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InvisibleEgo Death
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Is racism natural?
    #10044269 - 03/26/09 07:39 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

I've noticed there seems to be something in all animals that is a built in dislike of other species of animal.  It probably comes down to food as most species will eat another species but generally most are not cannibals.

Theres also the dominance thing where if one species as a certain adaptation they will tend to kill of the less fit species, maybe this is so that the inferior trait is not continued to be breed which would slow down evolution.

This brings me to the question is racism essentially something natural that our logical minds are attempting to override?

Disclaimer: to avoid personal attack, I'm not racist and do not condone violence against other creatures of any type.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044277 - 03/26/09 07:41 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Everything we do is natural.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Icelander]
    #10044286 - 03/26/09 07:45 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Ok, yeah but lets assume natural as meaning not by mans freewill but as an instinct or programmed function built into DNA.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044290 - 03/26/09 07:46 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Good question, I would only be guessing if I answered and I never guess, ever.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044297 - 03/26/09 07:48 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

It probably comes down to food as most species will eat another species but generally most are not cannibals.

Carnivores, yes...but have you seen a horse eat a pig? A cow eat a dog? That doesn't happen because those (and many) animals are herbivores.

Theres also the dominance thing where if one species as a certain adaptation they will tend to kill of the less fit species, maybe this is so that the inferior trait is not continued to be breed which would slow down evolution.

No. It would be very bad for one species to kill off its food supply. Normally that doesn't happen...the exception being in introduced predators, which aren't "natural" to the area.

This brings me to the question is racism essentially something natural that our logical minds are attempting to override?

Despite being wrong, none of what you said is applicable to "race" because it all involves inter-species interactions. Humans are all Homo sapiens sapiens, one species.

Racism among animals would be more accurately between members of the same species - say between two breeds of dog. I am unaware of any type of inter-breed conflicts, however.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleJufin
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044307 - 03/26/09 07:52 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
This brings me to the question is racism essentially something natural that our logical minds are attempting to override?




I think you are right on the money there.  A species that survives through the evolution process is a species that looks after themselves and their kind.  The species that don't face extinction.  Now that we have developed self-awareness we label this instinct racism.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Jufin]
    #10044340 - 03/26/09 08:00 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

No no no...you guys are confusing the term "species".

Inter-species conflicts are not racism. Humans are all one species.

As I pointed out above, "racism" would be better described as "intra-species" conflict...such as two breeds of dog fighting.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044342 - 03/26/09 08:01 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Wow, cool synchronicity on this ego death. (See my thread)

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Jufin]
    #10044351 - 03/26/09 08:03 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

I agree. I think it could be left over from our evolutionary heritage. So yes, it is natural. But that doesn't excuse it, of course.

trendal: consider: human tribes with more xenophobic tendencies are perhaps more likely to dominate the genepool compared to tribes that interbred.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleJufin
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: trendal]
    #10044355 - 03/26/09 08:04 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Oh I see, my mistake.  Are human's the only species with 'intra-species' conflict?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Jufin]
    #10044358 - 03/26/09 08:05 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Jufin said:
Oh I see, my mistake.  Are human's the only species with 'intra-species' conflict?




The only one that I am aware of...


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: trendal]
    #10044360 - 03/26/09 08:05 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

none of what you said is applicable to "race"




Ok, yeah I see the error in the train of thought.

I still think its part of the evolution process though.  It could just be a tribe type thing and at the current point we segregate ourselves into tribes mainly by country of origin which tends to go hand in hand with race.  We also fight in terms of towns / cities of origin and N/W/E/S etc.  For some reason humans seem to have this desire to segregate their selves into opposing groups.

I can only see the reason as being so that we have war and the winners of the war are the superior (survival of the fittest) and get to reproduce those traits.

If this is the case then the battle at the moment must be between intelligence/rational and primal instinct (war).

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: zouden]
    #10044366 - 03/26/09 08:07 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

trendal: consider: human tribes with more xenophobic tendencies are perhaps more likely to dominate the genepool compared to tribes that interbred.

True...but is that necessarily a good thing?

A small gene pool will always be weaker than a large gene pool :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: zouden]
    #10044373 - 03/26/09 08:08 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Nature does not need any excuse for behavior. If we do it and it works then it's allowed.

It's all Gods fault IMO. When we were all one race we decided to built a tower up to God. He got scared and so gave all the builders different speaking tongues so they could not work together and finish the tower of Babel. He knew if we got up to heaven we would eat all the chips and drink all the beer. :shrug: And that's the truth.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10044381 - 03/26/09 08:10 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

I can only see the reason as being so that we have war and the winners of the war are the superior (survival of the fittest) and get to reproduce those traits.

I think the history of war shows that the victorious usually father the children of the losers. It was common, I think, for one tribe to kill off all the men and children of another tribe but take the women as their own.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Edited by trendal (03/26/09 08:55 AM)

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: trendal]
    #10044399 - 03/26/09 08:17 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

The women aren't the ones doing the killing though  :tongue:  The males *fitter* genes would still be passed on.

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InvisibleJufin
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: trendal]
    #10044405 - 03/26/09 08:19 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

But now that the world revolves around money, the people/countries with the most money are the dominant ones.

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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Jufin]
    #10044482 - 03/26/09 08:47 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Racism is pretty much proven to be an entirely social construct. Otherwise, if you put two babies of different races together they would dislike each other (Which has been done and doesn't happen). Racism is not a "natural" thing and but there is also a lot more two it than "well its just a political thing" or its just "people with bad morals "etc


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: learningtofly]
    #10044713 - 03/26/09 09:50 AM (15 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Racism is pretty much proven to be an entirely social construct. Otherwise, if you put two babies of different races together they would dislike each other (Which has been done and doesn't happen). Racism is not a "natural" thing and but there is also a lot more two it than "well its just a political thing" or its just "people with bad morals "etc




and the social construct has no genetic influence?

Fear of the other seems constant. Even if 'other' is defined by the society, I think fear of other is intrinsic.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Is racism natural? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10047280 - 03/26/09 04:50 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
I've noticed there seems to be something in all animals that is a built in dislike of other species of animal.  It probably comes down to food as most species will eat another species but generally most are not cannibals.

Theres also the dominance thing where if one species as a certain adaptation they will tend to kill of the less fit species, maybe this is so that the inferior trait is not continued to be breed which would slow down evolution.

This brings me to the question is racism essentially something natural that our logical minds are attempting to override?

Disclaimer: to avoid personal attack, I'm not racist and do not condone violence against other creatures of any type.




Racism is natural. Immature, but natural nonetheless.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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