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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10061327 - 03/28/09 06:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
I've given this talk to many, even groups of people, at my university.





I've given this talk to cops, it's led many to look deeper into the
issue, there's still those that choose to remain ignorant...

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InvisibleFurrowedBrow
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10061937 - 03/28/09 07:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

and that's exactly what we all should be doing.  :gethigh:


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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10062443 - 03/28/09 08:59 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Bravo man, bravo  :gangsta:

I'm going to repost this in a few places :thumbup:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: Ferris]
    #10062540 - 03/28/09 09:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Same here :thumbup:

With credit of course


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Invisibletiny_rabid_birds
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10063491 - 03/29/09 12:07 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

well done!  very good read.  i commend you on your talent and effort.

though i must say, this guy made some good points too.


Quote:

ShadowSD said:

They were laughing about the obviously fixed.  Internet poll, not at pot smoking itself (otherwise Obama would have been laughing at himself).  Obama isn't just someone who smoked just once or twice in his life, he has more personal experience with it than any President we've ever had, and I don't see any evidence that he personally believes people should go to jail for it; I'm a daily smoker myself, but if I were President in this environment of immediate health care, energy, and economic problems, I wouldn't be bringing up the issue in the first six months, because I actually would want to succeed.  Bringing it up now would be counterproductive.

But hey, the pessimistic assumption wins the day here, of course - it wouldn't be dailykos otherwise :smile:




Quote:

ShadowSD said:

Yes, but things must be done in some order. I do not think bringing up legalization before further addressing his campaign promises on universal health care, energy, and the economy would bode particularly well for Obama or for legalization.  (However, if we are substantially into the term of a popular Obama Presidency where the major issues have been substantially addressed to some degree, and legalization has not been brought up, I'll be singing a very different tune.)





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Offlineozsultan
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10064211 - 03/29/09 03:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for sharing supernovasky! It was a great read and I commend you for furthering the effort to inform those who are still blind to the facts at hand. :thumbup:


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10064408 - 03/29/09 05:28 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i thought this was going to be about how people should stop smoking so much weed.


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OfflineMagishrum
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: truekimbo2]
    #10064757 - 03/29/09 08:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Almost anything you do nowadays supposedly puts you at risk of getting cancer. Hell, don't even think about stepping outside of your house into the sunlight without sunblock on. Then there's marijuana, which is believed by many to be cancer-causing and horrible for your health when actually THC has ANTI-carcinogenic properties.
How...ironic? :stoned2:

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: Magishrum]
    #10065242 - 03/29/09 10:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:14 AM)

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InvisibleFurrowedBrow
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10065651 - 03/29/09 11:51 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Let's not forget he's a politician.  He's got a Karl Rove whispering in his ear too.  I doubt that guy is telling him to steer toward this debate.  It's a controversial subject and we are doing what we need to do to get the truth out there.  I think as long as we keep doing that it will come with time.  I agree with ShadowSD about the wait, although 6 months seems arbitrary.  Alcohol prohibition wasn't repealed until more than 4 years after the stock market crash.  It's not going to be something that gets resolved for a while longer.  Personally, I understand why the question was asked at that townhall event last week, I just wish it would have been presented in different context.  What politician with real power (and a concern for re-election) would say, Yeah, let's legalize weed to save the economy.  None.  I just thought that we should have voted up a better question.  I can't blame Obama for understanding and playing the system.  I can blame him for unnecessarily mocking the IDEA though.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: FurrowedBrow]
    #10065668 - 03/29/09 11:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:14 AM)

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10066170 - 03/29/09 12:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

At least the Dems are safe in the knowledge that the GOP alienates that same demographic far more.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: Ferris]
    #10066246 - 03/29/09 01:01 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:14 AM)

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Offlinetpihkal
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10067022 - 03/29/09 02:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:awesome: article has been linked to my facebook, I'm trying to find more places I can throw up some links.  I may have to print that off and pass it around some as well.


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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: tpihkal]
    #10067168 - 03/29/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:14 AM)

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Offlinetpihkal
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10067239 - 03/29/09 02:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:headbanger:  That's great, I'd like to spread it more if I can, come to think of it, I have an account at bluelight, I'll head over there too.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: tiny_rabid_birds]
    #10070892 - 03/29/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I like the post.


You don't overstate the position, and focus on what, sadly, the majority of the population cares about: marijuana giving you cancer or turning you into a maniac.  Obviously it is morally reprehensible for locking up or stealing from someone who causes no harm, but the public doesn't care about philosophy- the debate seems quite utilitarian- in the worst of ways.


I like how you didn't repeat the myths that cause marijuana has a high LD50 it won't hurt you or whatever.  Marijuana is clearly a very safe substance, but people like to make silly claims that hurt the cause, so I'm glad you refrained from easily disproven claims that could weaken the impact.




The testicular cancer study that didn't control for tobacco use is all too common as a mean to prop up ridiculous prohibitionist claims.  I've looked at many, and the news and political coverage of them is disgusting.  Obviously marijuana users are more likely to be users of other drugs, and some of those drugs and means of ingestion, such as tobacco, have serious problems associated with them.



Thanks for the good read.  I was presently surprised not to find a bunch of gibberish about marijuana being impossible to die from or other, incorrect, irrelevancies.

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OfflineAnonymousRabbit
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. [Re: johnm214]
    #10073231 - 03/30/09 10:56 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

.


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Edited by AnonymousRabbit (05/19/22 12:16 AM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: AnonymousRabbit]
    #10073829 - 03/30/09 01:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

supernovasky said:
John, I really appreciate your comment here. I understand that you seem to play the devils advocate a lot on this issue, but to hear a compliment from you actually means quite a bit to me with respect to the facts and information behind marijuana. I think we're making a LOT of progress lately, and if anything happens it will all happen really quickly IMO. Once the first state legalizes, it'll force everyone to take a position pretty fast.






Well thanks for the kudos.


I don't generally take positions as the devil's advocate on this issue, though people often think my arguments mean I'm against legalization or something which is incorrect.  I just think it is harmful to overstate a position as contentious as this.  People already believe nonsense from teh government and culture and if you state something that can be disproven the whole argument appears tenuous.

I also don't like how some folks try to clearly delineate marijuana's harm potential from other drugs.  I just don't see a bright line, like the folks who claim marijuana doesn't produce withdrawal or addiction or something do, and think locking someone up who hasn't harmed anyone and branding them a criminal is wrong.    You didn't falsely claim some difference between marijuana and other "drugs", which I liked.


And yeah, I'll have to read that testicular cancer study.  That's one of the biggest problems in teh debate.  The lay public will believe "science" only to them science is what the news says.  They make no effort to understand statistics or the difference between data and conclusions, and as a result there's a number of bullshit refutations of the legalization argument premised upon studies of the type you mention.  It should be obvious to everyone that the population who smokes marijuana and the population who doesn't is quite different, especially at younger ages, and studies that only look at teh differences between the two are almost never going to uncover an effect of marijuana smoking, in my opinion.


I really like how you touched on the problem of third variables in studies, briefly.  Its amongst the most damaging, superficially, things in teh public debate.  All you need to do is read a newspaper account of a study and then read the actual study.  With drugs its almost always sensationalized.


Read this news article and then read further in the thread where I quote from the study.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7796388

Its ridiculous what the headline and tone of the article is when you actually read the study.  Total 180.  The study seemed to show marijuana being maybe a bit safer (though this is specifically disclaimed in the study) but the article acts like its 20 times more toxic- never mentioning they tested one grow of marijuana, for example, or that marijuana was lower in most chemicals including the major carcinogenic compounds.

That is the kind of nonsense that must be fought, as people read articles like that and think they are getting science rather than propoganda.


This post got longer than I expected.  Good job on mentioning statistical problems though :thumbup:

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InvisibleFerris
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Re: Shroomery, lets have an honest talk about marijuana [Re: johnm214]
    #10073905 - 03/30/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

just don't see a bright line, like the folks who claim marijuana doesn't produce withdrawal or addiction or something do, and think locking someone up who hasn't harmed anyone and branding them a criminal is wrong




Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your statement here.  I've always been one to believe that the ethical justifications of law enforcement arise from protecting society from the individual.  I've never heard an effective argument for protecting individuals from themselves.


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