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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Mycoremediation References
    #9993119 - 03/18/09 02:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hello fellow cult members.  Hee hee, ha ha, pun intended.

Recently my attention has been attracted by the concepts of mycoremediation.  I just ordered a copy of Mycelium Running and am eagerly awaiting it's arrival.  In the meantime, I've been compiling other resources on the topic.  I have been tossing around the idea of starting a business revolving around ecological restoration with an emphasis on mycoremediation and phytoremediation.

So, if any of you out there are obsessive archivers like myself, I would be very grateful to be able to vastly expand my current collection of articles, journals, books, etc. regarding the fields of mycoremediation, bioremediation, and phytoremediation.

I am very serious about furthering the current knowledge base on mycoremediation.  Any information sent my way will definitely be of benefit to the community at large.


On a side note:  I mentioned that I am an avid archiver.  The mycoremediation section is just a fragment of my archive; "The Search for the Self".  I would be more than willing to share some of it's contents with anyone able to help me expand it.  I will be releasing it in it's entirety at some point in the future.  The contents are too massive to attempt to summarize it's basic layout, so I'll simply ask for contributions to the fields that I am currently adding on to:

Body--->The Branches of Science--->Biology, Chemistry, Medicine/Health, Mycology, Biotechnology, Physics. 

Mind--->Psychoactives--->Tryptamines, Phenethylamines, Opiates.

I am also expanding my section on essential oils and tinctures.


I apologize if this is the incorrect forum to post this on, please feel free to move it if need be.

If you are interested in obtaining an outline of the archive and helping me obtain sources of information to compile and share with the community, either reply on this thread or drop me a PM.

P.S.  It's good to be back, friends.


--------------------
In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #9994398 - 03/18/09 11:19 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

You might look into anaerobic bacterial cleanup also.  It's been used to clean up a lot of hazardous sites for cheap.  Basically it involves spraying a lot of sugar water onto the soil and then covering it with a sheet of plastic.  This provides a food source and anaerobic environment which creates a huge bloom of anaerobic bacteria which metabolizes all sorts of toxins and heavy metals.

Good luck with your research.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: fastfred]
    #9994917 - 03/18/09 01:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I have been tossing around the idea of starting a business revolving around ecological restoration with an emphasis on mycoremediation




My understanding is the reason nobody is doing this as a business is because Stamets and his corporate partners have a patent on the process.

I use my spent substrates to clean up the e-coli along my creek bank caused by the cattle that are roaming free in this open-range area.  Our state department of ecology has come out and taken readings, and they're monitoring the process.  In addition, I'm working closely with the county conservation district to document what I'm doing, and they're taking regular readings on water quality both on my property and downstream.

I'm setting up a mushroom farm on my 20 acres which borders national forest on two sides, and plan to release my spent substrates to ranchers in the county to line the creek banks with.  Oyster mushroom mycelium in particular munch e-coli like candy.  If preliminary results hold up, we'll be taking the data to the State of Washington to obtain a grant to go large scale.  As long as you don't call it mycoremediation and sell the substrates, you don't get into patent infringement problems.

In addition, my spent oyster straw substrates make an excellent cattle feed, surpassing in protein content what the feedlots use.  We're doing testing on them with my neighbors herd to monitor weight gain on the livestock with the possible intent to purchase a machine to grind the substrates and compress them into pellet form for sale to feedlots.

The nearest town to me, Republic, WA is giving me all the paper I can use from the recycling bins, so I'm also using this to grow mushrooms, and the spent substrates make excellent soil conditioner and fertilizer, so this is another market for products beyond just the mushrooms themselves. 

If any of you live in or near eastern Washington State, I'll be doing a workshop at the Ferry County Conservation Fair in Republic, WA on April 18th at 12 noon, and will be displaying some of the things I'm working on.  I'll also outline my plans for a mushroom farmers co-op, which will be the first of its kind in the country.  I want to supply spawn and inoculated substrates to local farmers and let them grow the actual mushrooms, which the co-op will then buy back to take to market.  I want to get local farmers to grow the rye we'll need for spawn, and then the straw will be used for bulk substrates.  We also have a fairly large Poplar plantation nearby that was started to provide wood to the pulp plant for the Seattle newspaper, which recently shut down.  Now they don't have a market for the hardwood, so this could be another way to keep local jobs.
RR


--------------------
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OfflineBrennus
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9995195 - 03/18/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

That's some pretty hefty work, RR. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I hope you record your presentation and post the video online. :thumbup:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: Brennus]
    #9996010 - 03/18/09 03:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I hope you record your presentation




Channel 4 from Spokane, WA is supposed to be there, so I'm hoping they'll do a spot on it, which will also be available on their website.  The presentation is over an hour long, so it would be hard to post online without breaking it down in a bunch of parts.  I might think about that though.  Thanks.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9997019 - 03/18/09 07:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I didn't know that Stamets had patented the process.  Seems a little strange for someone who's trying to "...Help Save the Planet".  But then again, I don't know the man, and I highly respect his publications, so I suppose I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I was hoping to cover many different aspects of ecological restoration in a sort of multidisciplinary attempt to restore/improve the quality of our water/soil/air.

So if anyone happens to have information on any field in remediation, I would greatly appreciate any help on compiling a reliable resource.


--------------------
In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.


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InvisibleInfiniteOhms
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9997330 - 03/18/09 07:51 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

I hope you record your presentation




Channel 4 from Spokane, WA is supposed to be there, so I'm hoping they'll do a spot on it, which will also be available on their website.  The presentation is over an hour long, so it would be hard to post online without breaking it down in a bunch of parts.  I might think about that though.  Thanks.
RR



Wow RR, your projects never cease to amaze me. If you ever want a place to post longer videos online you might check out http://www.archive.org/details/opensource_movies I dont think there is any limit on size/length and you can select whatever license you choose.


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OfflineBrennus
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #9997450 - 03/18/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DiMiTriSouljah said:
I didn't know that Stamets had patented the process.  Seems a little strange for someone who's trying to "...Help Save the Planet".  But then again, I don't know the man, and I highly respect his publications, so I suppose I should give him the benefit of the doubt.





I can see where you're coming from, but in my opinion, you can't really fault the man. It would be a travesty for him to spend years doing research on mycoremedial techniques only for someone else to employ his techniques (and make a fortune) without giving him credit. There's actually a passage in Mycelium Running where Stamets describes having to actually give numerical names to strains he was using for government research - if he used the species names, the government could theoretically use his work without compensation since it's hard to patent a specific 'species'.

Just my opinion. I'm sure others will chime in.


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Invisibleshroomzey
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9998930 - 03/19/09 01:10 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

I hope you record your presentation




Channel 4 from Spokane, WA is supposed to be there, so I'm hoping they'll do a spot on it, which will also be available on their website.  The presentation is over an hour long, so it would be hard to post online without breaking it down in a bunch of parts.  I might think about that though.  Thanks.
RR




I second that.  Too bad I don't live in your state, I'd probably take a road trip with a video camera just get the information out there.  Best of luck and keep us all updated!


--------------------

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Find a respected member of the community and study them.  I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #9999277 - 03/19/09 04:28 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

DiMiTriSouljah said:
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I didn't know that Stamets had patented the process.  Seems a little strange for someone who's trying to "...Help Save the Planet".  But then again, I don't know the man, and I highly respect his publications, so I suppose I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I was hoping to cover many different aspects of ecological restoration in a sort of multidisciplinary attempt to restore/improve the quality of our water/soil/air.

So if anyone happens to have information on any field in remediation, I would greatly appreciate any help on compiling a reliable resource.



If you don't patent it, someone else can, and you are out of luck. See the smuckers corp with their pb&j uncrustables, they made the patent even though this other place was doing it for years before they started. One day they were issued a notice to cease or be sued, and they held the patent, and therefore held all the power under law.


--------------------
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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: Lennyk]
    #10001453 - 03/19/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

> they held the patent, and therefore held all the power under law.

Patents can be challenged at any time.  In order to patent something it must be "novel", which means that they have to be the first people doing it. 

So the patent in your example isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Further, when you patent something you have to disclose the "prior art", which means that you have to disclose everything you know about similar things other people have done.  If they didn't properly disclose that others were producing similar products then that's another reason that their patent would be invalid.


Anyone can start a business using Stamets' processes.  A patent doesn't stop anyone from using those ideas.  They simply have to pay royalties to Stamets.

The way this usually works is that you just start using a patented idea.  Or you could also contact Stamets and negotiate the royalties ahead of time.  Anyhow, you use his ideas and make money.  Now if/when Stamets finds out that you are infringing his patents he will contact you and tell you that you are infringing his patents and you owe him royalties.  He'll want your business records and it will be easy for him to get them from you.  At that point you can negotiate the royalties, you can challenge his patent, or you can simply make him sue you recover the royalties.  If you decide one of the latter two you'll end up in court.  If he wins the judge will award him royalties based on how much money you made.  You don't get punished and he doesn't get all your money, you just have to pay a percentage of your profits as a royalty to him.

That's an oversimplification as there are a lot of legal dirty tricks (like bankrupting you with legal fees), but that's generally how it goes.  It isn't worthwhile for him to sue you unless you make a lot of money to the point where it is profitable for him to sue you for the royalties.


-FF


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: fastfred]
    #10007542 - 03/20/09 12:20 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I was wondering how that worked.  Thanks for the information, fastfred.


--------------------
In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #10008673 - 03/20/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I asked a lawyer about this once and he told me that standard practice in the industry is to just go ahead and infringe patents.  Likewise standard practice for patent holders is to go ahead and let people infringe your patents until/unless they make a bunch of money from it.

Because it doesn't pay to sue someone for royalties unless they've made a bunch of money.  And it doesn't make sense to pay royalties that you may never have to.  You can always settle later or let the courts work out how much you should have to pay.  In any case it usually works out well for everyone involved.  The infringer goes out and does all the work to make the money and then the patent holder gets to come in and take a chunk of it.

A LOT of patents turn out to be invalid in the end.  That's because it doesn't take much money to go out and get a bullshit patent and there's a decent chance that you'll get some money out of it and it does give you some legal room to work with as far as at least letting you use your own bullshit patents.

I think a lot of biological patents (patenting genes and whatnot) will turn out to be unenforceable, but they're already charging licensing fees and royalties.  And if you control the supply of something because everyone is scared off of producing it then you get to charge ridiculous licensing fees just by getting people to sign contracts on the basis of you being both the supplier and patentholder.


-FF


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: fastfred]
    #10016378 - 03/21/09 08:07 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'm still waiting for my copy of Mycelium Running to arrive, but I have heard that it opens a lot of doors into new ways of thinking about remediation.  I'm hoping that I can use the models provided in that book, along with the various other books/journals that I have read to produce a procedure that would be uniquely mine.  Is it possible that they can sue me for utilizing data from the book to create my own technique...especially if it is coupled with developments from other fields in remedial sciences?  I'm anything but a lawyer, but it just seems unlikely to me that they could sue me for that.

Am I interpreting what you're saying correctly, fastfred?  Am I only liable if I use his specific techniques/strains?  Or am I capable of creating an adaptation, which will in all probability, look little like the methods that he has patented?

I am really just interested in creating a cost-effective technique for the detoxification of the water and soil in my area (for now...I hope to find effective enough techniques to expand the information and help other areas of the world to restore a healthy environment to live and grow in.).  I live in a fairly poor area and the soil and water quality is decreasing exponentially.  Cancer rates are increasing.  I feel that there is a correlation and if I can utilize my knowledge of biology, chemistry and mycology to help as many people as I can, I will feel like I have taken my life one step closer towards the fulfillment of my goals.

Any journals/books/articles that anyone has a copy of that relates to ecological restoration in any way would be highly appreciated.

Thanks for your time, everyone.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #10016875 - 03/21/09 09:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Is it possible that they can sue me for utilizing data from the book to create my own technique...especially if it is coupled with developments from other fields in remedial sciences?




It's my understanding that knowledge can't be patented.  Only techniques.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10017729 - 03/22/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Am I only liable if I use his specific techniques/strains?  Or am I capable of creating an adaptation, which will in all probability, look little like the methods that he has patented?




Quote:

Is it possible that they can sue me for utilizing data from the book to create my own technique...




A long discussion of patent law is beyond the scope of this forum.

You have to look at the actual patent to see what it covers.  Generally if you incorporate a patent into your work you have a derivative work or a process/patent improvement, which you can yourself patent but you still have to pay royalties to the original patent holder.  Usually you can either get around a patent or else challenge it on the basis of being over broad.

> Am I only liable if I use his specific techniques/strains?

I looked for patents issued to Stamets and only found a few.  He has 2 patents on mycopesticides/mycoattractants and a couple on unrelated things.  It doesn't look like he has any on bioremediation.  The mycopesticide ones look like they are just patent improvements as he cites dozens of other patents and references on people doing the same thing.  The only real meat to the patent seems to be using myc instead of conidia/spores.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Mycoremediation References [Re: fastfred]
    #10047268 - 03/26/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the replies, everyone.  I forgot how helpful this forum can be.  A few Internet-less years left me to compiling my own "Internet"...although impressive, it pales in comparison to the ability to immediately contact a core group of the entheogen cognoscenti.


--------------------
In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.


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