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OfflinePhred
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The sound of silence
    #1005265 - 10/30/02 07:03 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I've been waiting for one of the Saddam supporters who frequent this forum to comment about two interesting developments which were given wide coverage in the American news media, not tucked away or "censored" in any way:

1) Saddam's emptying of Iraq's prisons

2) His expulsion of foreign journalists.

Anyone care to discuss?

pinky


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1005330 - 10/30/02 08:33 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

If I am opposed to the war on Iraq, does that make me a supporter of Hussein?

If it takes more, maybe you could elaborate. Or better yet, name some names!


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1005587 - 10/30/02 11:17 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

As has already been said, just because I am against an unjust war in Iraq does not mean I support Saddam.

As a supporter of war in Iraq would you care to comment on:

1) Israels flouting of UN resolutions (one of the main excuses for attacking Iraq)
2) N Koreas convention of the treaty on Nuclear proliferation (an UNPROVEN excuse for attacking Iraq)

Why are these nations not being targeted in the war on terrorism aka the  :grin:war on people who happen to be living where all the oil we want is!

I know you may not be a supporter of war in iraq but employing your logic you must be! 


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1005857 - 10/30/02 12:37 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, nobody here is a Saddam supporter. How could you spend so much time arguing with the people here, and not even understand their point of view. If you can't understand the opposing point of view, you don't have much right to argue against it.

Anyways, I'm watching Bush be even more of a dick. The more Saddam does to comply, the more Bush calls it a trick. Is there anything Saddam could possibly do to prevent an attack? It doesn't really look like it. It seems a lot like Bush is ready to attack whatever Saddam does.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1005989 - 10/30/02 01:05 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

It seems to me that by emptying the prisons and getting rid of foreign journalists he is preparing for a war that he (and the rest of the world) knows is coming...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006005 - 10/30/02 01:08 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

If it makes you all feel better, substitute "peaceniks" or "appeasers" or "diplomatic solution favorers" or some other phrase for "Saddam supporters". Makes no nevermind to me. I just find it interesting that people get all upset whenever someone like Innvertigo uses a mild term like "libbies" or "lefties", yet these same people have no hesitation branding him (or me) a racist or a fascist or a warmonger or a Nazi.

Note that I wrote "Anyone care to discuss?" Apparently no one does.

*edit* Except Rono.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (10/30/02 01:09 PM)


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006015 - 10/30/02 01:09 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I do, I do!


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Rono]
    #1006058 - 10/30/02 01:20 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

you can't use the word Oil at all......GO!!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1006064 - 10/30/02 01:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

How about you just read my previous comment....the word "oil" isn't mentioned at all. :wink:

Does anyone disagree with my assessment that he is obviously preparing for war?...


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Rono]
    #1006100 - 10/30/02 01:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I find it interesting that the vast majority of the threads in this forum are critical of the USA and capitalism -- so much so that we might as well rename it the "Hate America" forum, thereby conforming with the "truth in advertising" regulations. One of the themes repeated over and over again here is that the American media is censored, or biased, or doesn't give the whole picture, and that Americans are either too stupid or too disinterested to search out other supposedly complete, unbiased, uncensored sources.

But, come on, folks! These two items are BIG news! When is the last time a country released EVERY criminal in their penal system? Not just political dissidents, but EVERYBODY (except foreign nationals) from rapists to arsonists to embezzlers to murderers to confidence men?

When is the last time a country expelled ALL foreign journalists? Do any of you champions of "unbiased, uncensored, complete" news coverage think that we will now get a MORE accurate picture of the situation in Iraq? Much as some of you distrust CNN, you can't deny they are the only news organization with a permanent presence in Iraq. From now on, no news teams will be allowed to report anything about Iraq unless all of the employees are Iraqi except ONE, who is allowed to be incountry for no longer than ten days at a time.

Rono, I must be getting dense in my old age. How does releasing burglars back into the general population improve a country's readiness for war?

pinky


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006119 - 10/30/02 01:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Easy...By releasing the people in prison, he is attempting to rally public support for himself, and hopefully provide more resistance against the U.S.... He knows his days in power are numbered, he has nothing left to lose... (of course that is just my take on the situation, but it seems pretty obvious to me) And he didn't release EVERYONE...apparently all but the most violent offenders were released.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (10/30/02 01:38 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Rono]
    #1006168 - 10/30/02 01:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

By releasing the people in prison, he is attempting to rally public support for himself...

Hmm. I guess the Arab mind works differently from mine then. I can't see myself supporting a leader who released a bunch of violent skells onto the streets. I realize that in Iraq, the majority of the prison population was probably composed of political dissidents rather than rapists and murderers, just as in the US a huge chunk of the cons are in for dope busts rather than violent crimes, but even so...

There still must have been a significant number of folks released who are a genuine danger to society at large. Or maybe not... maybe all the really violent ones were executed rather than imprisoned.

What's your take on the expulsion of all foreign journalists?

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006170 - 10/30/02 01:42 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I find it interesting that the vast majority of the threads in this forum are critical of the USA and capitalism

Strange, I thought the majority of the people posting here were far right-wingers. Maybe they just make the most noise!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Xlea321]
    #1006196 - 10/30/02 01:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

The majority? Far from it. The only anti-statists I can think of would be myself, Wingnutx, Innvertigo, Evolving, and Railgun. Oh, and Teonan, but he is a recent addition and certainly not a frequent contributor. That makes half a dozen vs, what... several dozen statists?

pinky


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006210 - 10/30/02 01:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

In reply to:

Iraqi television showed men leaving a prison carrying their belongings in plastic shopping bags and chanting: "We sacrifice our blood and souls for Saddam."



Source

As far as the expulsion of foreign Journalists..that's a bit trickier. But I'm guessing that Saddam feels that some Foreign Journalists are a threat to National Security right now (I said "some" because he is not expelling ALL foreign journalists)...and it would only make sense to me to get rid of them...Why would you want the enemy to be able to turn on the six'o'clock news and watch your troop movements?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (10/30/02 02:25 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: The sound of silence [Re: Phred]
    #1006299 - 10/30/02 02:09 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i can't comment on the release of prisoners... but i know for a fact Jeremy Scahill, an invetigative journalist and producer for democracy now was still in iraq as of yesterday...

as far as hating america... hmmmm... i would imagine everyone loves the "concept of america" ... manipulated capitalism is terrible... the way capitalism is employed globally is destructive...

enron owned over 70% of the clean water resources in certain area's of the globe... indigenous people were deprived basic rights of access to that water... that type of capitalism mocks humanity... it would be difficult to sway u... ur comfortable with ur own perception... something has to click inside of u....

my grandfather died on a french beach with hundreds of other men many years ago... what did they give their lives for? not anything that exists today... futhermore, my grandfather was part native indian... his heritage is desecrated each day by a system bent on profits over all else...

the older i get, the more i'm convinced another way is needed... u obviously are either very comfortable in life ( i am also) or a bit uneasy regarding change...

change is needed.... the savings and loan scandal from years back and the fact that 7 trillion dollars disappeared from pension funds during the past 2+ years in the form of "profit taking" are 2 clear examples of social inequities... check out argentina... do your homework and you'll see connected businessmen buying national resources for 10 cents or less on the dollar...


things that make ya go hmmmmm ....

u tell me why saddam is releasing his criminals... u obviousluy have an opinion on it... i'd love to hear it... take care...


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Offlinefoghorn
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Anonymous]
    #1006730 - 10/30/02 04:16 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

to answer pink's initial question, (sorry i dodged the rest of ur posts)...

A) Saddam's general amnesty bolsters Iraqi support/unity within the country, which gives off the idea that Saddam wants "every man he can get" in the upcoming war, Iraqis stand united etc... gives the impression that Saddam is preparing for war, almost provoking the situation, while America 'doesn't want to, but HAS to' goto war'

B) same idea, he is expulsing journalists in his country because he is preparing for a war, doesnt want reporters snooping around while he's setting up his guns or whatever

this one is bit more interesting because reports of the expulsed journalists were conflicted, many journalists still remain in Iraq and the Iraqi Gov't denies ever expulsing them in the first place

Both of these incidents give off the impression that Iraq is preparing, and wants a war with the USA; it almost gives the impression that Iraq is provoking the situation, something the American media would have a pretty good time with...

I think thats the kind of answer you were looking for...

i dont know if expulsing is a word though

***

upon reading the rest of the posts i see Rono has already touched on this, sorry for any repetition

***

The 'violent' prisoners were only granted amnesty upon approval of the victim's families


Edited by foghorn (10/30/02 04:25 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Anonymous]
    #1006735 - 10/30/02 04:16 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

****enron owned over 70% of the clean water resources in certain area's of the globe... indigenous people were deprived basic rights of access to that water... that type of capitalism mocks humanity****

key word being "owned". Enron is not a fair nor good example of capitalism gone array(sp). What they did was criminal, and to use them as an example in that way is incorrect.

****my grandfather died on a french beach with hundreds of other men many years ago... ****

you're grandfather gave his life for what America used to stand for (individual rights) before the PC "everybody have a group hug" crowd diluted it with a society full of pantywasts. Your grandfather was the last of the trully respected era in american time.

****futhermore, my grandfather was part native indian... his heritage is desecrated each day by a system bent on profits over all else... ****

bad comparison. in the same breath we can blame every country for enslaving and killing their natives, Britain being one of the most horrible towards its lower class ie: natives

****his heritage is desecrated each day by a system bent on profits over all else... ****

noone is desecrating his memory but those that are against individual dreedom.

****the older i get, the more i'm convinced another way is needed... ****

i don't think you'll get an argument from anyone on this board about this but what would you suggest? Libbies and republicrates (not meaning you) like to say "we need a change" and never do a thing until election day comes and say it again "we need a change"....how many times do you think Social security reform will be brought up before a change is actually made?

****the savings and loan scandal from years back and the fact that 7 trillion dollars disappeared from pension funds ****

you may want to check your numbers again 7 trillion is approx what out deficit is.(i think)

****check out argentina****

the last i heard, their economy was heading south...

****u tell me why saddam is releasing his criminals... u obviousluy have an opinion on it... ****

that wasn't his point. his point was if our media is censored why was this reported


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1006750 - 10/30/02 04:21 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

You don't think your media is censored?...How Tragic...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The sound of silence [Re: Rono]
    #1006857 - 10/30/02 04:50 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i don't think it's as censored as you think...sorta like the bbc


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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