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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Why evolution isn't a scientific theory.
    #10051533 - 03/27/09 06:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Or so philosopher of science Michael Ruse proclaims:

Quote:

The battle of evolution and creation in America is a debate of culture, not science, said one of the leading authorities on the history and philosophy of Darwinism evolutionary theory.

Michael Ruse, a philosophy professor at Florida State University examined the history of the American evolution-creation debate Tuesday in his lecture titled “The Evolution-Creation Controversy: A Very American Story.”

Ruse said a division exists in American society between two groups of theorists: evolutionists, also called the “Brights,” and Intelligent Design Theorists.

Both of these groups think that to accept one belief, they must reject the other, Ruse said.

For example, evolutionists think that to believe in evolution, they must reject religion, and vise versa.

“What makes this discussion very interesting is that we’ve got thinking people on both sides,” Ruse said.

The question then is why people have this debate between the two sides, Ruse said.

To explain the origins of the debate, Ruse gave a history of the evolution-creation debate, starting with the early years of Christianity.

Ruse continued with a history of the life of Charles Darwin and the development of his theory of evolution, which led to his publishing of “The Origin of Species” in 1859.

Several other events led to the religious battle that began in America about Darwin’s theories, he said.

Ruse said one of these events was a movement started by Thomas Henry Huxley, a professor from London. Huxley started summer schools in the 19th century for teachers and instructed them in new disciplines of science, including evolution. Huxley promoted evolution as the new religion of the time, pushing it against Christianity, Ruse said.

“This sort of thing is the kind of way evolution got hijacked, if you like, in the 19th century,” Ruse said. “I don’t think it was hijacked for bad reasons. I don’t think Huxley was an evil person; I’m not saying that. I’m saying, though, that he got an agenda and evolution was being used in this agenda, not as a regular science, but as a kind of metaphysic kind of ideology.”

Other occurrences in America caused the creation-evolution battle to grow, including the Second Great Awakening, which caused people to read and interpret the Bible literally, and the split of the North and South after the Civil War, which caused the people of the South to use the issue of evolution as part of their reasoning to hate the people of the North.

Ruse said evolution wasn’t and isn’t now, a scientific theory, and people are not worrying about the scientific issues of it like fossil records.

“What they’re seeing is evolution is half of a particular ideology that one half wants to endorse and the other half loathes,” he said.




Jenny Colton
Senior Staff Writer for TruthBook Religious News Blog

Also of interest is Dr. Ruse's book Mystery of Mysteries : Is Evolution a Social Construction?  According to Dr. Ruse, evolution is more of a social contruction than a scientific theory.  It the book he takes on two philosophers of science, Kuhn and Popper.  Could he be correct?  A review by a reader is helpful:

Quote:

Anyone who calls himself or herself a Skeptic should consider this required reading. If evolutionary biology is your thing, or if you are at all interested in how science works, or if you are interested in the philosophy of science, order it now.




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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10051601 - 03/27/09 07:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I don't necessarily disagree with his point, though I do tend to be skeptical of it, but no where in that article did he even begin to explain why it's a social construct. The only thing he said was it originally was used in opposition to intelligent design to push an agenda, which doesn't mean much at all.

On a related note, I never understood why it can't be more accepted that both ID and evolution could be possible. Why could we have not simply been created to evolve?

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: krypto2000]
    #10051666 - 03/27/09 07:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Evolution is the best working theory we have on this issue IMO.

The fact that we "need" divine intervention as a cause of our being here has never had evidential support as far as I know.

Many humans like to forget or ignore the implications of the facts that like most all other "lesser" living things, we eat, shit, fuck, stink, pick and scratch, decay, die, etc. The natural processes in our bodies are mimicked throughout nature.

It's the fragile personality structure that frantically needs to be different IMO. "How could it be that we are here only to die without a special purpose beyond what is evident":hissyfit::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051681 - 03/27/09 07:54 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I personally never for one second ignored the fact that I am basically an advanced :monkeydance:.


It feels that most people around me do, though.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10051690 - 03/27/09 07:57 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup: Even "advanced" is up for debate depending on your criteria.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051697 - 03/27/09 08:00 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think that our ability to compose and appreciate music is but one of the many evidences of us being the most advanced species on this planet.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10051710 - 03/27/09 08:03 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

And the way we have learned to torture and cause suffering for our pleasure. Our constant anxiety and paranoia, ability to ignore facts and believe in non existent entities and kill other humans in their behalf our physical fragility compared to most other creatures.:thumbup: and on and on.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051738 - 03/27/09 08:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

A lot of those things are born from our 'intelligence', or over-active minds, which some say compensate for our fragile bodies.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10051746 - 03/27/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

The reverse being true for animals. There physical prowess compensates for other lacks.

Actually if we are talking survival abilities, I go for bacteria and viruses.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051760 - 03/27/09 08:16 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Is the claim, "Human fragility is the result of society.", extremely presumptuous and foolish, in your opinion? I've always wondered why humans are so much weaker than some of the other animals...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051772 - 03/27/09 08:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Actually if we are talking survival abilities, I go for bacteria and viruses.




Is this true for the individual specimen, or the species as a whole? I wouldn't know because I'm not exceptionally educated on bacteria and viruses...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10051807 - 03/27/09 08:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Is the claim, "Human fragility is the result of society.", extremely presumptuous and foolish, in your opinion? I've always wondered why humans are so much weaker than some of the other animals...




Hard to say. All evidence points to use being weaker and slower. Other wise who needs a spear?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Icelander]
    #10051824 - 03/27/09 08:29 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Are we the only species that uses a separate apparatus as a weapon to kill other creatures?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10052102 - 03/27/09 09:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Are we the only species that uses a separate apparatus as a weapon to kill other creatures?




Monkeys throw rocks and shit, they use sticks to pick ants out of holes, and not too recently there was a picture taken of a monkey (gorilla?) using a stick to fish.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: krypto2000]
    #10052135 - 03/27/09 09:32 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Shit, I didn't know about monkeys (gorillas?) using a stick to fish, that's pretty cool...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10052173 - 03/27/09 09:43 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Evolutionary theory and the uses thereof constitute one terrible mess. I'm sorry to see so many minds trapped inside of it (and usually poor understandings of it; this includes scientists and philosophers).

Unfortunately most people I speak to immediately get flustered about my criticism of evolution and think I'm a creationist. As if critique of science were dogmatic!

About the article. Michael Ruse is OK...in hell.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10052174 - 03/27/09 09:43 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yah, it was a recent discovery, I don't think anyone else did before either. I wanna say it happened within this past year, but my sense of time is so off I can't be sure.

I also don't remember if they used it as a spear, or what. Memory tells me that's what happened though, they just found a sharpish stick, hung on a branch over the water (I remember that from the pic) and stabbed em.

edit: here ya go

Quote:

A male orangutan, clinging precariously to overhanging branches, flails the water with a pole, trying desperately to spear a passing fish.

It is the first time one has been seen using a tool to hunt.



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: krypto2000]
    #10052177 - 03/27/09 09:45 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Imagine what weapons that and other species may use...


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: krypto2000]
    #10052366 - 03/27/09 10:18 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)


Yah, it was a recent discovery, I don't think anyone else did before either. I wanna say it happened within this past year, but my sense of time is so off I can't be sure.


Were they fly fishing? Maybe that "stick" was an Orvis bamboo fly rod. One rich ass fucking gorilla.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Why evolution isn't a scientific theory. [Re: Poid]
    #10052645 - 03/27/09 11:05 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Why is that cool?

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