coeruleus, which projects from the pons to the thalamus, and then to the cortex. These 'pulses' are from noradrenergic axons that project from the locus coeruleus, controlling mood sharpness, fear, and emotional arousal.
Notably, psychedelics heighten the activity of the locus coeruleus in such as way that it increases novelty detection, which may explain the 'noetic quality' that is often discussed by psychedelic users and philosphers alike (including Huxley).
A 'reducing valve' is perhaps too rigid of a way of describing the effect on the locus coeruleus or similar brain structures, but for its time it was a noteworthy hypothesis that initiated further exploration of psychedelic effects and moved away from the flawed psychotomimetic paradigm (i.e. model psychoses).
Edited by Rhizomorph (05/12/21 05:33 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Quote:
Rhizomorph said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
I have recently discovered that there is a kind of valve set up at the thalamus, while I previously believed that only the reticular formation was gate keeping sensory signals from entering the brain (as in sleep).
the activity of consciousness (i.e. sensation and perception/memory) is powered by a pumping action between neurons in the thalamus (many receiving sensory signals) and primary sensory neurons in the cortex. the target neurons in the cortex send back pulses to the same neurons in the thalamus at ~20hz or making a round trip 20 times per second.
I'm fairly certain that what you're describing is activity in the locus coeruleus, which projects from the pons to the thalamus, and then to the cortex. These 'pulses' are from noradrenergic axons that project from the locus coeruleus, controlling mood sharpness, fear, and emotional arousal.
Notably, psychedelics heighten the activity of the locus coeruleus in such as way that it increases nonovelty detection, which may explain the 'noetic quality' that is often discussed by psychedelic users and philosphers alike (including Huxley).
A 'reducing valve' is perhaps too rigid of a way of describing the effect on the locus coeruleus or similar brain structures, but for its time it was a noteworthy hypothesis that initiated further exploration of psychedelic effects and moved away from the flawed psychotomimetic paradigm (i.e. model psychoses).
the reticular formation the north part of which you speak is definitely part of the grosser attenuation or gain in general from the body, such that in sleep it is at full attenuation, and in hyperactivity it is on full gain.
what I am more interested at the moment, and which Huxley was pointing out, is the conditioned responses that we have which control the channel flipper capability, i.e. as we zoom in on a sound, and shift to an interesting manual sensation like corduroy or crepe, then shift to track a noticed movement in the visual field, then remember something you have to do...
it is like a dance bending the mind through various areas of interest in an ongoing moment to moment basis during which some of the continuous pulsing feed is selectively inhibited to favor what we are inclined to focus our attention.
I think it is a very visceral thing, i.e. in which we steer through our thoughts and attention by squirming subtly in our body as well to bring on the "filters" that we have learned to associate plasticity wise, and not hard-wired. [I mean the inhibitory circuits are hardwired but what turns them on and off is associative, derived from a lifetime of growing into our bodies and personalities].
so - On psychedelic, the conditioned filter is may not quite kick in without making the person too tense and squirmy, and as they let go, the full mix of sensation and thinking proceeds at full tilt without resistance.
but also I am quite sure the most salient aspect of psychedelic is the extension of fading of the uninhibited looping circuits from the thalamus to the cortex and back. stacking up the frames of experiencing and screwing up the sense of time passing.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,369
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Knowing I have an alcohol in the fridge that I like the taste of, has often prevented me from drinking alcohol for the alcohol content.
In a way, at least it makes me aware of this. Imo.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (05/13/21 03:13 AM)
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 BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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The connection of watch and snake, indeed, yes.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
The connection of watch and snake, indeed, yes.
Quite a bit of that
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
The connection of watch and snake, indeed, yes.
Quite a bit of that
the garden of eden
the writhing of the snake enabled focus on every type of fruit, unlike the "stabilized" grazing of a deer or nectar drinking bee.
that is the moment that the garden is lost, but individual flavor is discovered.
human behavior became much more coiled and twisted than that of the garden dwellers.
it is not hiding in your lower chakkras, it is front and central in your mind unless you intentionally quiet it with gentle calming practice.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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So the kundalini relates just like a serpent or cobra standing up.. like an erect spine.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said:
So the kundalini relates just like a serpent or cobra standing up.. like an erect spine.
more like the kundalini, as a living feeling mental body, twists and kinks to help connect some mental forms while suppressing others.
if you can calm that serpent and keep it straight/even, you can have the experience of cessation (of monkey mind) in the stream of consciousness.
the cobra image is a wonderful version as it's opened hood connotes attentiveness and immediacy in stillness.
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Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,747
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rgvines is there a chance I can do psychedelics later?
like when it has fallen into place
when I'm free
what is the time horizon
can I look forward to lsd in like 20 years or is it a no go for the rest of my life?
how long is the break supposed to be
how long am I supposed to go without lsd?
how long will it be anti-perferable
are there psychedelics in the gnome world I can take?
I think you said you had to go 8 years without it so I understand it's extreme
but with unlimited spiritual prospects and becoming a person depending on who one is there must be a way I can take psychedelic
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with our love with our love we could save the world
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Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,747
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if only I had meditated more eh
milarepa: meditate all your lives
its like I turned orange to yellow
like I finally made it
if only I had meditated every day from I was 19
then I could do psychedelics now
or earlier
10 - 19
0-10
wow
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with our love with our love we could save the world
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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I deconstructed this appeal:
If I told you to wait 8 years, which I doubt I said, but if I did then that is that. (based upon info you shared with me - although only recently did you tell me what meds you are on, so was I qualified to say, maybe not!)
However, this is not really an appeal to me.
I think that this is an appeal to your own nostalgia, i.e. to your fondest recollections of feeling the drug take effect, without taking into consideration the whole of what happened to you in the past the good and the bad together.
The schizo and manic parts of your character are not exactly illness; and lately have been better integrated into your regular life than ever, although you are still taking anti-psychotic and antidepressant meds under professional supervision, and I can't be part of undermining your ongoing therapy.
Do I think one moderate taste of LSD will hurt you now? "no I do not think so!", however, you need some local support, and a trip-sitter buddy, and the indulgence is in conflict with your ongoing medical regime, which you have been following carefully, and you do not want to fall behind with that, so I can't really recommend that you go against your psychiatric guidance.
I do not know how the 12 step programs deal with the nostalgia for drug use effect - in which aspects of a person's memory about drug use are glorified - but I think as long as you are using anti-psychotics you should abstain from LSD (etc.), and try not to just remember just the good parts.
You need an honest and balanced way of looking at your predicament and your history - each person is different. What can be pleasure or wisdom for someone else could be pain and insanity for you. I would prefer that, for now, you work on understanding your nostalgia rather than starting using drugs again.
You are older, things change. everyone is different...
In my opinion, "accidentally doing LSD" just once will not hurt you, or hurt your family or society, and it may get the nostalgic obsession out of your system.
But this is just my opinion, based upon seeing your struggle. On the other hand, you are asking me my private personal opinion on a public web page, which is not an example of clear, fair and gentle thinking which are essential basics for a psychonaut to develop.
In a way, you are kind of high all the time, so it is realistically unnecessary to trip to access the layered parts of your consciousness.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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Ok so what is the reason of having a knot.. of guilt.. or suffering or anger, or fear?
It seems like it is a nefarious bundle of energy.
What effect can a knot have on the bio specimen that is the body?
Can it change body chemistry or the electromagnetic morphic field in which your body rests?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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what is the structure of the knot (of guilt (suffering (anger (fear))))?
clenching of various body parts evoke classes of related memories with similar body feelings. like navigational cramps grinding through specific souvenirs of pain.
memories bring on the clenching or relaxing of body parts when visited.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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It is like a gordian knot... It is black.. and has about categories of operation..in an attempt to untie the knot leads to disgrace and failure. And whatever the demiurgos wants.. it gets..!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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disgrace and failure are normal,
way easier to process than imagined.
carefully loosen the knots that cause trouble, good luck.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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So the idea is that massive amounts of energy can be dispersed by the untying of one knot!
Nuclear atomic mechanics..
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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which idea is that?
the incredible suppression of impulses?
instead I believe that a massive amount of energy is consumed in mind and body as we contort through the masses of concepts and impressions we have accumulated; sifting against the whole of it with muscular invocations.
this kind of idea:
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BrendanFlock
Stranger
Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,366
Last seen: 45 minutes, 16 seconds
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Ok, so I have a good question..
Why do people get knots.. and how can they work through them..?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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R.D.Lang style knots?
Shoe knots?
after dinner knots?
honestly each one is it's own special challenge to be calm and present and gently working away.
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